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Ceramic vs. Semi Metalic ????


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Ive been told cermamic last longer and depending on the brand has better performance. is this true and if so which brands do you guys like most? also what about rotors.. regular or slotted??

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I recently went through this and, for street use, modern OEM or Bendix pads with stock rotors are fine; these are ceramic. I have new Bendix pads and I love them, although I haven't tried them at very high speeds yet.

If you are going to do autocross or a lot of very high speed work, such as aggressive driving on the Autobahn, you don't need metallic pads or slotted rotors. However, I don't think that they will hurt anything, either, except that you will have more dust and shorter life from metallic pads.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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I recently went through this and, for street use, modern OEM or Bendix pads with stock rotors are fine; these are ceramic. I have new Bendix pads and I love them, although I haven't tried them at very high speeds yet.

If you are going to do autocross or a lot of very high speed work, such as aggressive driving on the Autobahn, you don't need metallic pads or slotted rotors. However, I don't think that they will hurt anything, either, except that you will have more dust and shorter life from metallic pads.

are there any significant benifits of slotted rotors?

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I have to tell you that I bought NAPA lifetime semi-metalic pads and a HATE them, they are grabby and they blacken my wheels.. never again. I don't think the life will be too good either, and I won't claim the lifetime guarantee... I had used OEM until these..

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I am a fan of direct replacement oem pads. I got mine from GMPartsDirect for less than $60 for the brake kit for the front, had all four pads (semi-metallic), gm brand silglyde, and new SS plates that the pads ride on. Ive got over 110,000 miles and the brakes feel like new again. I didnt even turn my old rotors (which are oem), I just put on the new pads, bled the brakes, and went out and bedded them.

I am personally not a fan of ceramics on street cars. In my experience they dont brake much (or at all) when theyre "cold". Now on the track is another story.

Jim, does your eldo have ceramics as oem?

Jonah

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I've used ceramic pads before (on a minivan) and absolutely loved them. They were Raybestos QuietStop Ceramic. Performance was on-par with the factory semi-metallics, with absolutely NO dust. It was great. I do understand that ceramic pads are not to be used in high-stress applications (like track use or towing, etc). They're apparently for street use only.

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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I am a fan of direct replacement oem pads. I got mine from GMPartsDirect for less than $60 for the brake kit for the front, had all four pads (semi-metallic), gm brand silglyde, and new SS plates that the pads ride on. Ive got over 110,000 miles and the brakes feel like new again. I didnt even turn my old rotors (which are oem), I just put on the new pads, bled the brakes, and went out and bedded them.

I am personally not a fan of ceramics on street cars. In my experience they dont brake much (or at all) when theyre "cold". Now on the track is another story.

Jim, does your eldo have ceramics as oem?

STSS -- As an ETC/STS the OEM would be whatever was the top performance option. In fact, so far as I remember, the only performance options were available as part of the Touring package, but I don't recall all the details. I believe that they were ceramic because I didn't have a dust problem, there was no rust stain over time, and I got 130,000 miles out of the original brakes, and I do have a lead foot. Performance of the brakes at 100++ was very good, capable of pulling the car down to whatever speed you wanted smoothly and effortlessly, and fade-free.

Someone here said that cold performance of ceramic brakes wasn't good and that they needed to be warmed up; my experience in older times was that Cerametallic brake shoes for drum brakes was exactly the opposite. In normal use they were fine, but if you got them really hot and then parked the car with the brakes hot, then the first time you applied the brakes cold you had no brakes for the first five heart-stopping seconds, no matter how hard you pushed on the brake pedal. So, I suspect that the reverse is more likely to be true, for some types of metallic pads. In any case I never experienced low braking for cold brakes, or brake fade, with my OEM brakes.

What's more important now is whether an OEM replacement for a ETC/STS would be ceramic or metallic. After checking the listings for OEM and Bendix online, I found that it was ceramic. I'm very happy with mine, and they brake just as well the first time out of the garage as they do "warmed up." If, at some time in the future, I try them at 100++ and find anything to report, I will find this post or thread and reply with any such information. Don't hold your breath; I don't have plans to make any runs at Atco Raceway this afternoon. But, the feel of these pads is that they seem to be of at least OEM quality for the original Touring package brake pads of 1997.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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I've used ceramic pads before (on a minivan) and absolutely loved them. They were Raybestos QuietStop Ceramic. Performance was on-par with the factory semi-metallics, with absolutely NO dust. It was great. I do understand that ceramic pads are not to be used in high-stress applications (like track use or towing, etc). They're apparently for street use only.

I will have to do more reading about this... I thought ceramics were made to get hot and work at the track... and semi mets would start to fade as they got hot.

Im perplexed :unsure:

Jonah

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Here ya go:

Ceramic brake pads incorporate a formula that includes ceramic materials and utilizes less metal (approximately 15% metal content by weight). Ceramic brake pads combine exceptional braking power with very quiet and low-dust braking. However, it is not recommended to use ceramic brake pads for towing applications. Semi-Metallic brake pads incorporate a formula that utilizes approximately 40% or more metal content by weight. Semi-Met brake pads offer premium braking power and work particularly well for towing applications.

From: http://www.boschautoparts.com/Resources/FAQS/BrakePad.htm

It seems to have to do with the heat retention qualities of the ceramic material. This may also speak to the phenomenon that Jim mentioned, about ceramic brakes perhaps being worse when hot than when cold. This may not really be relevant with modern brake pad technology though; I never noticed any difference in pad performance hot/cold on our minivan after I put the Raybestos ceramics on it.

