98 Eldorado

[kcd1184]

I had a thought on the hard starting issue: I seem to recall if the re was a problem with the fuel pump electrical circuit, the engine would need to crank long enough to build up oil pressure before power would be sent to the fuel pump. Seems to me the oil pressure signal was a bypass around the fuel pump relay or something similar.

When you turn the key to ON but do not start the engine, can you hear the fuel pump run?

As soon as I turn the key, there is a hummmmmmmmmmmmm for about 1 1/2 seconds or so from engine compartment. Also starting immediately is the first of six dings(the key or lights on warning sound). The dash flashes all the icon lights and then they all go off except the seatbelt icon and an oil icon( teapot with a drip). Also the service engine soon icon stays on. I don't remember when that first appeared.

I don't hear the ride control motor activate for start up either. I will try to get codes. If I bought an OBII? do I have to special training. Wish they would have kept it like my 94 Eldo where I can pull codes on board.

Reguarding the cruise control.... it would not engage at the start of the trip home. I tried on and off for about a half hour. No luck. Turned it off. About an hour later I tried again and it engaged. About fifteen minutes later I felt a loss of power, thought oh no, then realized cruise had kicked out. Turned it off and didn't try again, since I'm alreay on pins and needles driving this Eldo home. I did locate fuse and check during a pit stop. Looked ok.

Thanks

Kent

[KHE]

There should be humming from the fuel tank area. The humming you heard is probably the fuel pump sound resonating through the lines etc. but listen near the fuel tank.

Codes are obtained by simultaneously pressing and holding the OFF and PASSENGER WARMER buttons on the climate control pane. Fan up = yes, fan down = no.

If the fuel pump is running at key-on, then hook up a fuel pressure gage to the fuel rail and monitor the fuel pressure while turning the key to on and then while cranking.

[Ranger]

Glad to hear you had an uneventful trip home Kent. Sounds like your worst fears are unfounded. As for the cruise, check the brake disconnect switch at the upper part of the brake pedal. Have you checked for a leaky FPR in regards to the hard starts?

[kcd1184]

Checked the fuel pressure today. Key on- 40lbs, engine running- 45lbs. Tried the cruise control once and it was working. ???? Had a friend pull the codes.

ACM B1341 (H), SDM B1161 + B1327 (H), TCS C1225,26,27,28 (H), MMM B2146 + B2148 (H). There were two current PO codes,113A+461. The plug-in on the air filter box was not in place when he took the readout.It is now. I did the on-board later and they (PO codes) are not showing up.I had him delete the codes after he was done (evidently he didn't). The ABS+Traction icons still come on but the service engine soon warning is not appearing for the moment.

When I left St Petersburg, the oil level was on the second mark above the add line. At 500 miles into the trip it was almost at add, so I put a quart in. At the end of the trip, 800+more miles, the level was back to the second mark above the add line. I changed oil(7+1/2qts) and filter today. I'll see what happens now but I don't think oil is an issue. Doing all the brakes tomorrow. Pads and rotors. Let me know what you know about those codes.

Thanks

Kent

[Ranger]

You can get the code definitions here Kent.

http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/dtcobd2.html

[kcd1184]

You can get the code definitions here Kent.

http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/dtcobd2.html

Do my fuel pressure readings negate checking the FPR? Is that the first little horizontal plastic piece the fuel line goes to? It looks pretty Mickey Mouse. It might have been a mechanically uneventful trip, but you wouldn't want to hear about it from my wife. She claims I was doing 80mph up and down the Chattanooga mountain roads. Come to think of it, when I did have a moment to glance her way, she looked a little strange with her legs and arms all braced and hanging on. Dark out too. I also did make it back and forth twice across 5 or 6 lanes in downtown Atlanta in 30mph bumper to bumper traffic,within about an 1/8th a mile. The 75 North sign kept going from one side to the other of about 8 lanes. I had thought rush hour traffic would be done by then.It wasn't. Maybe a sporting event or something. I was sort of busy at the time but she told me later on that she started crying during that little episode. I think she only screamed twice. Anyhow, so far so good.

