98 Eldorado

[kcd1184]

I merged your 98 Caddy Florida pick up threads into one thread so that the history is known to everyone. I think there is one more thread on this someplace. These threads are all related.

Sorry to hear about the issues, its a shame your friends could not have had this car checked out before you got there

OK Here is the latest. Eldo started this morning but would not go into gear.(come out of park) I Know about pressing the brake. tried and tried with some force too. engaged the emergency brake to maybe help. no help

Finally got pissed and really pulled hard and it came out of park.E mergency ddidn't release though. Still was hard going in and out of park trying to get the brake to release. Called the dealership service department and manager explained how to manually release parking brake.Drove Eldo to friends house (13.6 charge reading)Went and had battery and charging system checked. All OK. Drove to the dealership and got 14 year maintenance history.All recommended proceedures had been done.New air Compressor(08) and Radiator tankS(09) were only major replacements listed. Last entry was 12/10. Failed block test... recommend new engine.

I am assuming that is failed head gasket. I am very familiar with this issue. When my friends drove the Eldo back from Ft Meyers there was no overheating and the coolant temp guage has not moved from center when I have been driving it. I checked the coolant level and added 2qts of dexcool (more than full)Don't know when it was checked and filled last.

The car sat for three hours after all todays driving with a cardboard piece under where it dripped yesterday. Not one drop. Maybe a gasket or seal or whatever is tightening(swelling) back up after no usage for a long period. The Eldo starts very hard, 10 second crank with fuel applied at 6 seconds. More so when cold. Its not right. My 94 starts in one second. Runs normal(great) otherwise.

Any how, I have till Tuesday afternoon to see what goes on and then we will drive home(1000miles) if nothing changes drastically.

Any comments or advice welcome.

[Cadillac Jim]

Kill the deal and go home. This car is a lemon.

If the head gasket is bad you have little chance of making a 1000 mile road trip without serious overheating incidents, and quite possibly getting stranded on the road somewhere.

Tidbits: moving the accelerator pedal while starting the car has no effect on a DFI, with the exception of a Cadillac PCM feature that lets you clear a flooded car by pressing the accelerator to the floor, which disables the spark. The car probably has a bad FPR.

Most oil leaks from the front or rear seal, or, in the case of an old car, the case half, are from high-pressure oil galleries and don't leak while the car is not running.

[BodybyFisher]

Unfortunately this car was purchased back in October, see this thread

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=40535&st=0&p=197837&fromsearch=1entry197837

I wish all of the threads on this purchase were kept in one thread, there are about 5 threads on this

[Texas Jim]

I would go drive it around a bit then do a combustion byproducts test before I would be willing to start on a 1000 mile trip.

[kcd1184]

Unfortunately this car was purchased back in October, see this thread

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=40535&st=0&p=197837&fromsearch=1entry197837

I wish all of the threads on this purchase were kept in one thread, there are about 5 threads on this

I know my threads are all over but in this instance I started a new thread with an attention getting topic so that if someone had read the 98 eldo thread once, they might not read again. No offense to you intended.

Thank you for all your input.

Kent

[navion]

The Eldo battery is in the engine compartment, not under the seat. But I'm sure you already know that because you had to jump the car. So you do not need to worry about how the battery vents

OOPS!, I was confusing my present '03 SLS with the '94 SLS! My apologies.

[BodybyFisher]

Unfortunately this car was purchased back in October, see this thread

http://caddyinfo.ipb...=1entry197837

I wish all of the threads on this purchase were kept in one thread, there are about 5 threads on this

I know my threads are all over but in this instance I started a new thread with an attention getting topic so that if someone had read the 98 eldo thread once, they might not read again. No offense to you intended.

Thank you for all your input.

Kent

No problem Kent, I feel bad about what you found when you got there. How can we help you?

[Ranger]

Kent,

Having to give it throttle to start it indicates to me that the IAC valve either is not operating (but that would set a DTC) or the IAC inlet in the TB is clogged and opening the throttle plate is bypassing it. I'd start with a good TB cleaning. If that does not help, then pull the IAC valve and clean it and the air passages, but I doubt you'll need to go that far.

[kcd1184]

The part I am struggling with is whether to drive it home. This block test was done 12/10 at 90,500 miles.

The eldo remained with the same owner till it was sold or traded 10/11 at 93,500 and between the auction house and the dealer I bought it from it was driven another 1000 miles.

I don't know how often coolant was added but if I watch the level, it seems like it has been drivable. I know this is a entirely different situation but I don't have a lot of options. Sort of taking the fun out of my visit. There are some drips under the motor this morning.

