Maybe it's not the same old story at GM after all.

[Dasher]

I bought my 08 CTS last August. It has about every option they offer including the 304 HP Direct Injection engine. I just loved it and thought it was the best thing since sliced bread.

After a couple of months, however, a wiring harness broke. The car was drivable; but I lost my ABS, Traction Control, Stabilitrak and AWD. The dealer didn't have the part and GM had it on back order. After about two weeks it arrived and all was well. I made a mistake in driving the car for that two weeks. I should have left the car with the dealer and let them RENT me a Cadillac.

After a couple of months, the harness broke again. Same story, out of stock and it took a couple of weeks to get it.

Exactly 18 days ago, it broke again and, as of yesterday, the part had not been received and nobody knew when I might get one.

Cadillac insists that they have only had the problem on one other car and then only once. If that's the case, why is the part always out of stock?

Four dealers have this wiring harness in stock; but none of them will let them go. Could that be because they have had problems and know they're going to need them for their own customers?

When the dealer asked Cadillac what to do to stop the harness from breaking, Cadillac's only answer was, "Be sure it is routed right!" Wouldn't you think that after 3 replacements it would have been routed right on one of them including the one originally installed in the factory? It always breaks right after a turn.

I am totally convinced that the dealership has done everything they can do; but Cadillac has done NOTHING! And it would be so simple too. GM parts is out of the harness; but we all know that there are plenty of them just 45 miles down the road from the dealer at the assembly plant where they are made in Lansing. All it takes is for somebody with the clout to call there and have one sent to the dealer; but Cadillac has done NOTHING.

I was thrilled with the car and thrilled for Cadillac and thrilled for the American auto industry because I believed all the hype about fit, finish and quality. Now the bloom is really off the rose and it just feels like the same old S---, different day.

[navion]

I bought my 08 CTS last August. It has about every option they offer including the 304 HP Direct Injection engine. I just loved it and thought it was the best thing since sliced bread.

After a couple of months, however, a wiring harness broke. The car was drivable; but I lost my ABS, Traction Control, Stabilitrak and AWD. The dealer didn't have the part and GM had it on back order. After about two weeks it arrived and all was well. I made a mistake in driving the car for that two weeks. I should have left the car with the dealer and let them RENT me a Cadillac.

After a couple of months, the harness broke again. Same story, out of stock and it took a couple of weeks to get it.

Exactly 18 days ago, it broke again and, as of yesterday, the part had not been received and nobody knew when I might get one.

Cadillac insists that they have only had the problem on one other car and then only once. If that's the case, why is the part always out of stock?

Four dealers have this wiring harness in stock; but none of them will let them go. Could that be because they have had problems and know they're going to need them for their own customers?

When the dealer asked Cadillac what to do to stop the harness from breaking, Cadillac's only answer was, "Be sure it is routed right!" Wouldn't you think that after 3 replacements it would have been routed right on one of them including the one originally installed in the factory? It always breaks right after a turn.

I am totally convinced that the dealership has done everything they can do; but Cadillac has done NOTHING! And it would be so simple too. GM parts is out of the harness; but we all know that there are plenty of them just 45 miles down the road from the dealer at the assembly plant where they are made in Lansing. All it takes is for somebody with the clout to call there and have one sent to the dealer; but Cadillac has done NOTHING.

I was thrilled with the car and thrilled for Cadillac and thrilled for the American auto industry because I believed all the hype about fit, finish and quality. Now the bloom is really off the rose and it just feels like the same old S---, different day.

The first thing that I would do is get on the 800 number & INSIST that something be done NOW! If you get stonewalled, ask for that individual's supervisor. Keep moving up the chain until you get satisfaction. Tell them you want the factory rep to examine the car and one of the defective harnesses. The factory rep has a lot more clout than a service manager could ever have.

The second thing I would do is insist that they give you a loaner until yours is repaired. Tell then that you think that it is unsafe with all the ABS & suspension systems inop. Again, INSIST that they take care of this SAFETY ISSUE!

The third think is the problem it's self. The harness only breaks in a turn. That suggests that there is excessive movement between two of the attach points of the harness. Something as simple as a defective engine or transmission mount could cause stress to the harness.

Th other reason that comes to mind is that the harness was routed wrong when the car was built. If the tech is putting the harness back exactly as the one he is replacing, then he is not curing the problem, only the symptom.

Stop driving it. Get a Caddy loaner. Dealerships tend to work quicker & pull more strings when one of their cars is being loaned out and not available for sale.

Keep us posted.

Good Luck,

Britt[

[JimD]

You have been offered an unique opportunity here. An opportunity to alert-educate GM/Cadillac top management.