Kent

[BodybyFisher]

Only screamed twice,

Seems like you are enjoying this car, I am glad its running better than what you found when you first inspected it

[KHE]

I would still check the fuel pressure regulator. If anything, just to rule it out. If I remmeber correctly, the car starts hard whether it is either cold or hot?

If there is a way to block off the return fuel line without damaging it, the fuel pressure should build to maximum (around 60 psi).

The P0113 code is the intake air temp sensor high voltage code. Not sure how that was set since it was unplugged. Repeated backfiring can damage the IAT sensor.

The P0461 code is fuel level sensor performance. Is the fuel gage reading erratically?

[kcd1184]

I would still check the fuel pressure regulator. If anything, just to rule it out. If I remmeber correctly, the car starts hard whether it is either cold or hot?

If there is a way to block off the return fuel line without damaging it, the fuel pressure should build to maximum (around 60 psi).

The P0113 code is the intake air temp sensor high voltage code. Not sure how that was set since it was unplugged. Repeated backfiring can damage the IAT sensor.

The P0461 code is fuel level sensor performance. Is the fuel gage reading erratically?

Went to get codes with the engine running. Just turned the key on for yesterdays on-board readout. Started good this time but was stuck in Park again. Fooled with it and it came out but wouldn't go back in. Ran the codes and drove back into the garage. Went into Park hard. I think there is an electrical command when you depress the shift stick button to go out of park, but isn't it just mechanical going back in. Any where to lube the shift linkage? No more codes than listed yesterday but I found another note page with more codes he pulled with his plug-in device. PO463 Fuel Level High Voltage,PO603 Long Term Memory Reset,PO505 Vehicle Speed Sensor Circuit Intermittant,and I think I wrote this down correctly as he said it to me, C1255 BCTM Internal Malfunction. I think there was a C1256 also because I wrote down EBTCM Internal Malfunction below the C1255 language. Then he added that it stated ABS + Traction Disabled. Focusing on the PO505,C1255,1256??,and the C1225,26,27,28 codes, what do I do from here. I am not an elecrical system person. My mission is to activate the ABS + Traction control.

Kent

[BodybyFisher]

There is a switch activated by pressing the brake that allows you to take it out of park and return it to park. Id check the switch adjustment and the shift interlock solenoid that locks the shifter for adjustment, corrosion, etc.

[Cadillac Jim]

If the car is giving trouble going into Park and coming out of Park when you have the brake pedal pushed in, there is likely a problem with one or more of one of the two brake switches, the PRNDL switch or its position (adjustable), orr the wiring harness such as loose connectors to one of the above switches or damaged wires. The problem is not likely a mechanical problem, other than the solenoid that blocks the Park position might be sticking (which is vanishingly rare but possible), but codes should tell us that.

The best time to check the codes is after driving the car, parked, with the engine still running. If you turn the key off, most of the CURRENT codes automatically go to HISTORY, complicating diagnosis.

The codes you give seem to be

C1255 EBCM Internal Malfunction (ABS/TCS Disabled)

C1256 EBCM Internal Malfunction

P0505 Idle Control System Malfunction

C1225 Left Front Excessive Wheel Speed Variation

C1226 Right Front Excessive Wheel Speed Variation

C1227 Left Rear Excessive Wheel Speed Variation

C1228 Right Rear Excessive Wheel Speed Variation

Any one of the C12nn codes will disable the ABS and traction control. All of them look like electrical problems in the connector to the EBTCM, or possibly a bad battery cable/battery/alternator. I would clear them all from the A/C console, drive the car, and check the codes before I turned off the engine, noting which ones were CURRENT if any. While you are driving avoid things that might throw spurious C122x codes such as driving over 50 kph over very rough roads, accelerating or braking on gravel or potholes, etc.