Kent

[BodybyFisher]

Coolant drips? Can you find a good mechanic that will pressure test your cooling system?

[KHE]

Can you see where the oil is leaking? Probably from the oil pan and not the case half. Common for older Northstars.

You have been driving the car for awhile, is the coolant level going down or is it staying at the proper level?

I would go to AutoZone and do my own block test if I were you. If it fails but is not overheating or puking coolant to the ground, the engine could be in the early stages of headgasket failure. You might be able to drive it several thousand miles before it gets bad enough to overheat/lose coolant.

It bugs me that people knowingly sell a car with a major issue...

[rockfangd]

that all depends, as long as the seller is honest about the sell. I have bought cars cheap knowing they need repair. my 97 sls is a prime example. The owner didnt know head bolts had pulled, but I did and due to the imminent engine repair I got the car cheaper.

I would never buy a car unseen unless it was very cheap. Sometimes what is in the mind is very different in person, and it can be very upsetting.

I would go over the car really well before even thinking about a 1000 mile trip.

Good luck to you

[kcd1184]

Can you see where the oil is leaking? Probably from the oil pan and not the case half. Common for older Northstars.

You have been driving the car for awhile, is the coolant level going down or is it staying at the proper level?

I would go to AutoZone and do my own block test if I were you. If it fails but is not overheating or puking coolant to the ground, the engine could be in the early stages of headgasket failure. You might be able to drive it several thousand miles before it gets bad enough to overheat/lose coolant.

It bugs me that people knowingly sell a car with a major issue...

Can't tell where the oil is coming from, I'll deal with that later. I overfilled the coolant yesterday and drove an hour in city traffic last night. This morning the level was down to what looked like normal level.I assume the overflow adjusts level when over filled. I drove another 1 1/2 hours in city traffic today and will check coolant level in the morning to see if it remained the same after todays driving. Drove perfect except for hard starting,(more so when cold)

I have limited tools, but will get what it takes. Would someone give me a brief run down on a basic throttle body cleaning.I have messed around with my 94 Eldo but I don't believe I followed a set procedure.

Coolant temp was normal and charge read out was mostly 13.6.

I called the dealer I bought the Eldo from and explained what was going on and that I just wanted information from him. He said that he drove the eldo back and forth from Fort Meyers to Tampa a few times (that accounts for the 1000 miles) and it never ran hot. He said he never added coolant and wasn't checking for it because he was not aware of the dealership block test result, and the car was not giving any indication that any thing was wrong when he was driving it. He doesn't know if one of his guys might have added coolant but the only thing he did to the car was a new battery and alternator. Thanks Kent

[BodybyFisher]

Kent, buy some GM UEC or upper engine cleaner its a liquid not a spray foam. Buy some good vinyl detail brushes or some tooth brushes and get some good terry cloth towels. Open the throttle body and hold it open by stuffing the bottom half with a rag. You want to get the back of the trottle plate really good with brushes and rags. Clean the throat walls and edges of the plate good. Then stuff the top half with the rag and clean the bottom half throat walls. With a torx, you can remove the IAC and clean the IAC pindle and port good. Do not spray or pour solvent into the intake, you can hydrolock the engine, (its been done by a tech). It should take you about 30 minutes to clean the throttle body good. It a messy gummy job, use rubber gloves if you want

[rockfangd]

just to give you a heads up. A HG problem rarely shows in city driving. It shows on the highway during acceleration. My 96 Eldo ETC was bad and I could drive all over the city but after 10 miles on the highway I was overheated. Mine was severe.

Even with severe it was still driveable in the city

[Ranger]

Can't tell where the oil is coming from, I'll deal with that later. I overfilled the coolant yesterday and drove an hour in city traffic last night. This morning the level was down to what looked like normal level.I assume the overflow adjusts level when over filled.

Only if it is filled right to the top or very, very close to it.

[caddypete]

This is copied from a site on Northstar headgasket diagnostics, it states that your car can pass tests and still have a blown gasket. It maybe fine with the engine cold but as it heats up, things expand and what didn't leak cold is leaking now.