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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My advice is to use a good quality brand name pad and rotor and don't waste your money on this "high performance" stuff.

None of us drive fast enough to use whatever "high performance" capabilities these parts may have. I like Bendix.

I've been using Bendix for 25 years and their products have served me well.

Raybestos and Wagner are also good.

This other "stuff" is just marketing hype to get DIYers to spend more money on

parts than they need to.

Just my two cents...

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This other "stuff" is just marketing hype to get DIYers to spend more money on parts than they need to.

...And Cadillacs are just GM's marketing hype to get car buyers to spend more money on a GM than they need to. ;)

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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This other "stuff" is just marketing hype to get DIYers to spend more money on parts than they need to.

...And Cadillacs are just GM's marketing hype to get car buyers to spend more money on a GM than they need to. ;)

Of course it is..... didn't you know that? :D:D

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And Cadillacs are just GM's marketing hype to get car buyers to spend more money on a GM than they need to.

True enough...but do you really wanna drive a Japanese transportation appliance?

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True enough...but do you really wanna drive a Japanese transportation appliance?

No more than I want to drive around with sub-par brake pads. ;)

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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True enough...but do you really wanna drive a Japanese transportation appliance?

No more than I want to drive around with sub-par brake pads. ;)

To be sure, but Bendix, Raybestos, Wagner are not sub-par.

Now if you're looking for a certain "COOL FACTOR"...that is a different issue. B)

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The shop manuals for my cars state that semi-metallic brake linings are used and to maintain proper braking performance, semi-metallic linings must be used when the linings require replacement.

I recently replaced the rear pads on my '97 STS and the cretin at the parts store was insisting that my car took rear ceramic pads at the tune of $80... I asked him what the price was on semi-metallics and he said he didn't even stock them for my car and repeated the BS about the factory using ceramics... I walked out and went to a different auto parts store and bought semi-metallic pads...

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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To be sure, but Bendix, Raybestos, Wagner are not sub-par.

Now if you're looking for a certain "COOL FACTOR"...that is a different issue. B)

No, they're certainly quality pads, but in my experience, ceramic pads are ideal for my driving style and provide more value than the semi-metallics. My '97 SLS (owned by my brother now) has a set of Bendix semi-mets and they're not very grabby when cold. Stand on the brakes (like in a full-ABS panic stop), and they heat up and grab, but I really didn't care for them that much overall.

"Cool factor" isn't an issue, because you can't tell what the pads are from the outside of the car anyway. I just care how they perform. ;)

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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This other "stuff" is just marketing hype to get DIYers to spend more money on parts than they need to.

...And Cadillacs are just GM's marketing hype to get car buyers to spend more money on a GM than they need to. ;)

Pardon me for stating the obvious but this is of course tongue in cheek... (I think Jim picked up on that)

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Ill keep using OEM thank you... no problems

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Ill keep using OEM thank you... no problems

once again, i must agree with BBF, dang-it ...

why, are you trying to fix something that ain't broke ???

i have, had to brake hard, only once so far, in my fat cat and i was amazed that it

was far better than any of the sports cars that i have owned ...

i have lost it, more than once in my younger days and totaled my rides and the last

time, that comes to mind i was doing over 110 MPR in a 69 firebird, when i realised that i was forked with hard curves coming up .... and you read in the newspaper

all the time, about somebody going off the right side of the road and correcting only to go off the left side

of the road and dieing ... i drive better than that ... i went from side to side 4 times at the least, before i

said to my self fork-it... i'm forked buckle down ... i went airborne and after hitting, a 3 foot embankment

I slammed into a pine tree while i my car was 3 feet in the air ... and i, as well as the tree have the scares to prove it ... my family own 2,000 acres of land and the paved road that i was on was built, and paid for, by my family and anybody else, is a guest and although they like to call it, a public road, we proved it federal court that it was built and paid for, by my family ... i only have posted the last to let you know that i am not totally irresponsible ... in other word it's my sh*t and you, are a guest and these are the rule of my road ...

but, i am sorry, that i deviated, but i found it important, to say that, i am not a total nut ...

and back to where i began, i have spanked my fat cat and why, try to fix, something that ain't broke ???

best braking system, that i have ever had the pleasure to use ...

Lane

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why, are you trying to fix something that ain't broke ???

Why don't we all drive around with HT-4100 engines then? Or on bias-ply tires?

There's always room for improvement. The OE brake pad spec was developed over a decade ago. There's nothing wrong with it. But improvements in materials and manufacturing have led to improvements in performance and/or fewer or smaller compromises. There was nothing wrong with bias-ply tires either. At the time, that's just what we had. It took a while for radials to become prevalent. And I have no doubts that during those years it took for the industry to switch over to radial tire designs, there were a lot of folks sayin', "why are we fixing something that isn't broke; I'm sticking with my bias-ply tires."

Everything is relative. Brake pad lining materials have changed a ton since they were first developed centuries ago, and they'll continue to change and improve as time goes on. We're just sitting here in a snapshot in time looking back to semi-metallics and saying, "gee, nothing was wrong with those, why change?" Well, the same could be said of asbestos-laiden linings, the same could be said of drum brakes, etc. Just because something worked when it was first designed, doesn't mean it can't be improved upon. If that wasn't the case, we'd all be driving Model Ts right now.

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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