One last wild thought: you don't drive within a couple of hundred feet of a large radar or an airline beacon transponder, do you?

[KHE]

When you apply the brake, you should hear a faint click from the shifter area - that is the brake transmission shift interlock (BTSI) solenoid activating. If you do not hear the faint click (it can be difficult to hear) then it is possible there is an issue with the brake switch not being adjusted. You may need to pull the console and monitor the voltage across the BTSI solenoid to see if there is 12VDC when you apply the brake.

[kcd1184]

Thanks for all the responses so far . I was putting new brakes on and my son showed up with a truck promblem. Didn't get to finish the brakes yet. I'm going to try now. I will look more closely at all the replys later. One bright spot today was that my license plates came.

NSTR 98

Kent

[Texas Jim]

I like the plates....

[Ranger]

Do my fuel pressure readings negate checking the FPR? Is that the first little horizontal plastic piece the fuel line goes to? It looks pretty Mickey Mouse. It might have been a mechanically uneventful trip, but you wouldn't want to hear about it from my wife. She claims I was doing 80mph up and down the Chattanooga mountain roads. Come to think of it, when I did have a moment to glance her way, she looked a little strange with her legs and arms all braced and hanging on. Dark out too. I also did make it back and forth twice across 5 or 6 lanes in downtown Atlanta in 30mph bumper to bumper traffic,within about an 1/8th a mile. The 75 North sign kept going from one side to the other of about 8 lanes. I had thought rush hour traffic would be done by then.It wasn't. Maybe a sporting event or something. I was sort of busy at the time but she told me later on that she started crying during that little episode. I think she only screamed twice. Anyhow, so far so good.

Kent

Wouldn't hurt to check the FPR anyway since it is so easy. Yours should look like this. Red arrow is the vacuum line. Yellow is fuel.

Your wife sounds just like mine.

[kcd1184]

If the car is giving trouble going into Park and coming out of Park when you have the brake pedal pushed in, there is likely a problem with one or more of one of the two brake switches, the PRNDL switch or its position (adjustable), orr the wiring harness such as loose connectors to one of the above switches or damaged wires. The problem is not likely a mechanical problem, other than the solenoid that blocks the Park position might be sticking (which is vanishingly rare but possible), but codes should tell us that.

The best time to check the codes is after driving the car, parked, with the engine still running. If you turn the key off, most of the CURRENT codes automatically go to HISTORY, complicating diagnosis.

The codes you give seem to be

C1255 EBCM Internal Malfunction (ABS/TCS Disabled)

C1256 EBCM Internal Malfunction

P0505 Idle Control System Malfunction

C1225 Left Front Excessive Wheel Speed Variation

C1226 Right Front Excessive Wheel Speed Variation

C1227 Left Rear Excessive Wheel Speed Variation

C1228 Right Rear Excessive Wheel Speed Variation

Any one of the C12nn codes will disable the ABS and traction control. All of them look like electrical problems in the connector to the EBTCM, or possibly a bad battery cable/battery/alternator. I would clear them all from the A/C console, drive the car, and check the codes before I turned off the engine, noting which ones were CURRENT if any. While you are driving avoid things that might throw spurious C122x codes such as driving over 50 kph over very rough roads, accelerating or braking on gravel or potholes, etc.

One last wild thought: you don't drive within a couple of hundred feet of a large radar or an airline beacon transponder, do you?

Cleared all codes and went for an under 60 mph ride. 20 miles. Checked codes when I came back and the only codes displayed were the TCS 1225,6,7,8-current.

I am going to check battery connections. Eldo started good three times, but the last time(when warm) it raced up and down for a bit. Still was hard to get out of Park but I concentrated on the shift button. Pulling does not seem to help if the release action doesn't happen. Traction off button worked in the driveway before the ride(ABS+ Traction icons came on) I tried cruise control twice. Worked both times.