Here are the most common signs of head gasket failure on a Northstar:

- Overheating

- High pressure build-up in the coolant surge (fill) tank, that remains when the engine cools off

- Heavy white smoke from the tail pipes (condensation & water vapor is completely normal for any car)

- Coolant smell from the exhaust

- Engine temperature spikes during acceleration or climbing steep grades

- Coolant in the oil (this will turn the oil a milky white or light brown)

- Sudden severe oil leak coming from rear main seal area

The best test there is, make sure you have adequate coolant, and get the car on the highway and do a few quick acceleration runs. Get the car quickly up to 70 MPH (120km/h) and slow back down to around 30 MPH (50km/h). Only do this where it is legal! Repeat this process, monitoring coolant temperature. If you have the guage, the temperature should never normally run past the 5/8 mark. If you have the digital read-out, the temp should never hit the 240 degree F mark. If the temp keeps climbing to the point where it tells you "A/C off for engine protection" or "Engine hot - idle engine", or your guage passes the 3/4 mark, pull over immediately, let the car idle for a minute and shut it off. Let it cool down a bit, top off your coolant and make your way back home. At this point, keep your foot out of the gas as much as possible. Your head gaskets are blown / head bolts pulled.

Many repair shops are capable of diagnosing a bad head gasket but not all of them know how to deal with the Northstar. Did you know a Northstar can pass all the usual pressure tests, and still have a bad head gasket? This is due to the troublesome head bolts. This is why we recommend the method above for determining the state of your gaskets.

So what to do now? Well, for starters, DON'T use any type of quick-fix in a bottle. I'm sure you've read about miracle sealants that are designed for the Northstar and a bunch of other stuff on the market. All this will do is clog up the coolant passages. The guy who does your head gaskets won't appreciate the mess that will need to be cleaned out once he tears your engine down, and you won't like replacing your radiator and heater core. Of course it is never a bad idea replacing your water pump, checking the belt and tensioner, cooling fan operation (they do fail sometimes) and if in doubt, a new radiator. But a lot of the time, nothing but the head gaskets will need to be done.

If you have coolant in your oil, stop driving, period. Don't run the car at all. This can severely damage your engine. If you must move the car, make sure the oil is at the proper level and not too high.

If you are seeing moderate to heavy white smoke, don't try to start the car again- get to where you need to go and shut the car off. Especially if you have a 2000 or newer model- the engines are not as strong and have been snapping/bending connecting rods when coolant gets in the cyinders.

If you are getting exhaust gasses in the coolant (pressure in the plastic coolant tank), it is OK to drive the car providing you can keep your speed down to about 50MPH (80km/h) and you keep checking/topping off your coolant. No more sudden acceleration or passing, and stay away from long hills. Just don't overheat the engine. Regardless of what the owner's manual says, it's not OK to continue to drive without coolant- these cars have a limp-mode but it is not very effective. If you have overheated your engine, the oil-life-monitor will return to 0%. You should change your oil after overheating the engine

[rockfangd]

excellent above post. That is what my Eldo did. you wouldnt even know it had a major problem putting around in the city. But 5 minutes on the highway and it was doownhill from there.

My Deville even thoughh the same year as my eldo was wont get over 220f under several heavy accelerations. That test is the best for me.

I have tried all the tests on a couple just for the heck of it, they passed them with no problems, until you got on the highway and it rapidly overheats.

Honestly it is weird. My eldorado failed by exhaustt purging into the cooling system, but my 97 Seville blew by purging coolant into the oil. Both were severe.

[kcd1184]

This is copied from a site on Northstar headgasket diagnostics, it states that your car can pass tests and still have a blown gasket. It maybe fine with the engine cold but as it heats up, things expand and what didn't leak cold is leaking now.

Here are the most common signs of head gasket failure on a Northstar:

- Overheating

- High pressure build-up in the coolant surge (fill) tank, that remains when the engine cools off

- Heavy white smoke from the tail pipes (condensation & water vapor is completely normal for any car)

- Coolant smell from the exhaust

- Engine temperature spikes during acceleration or climbing steep grades

- Coolant in the oil (this will turn the oil a milky white or light brown)

- Sudden severe oil leak coming from rear main seal area

The best test there is, make sure you have adequate coolant, and get the car on the highway and do a few quick acceleration runs. Get the car quickly up to 70 MPH (120km/h) and slow back down to around 30 MPH (50km/h). Only do this where it is legal! Repeat this process, monitoring coolant temperature. If you have the guage, the temperature should never normally run past the 5/8 mark. If you have the digital read-out, the temp should never hit the 240 degree F mark. If the temp keeps climbing to the point where it tells you "A/C off for engine protection" or "Engine hot - idle engine", or your guage passes the 3/4 mark, pull over immediately, let the car idle for a minute and shut it off. Let it cool down a bit, top off your coolant and make your way back home. At this point, keep your foot out of the gas as much as possible. Your head gaskets are blown / head bolts pulled.