Did the front brakes. Must not be any grease fittings on this year Eldo. All of the small rubber covers are severly weathered. To be addressed later.

I don't believe the one and only owner of this Eldo ever open up the glove box manual. Every thing is untouched. Even the Cadillac pen and notepad are still inserted in the manual case compartments. Pen doesn't work. Go figure. What is next with these codes?

Kent

[Ranger]

Try pulling the EBTCM connector and spray the contact pins with Deoxit D5.

[Cadillac Jim]

If you have C1225, -6 and -7 CURRENT, then you have mismatched tires or low air in at least two of them. Or, very high pressure and/or bad shocks/struts can cause the tires to bounce and generate these codes. Make sure that all of the tires are the same size and have 30 psi to 32 psi and try again.

The idle control mechanism code is probably the idle speed stepping motor, and if you don't have driveability problems in starting or idle speed, you can leave that one until last.

Ranger's suggestion might keep C1255 and C1256 from coming back. The EBTCM on my car is likely different from yours because mine's older, and because my car has a "T" as the middle letter in the model designation and yours has an "H" (for High Luxury). But, check the 10 Amp BRAKE fuse, which goes to the big pink wire in the EBTCM connector as well. The EBTCM connector has two parts, six big spade connectors for power and ground and 30 small pin connectors for signals. In the six big wires, pink is hot with ignition on, the two big red ones are always hot and power the ABS pump motor, and black is ground and runs to the front of the engine block; two aren't used. There is another ground on the back of the ABS pump motor that also runs to the front of the engine block. You must have both grounds or you will have problems. Use the appropriate technique for spraying the spades and pins appropriately for each type of terminal in the connector.

There is a connector clamp on the EBTCM module that holds onto the ears of the connector casing and keeps the connector secure. If that is missing, get another from a recycling yard. There is a securing pin for the EBTCM connector that, once the clamp is used and has it securely inserted into the module, prevents the connector from rocking. If the locking pin is missing, use a nylon wire tie instead.

[kcd1184]

If you have C1225, -6 and -7 CURRENT, then you have mismatched tires or low air in at least two of them. Or, very high pressure and/or bad shocks/struts can cause the tires to bounce and generate these codes. Make sure that all of the tires are the same size and have 30 psi to 32 psi and try again.

The idle control mechanism code is probably the idle speed stepping motor, and if you don't have driveability problems in starting or idle speed, you can leave that one until last.

Ranger's suggestion might keep C1255 and C1256 from coming back. The EBTCM on my car is likely different from yours because mine's older, and because my car has a "T" as the middle letter in the model designation and yours has an "H" (for High Luxury). But, check the 10 Amp BRAKE fuse, which goes to the big pink wire in the EBTCM connector as well. The EBTCM connector has two parts, six big spade connectors for power and ground and 30 small pin connectors for signals. In the six big wires, pink is hot with ignition on, the two big red ones are always hot and power the ABS pump motor, and black is ground and runs to the front of the engine block; two aren't used. There is another ground on the back of the ABS pump motor that also runs to the front of the engine block. You must have both grounds or you will have problems. Use the appropriate technique for spraying the spades and pins appropriately for each type of terminal in the connector.

There is a connector clamp on the EBTCM module that holds onto the ears of the connector casing and keeps the connector secure. If that is missing, get another from a recycling yard. There is a securing pin for the EBTCM connector that, once the clamp is used and has it securely inserted into the module, prevents the connector from rocking. If the locking pin is missing, use a nylon wire tie instead.

The tires are the same size,oem, but with two different brands. I had the tires balanced and air set before I left.Put the best tread,same brand forward. I learned my lesson when I drove the 94 Eldo back from Dallas in '04'. Rough ride, nothing open. I have checked air pressure on the trip home and and since getting back. 80F to 20F temperature change makes a difference. Don't think that is the issue. I will work on the EBTCM connector today. Bad shocks/struts should cause a code?

Kent

Just got done trying to locate the EBTCM. Lower front driver side? Large 4 1/2" connector on motor side of unit. Lines out opposite side with smaller cylinder(motor?) attached lower in center of lines. Looks like a metal clip holding connector in place. Hard to see, much less get at. If I get confirmation that this is the EBTCM, it looks like I will need to move some things out of the way. That metal clip looks menacing. One of the problems with these older cars is that no matter how good they were taken care of, things get cooked(brittle). I ordered new hoses and thermostat along with plugs,wire set, and tranny filter kit from RockAuto, so if I'm in the right spot, I will wait for the parts to arrive and make a larger work area. Going to do the rear brakes now. The front ones were shot.

[Ranger]

That sounds like the EBTCM Kent. Might be easier to access from the bottom after you remove the splash shield.

[kcd1184]

That sounds like the EBTCM Kent. Might be easier to access from the bottom after you remove the splash shield.

[/quo I thought about that also.I'm going to drain the radiator and pull the hoses tomorrow. I'll check out a possible bottom assault then. The FPR vacuum line was clear. I pulled the under dash cover to look at the parking brake release. Very clean but what a BUNCH of wires! I didn't have the motor running . I would press the PB pedal down and then release it manually, it returned fairly rapidly (no snap) 3/4 of the way back to disengaged position and then glided the last 1/4. I could see a small vacuum release higher up(barely). I couldn't see how the vacuum control and release lever are connected. There is a small hole on the end of the release lever that looks like a spring or something might go there? When the service manager told me how to manually release the PB in Florida, he warned me to watch out for my fingers because it snaps back. There was a little cube hanging up in there with two 2amp fuses. Didn't pull and check them. Tight. Should I?

Is that spray a GM item? Thanks

Kent

[Cadillac Jim]

The shop manual says to access the EBTCM connector from the top by removing the air cleaner element. I think that Ranger's suggestion about going through the wheel well makes a lot more sense.

[Ranger]

Is that spray a GM item?

You mean the Deoxit D5? No, nothing to do with GM. Radio shack might have it. I think I found it at a music store in Crystal Lake.

I think that Ranger's suggestion about going through the wheel well makes a lot more sense.

I was actually talking about the lower splash shield Jim. The one under the radiator.

[rockfangd]

when I just did my brake lines on my Deville it was easiest to access from the left front shield removal. The plug is usually pretty strong. It swivels on the unit to release the plug. Get a feel for it and you shouldnt break it

[kcd1184]

Had a terrible time with the shifter yesterday. Would not come out of Park.Caddy mechanic said there is a solenoid on the shifter. Tried to access from the top of console. No dice. Found the proceedure to replace shift control and or solenoid but not how to access it. Plastic pins were popping so I quit. I finally got the solenoid to release the handle button. The shifter will function fine out of park. It will only go back into Park, from reverse or drive, when it wants to(sporadically) and then a waiting game for it to come out again. I did discover that if I put the shifter into 2nd gear position(it won't go into first gear position by the way) , if I use one complete motion forward, the lever will move up into Park "normally". Then if you push the brake, the shift button releases momentarily and you can come out of Park. The shift lever button is the controling factor for a pin or such that locks the lever in place. Child proofing. Tried that proceedure a few more times and then started on the coolant and EBTCM project. Not fixed but working, at least it was.

Took the plasic splash guard off. No real access from underneath to the EBTCM. Drained the coolant, removed radiator hoses and air filter box and tubes. I had to move the one electric fan over to access radiator drain plug and also open up EBTCM area. The connection came apart, working from above, fairly easily. Using a mirror, everything looked clean. Sprayed male connectors twice and then when dry I reconnected it. There is not much room to work or see. Hoses and thermostat from RockAuto didn't show yet so that project is at a standstill.

I also replaced the belt tensioner and put a new belt on. The positive battery connection was not completely tight when I removed the battery. Hopefully parts get here today.

Kent