Many repair shops are capable of diagnosing a bad head gasket but not all of them know how to deal with the Northstar. Did you know a Northstar can pass all the usual pressure tests, and still have a bad head gasket? This is due to the troublesome head bolts. This is why we recommend the method above for determining the state of your gaskets.

So what to do now? Well, for starters, DON'T use any type of quick-fix in a bottle. I'm sure you've read about miracle sealants that are designed for the Northstar and a bunch of other stuff on the market. All this will do is clog up the coolant passages. The guy who does your head gaskets won't appreciate the mess that will need to be cleaned out once he tears your engine down, and you won't like replacing your radiator and heater core. Of course it is never a bad idea replacing your water pump, checking the belt and tensioner, cooling fan operation (they do fail sometimes) and if in doubt, a new radiator. But a lot of the time, nothing but the head gaskets will need to be done.

If you have coolant in your oil, stop driving, period. Don't run the car at all. This can severely damage your engine. If you must move the car, make sure the oil is at the proper level and not too high.

If you are seeing moderate to heavy white smoke, don't try to start the car again- get to where you need to go and shut the car off. Especially if you have a 2000 or newer model- the engines are not as strong and have been snapping/bending connecting rods when coolant gets in the cyinders.

If you are getting exhaust gasses in the coolant (pressure in the plastic coolant tank), it is OK to drive the car providing you can keep your speed down to about 50MPH (80km/h) and you keep checking/topping off your coolant. No more sudden acceleration or passing, and stay away from long hills. Just don't overheat the engine. Regardless of what the owner's manual says, it's not OK to continue to drive without coolant- these cars have a limp-mode but it is not very effective. If you have overheated your engine, the oil-life-monitor will return to 0%. You should change your oil after overheating the engine

Did 60mile hwy testrun Monday. Nothing. Left yesterday 1:30pm St Petersburg.Balls to the wall! Got here 9:00am this morning. First 500 miles(Atlanta) averaged 72.9mph, 29.8 mpg. Fueled up and opened reserve cap while still pressurized.Coolant overflowed a bit. Good news to me. Up and down big grades(mountain passes) in Chattanooga. Ran hard, on ramp wots, all the way except 1 1/2 hrs when wife spelled me. 60/65mph. Two hr stop time max. Temp needle NEVER moved entire 1300+ trip. Just opened cap again, no pressure but still medium hot. Coolant level looked about where it should be normal. Filled it up to where I had over filled it before the Monday test run. It took 8ozs.(1 cup) Caddy dealerships diagnosis of failed block test 5000miles ago must still be in early stages. Cleaned throttle body and still starts hard. Got some electrical issues. Traction control and abs lights come on when starting and have to restart to go away. Air compressor was but now is not working(replaced, suppossedly(08) Cruise was but not now working.

Thanks for all the input. 29.2mpg/69.1mph total trip. Lost exact total trip milage. This Eldo is a fast one. Too bad it seems like it came out of the Bermuda Triangle.

To be continued

Kent

[Texas Jim]

Kent,

Any traction control issues or ABS issues will disable the cruise control.

Once the TC and/or the ABS issue is fixed... cruise will probably also work again.

[KHE]

Kent,

Check the diagnostic codes and post them. There may be a code set that will point to the hard starting problem.

Also, it would be a good idea to hook up a fuel pressure gage to the fuel rail and see what the fuel pressure is when it is hard starting.

I would recommend performing the block test yourself - AutoZone has the kit and fluid. That way, you'll know for sure if the headgaskets are starting to go bad. It seems like the headgaskets would have failed by this time (if they were going to fail) if the car failed the block test over a year ago.

[caddypete]

If you ran it that hard and the needle on the temp gauge didn't move, I would wonder if the dealer wasn't trying to sell a new car.I would do a coolant change and drive the car a few hundred miles and have the test redone

[rockfangd]

thats great news. thats great mileage also. Doesnt that feel reassuring.

You do have to watch out for dealers. when I brought my Seville in last year they told to expect to have problems as my Seville is old and is going to start causing problems. I said no thanks just fix it. Wasnt looking for another car

[KHE]

I had a thought on the hard starting issue: I seem to recall if the re was a problem with the fuel pump electrical circuit, the engine would need to crank long enough to build up oil pressure before power would be sent to the fuel pump. Seems to me the oil pressure signal was a bypass around the fuel pump relay or something similar.

When you turn the key to ON but do not start the engine, can you hear the fuel pump run?

[BodybyFisher]

Glad you made it home ok and it ran good, you didnt mention oil consumption, how did it do with oil?