Ninety nine percent of the motoring public will accept the dealer's service department explanation of why the dealer can't do anything about a problem. The 99% will suffer through the dealer to a regional office to whatever level is next chain that can take months (years?) to navigate.

My approach would be to write a succinct one page letter, including copies of all the documentation you have, and mail it to the president of GM with a Return Receipt. A CC to your attorney would be good.

The "right" someone at GM/Cadillac is not aware a problem exists. That someone has the juice to fix your problem with a phone call. My experience is a "top-down" approach is much more productive than a "bottom-up" approach.

[Logan]

I can only find 1 GM bulletin that this may be related too.

Subject: Service All Wheel Drive Message DTC C0399

Models: 2008 Cadillac CTS

Equipped With AWD

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:

Customer may comment of a service all wheel drive message on in the DIC. Technicians may find a current or history DTC C0399 in the transfer case control module (TCCM).

Recommendation/Instructions:

If SI diagnostics does not lead to a resolution inspect the wiring harness at the right rear cylinder head for chaffing. Also inspect the wiring harness at the stand off bracket near the rear of the left cylinder head.

Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.

I understand your frustration being the parts are being used in Lansing. What you have to understand is GM manufacturing and GM service parts are 2 different GM divisions.

I'm sure Lansing is running a very limited JIT parts system. They may only have 50-100 harnesses in the plant at any given time. They will not risk shutting down the system for 1 harness.

Also, it's very hard to understand why, this car is having the 3 or 4th harness installed in a extremely short period of time. Maybe the dealer IS flubbing the harness install..? Doesnt make sense..

Can you be more specific on which harness is being damaged?

Can the dealer show you the damaged harness? If not, may be a intermittant problem they dont understand yet.

GM does actually test cars. To have 4 harnesses go 'bad' in 6 months...somethings up.

[Dasher]

Logan:

Both the ABS and Stabilitrak lamps are lighted on the dashboard.

In the DIC, the following messages appear:

Stabilitrak Off

All Wheel Drive Off

Service Brake Assist

Service Stabilitrak

Service Traction Control

I bought the car 8/17 and the repair order on 10/2 says:

ABS Light on SP ORD Part Here

C0040 RH Front Speed Sensor

Replaced RH front wheel speed sensor broken in half.

Parts.......Qty.................FP-Number ............Description...............Unit Price...

Job#1 1 25878148 Sensor 4.710

I guess that's as specific as I can get. I hope it means something to you.

On this occasion, I turned right into a parking lot, then left and then right again into a parking space and that's when all the bells started. On the previous occasion, I made a right turn and then two left turns into a parking space when the fun began. I can't really remember what happened the first time. I guess I wasn't aware that it was related to the turns. I can't know for sure; but I would guess the thing is under stress each time I turn and then breaks after a period of time because I noticed on two different occasions that the ABS and Stabilitrak lights would come on; but then go off after the ignition was turned off and on, only to come back on and stay on a couple of days later.

Each time I have inquired as to what was done to prevent the problem recurring. The first time there was a story that a part of the harness had not been properly seated in a "Guide" I think they called it.. The next time they said they found something (a foreign substance) in the guide and this was removed so the harness would seat properly in the guide.

Here's a laugh! I didn't take the car they offered me the first time because I knew everybody I know would ask where my car was and I didn't want to "embarrass" Cadillac that their new star had a problem. I'm no longer so sensitive on that subject. I have always been dead set against buying foreign cars; but now I understand why somebody would. (Of course I have always said that I would make an exception for a Bentley.)

When I first got the car I had several calls from GM people, even vice-presidents, about how I liked the car and how it was performing. Since the first problem with this harness, it's been like the day the chickens all died, not a peep.

[Cadillac Jim]

It's pretty clear to me that the dealer is flubbing the harness install. If steering the car breaks a wiring harness, then it's not routed properly. That's not GM's fault, other than the design that too many techs can't get right on replacement, but the timesert installation falls into that category too, so I would withold judgment on even that.

You said some magic words: you've had this fixed three times on a new car at the same dealer and it broke three times. In most states, that activates the Lemon Laws, which may ENTITLE YOU TO A NEW CAR OF EITHER THE SAME OR EQUIVALENT TYPE. Thus you may have termendous leverage.

What I would do at this time is call GM Customer Service. If you have OnStar, ask the OnStar operator for GM Customer Service and he/she will transfer you right on the spot and you can talk from the car. Otherwise get the number from your owner's manual and call from any phone. Have the registration ready and find the VIN on it before you call. Be nice and mention the three times, and you will be amazed at what they will do for you. Trust me, I've been there.

[catmendo]

i am glad that Jim brought up the lemon law, because if he had not, i was going to ...

here, is the S.C. lemon law ... http://www.scconsumer.gov/faqs/lemon_law.htm

if, i were you, i would just play dumb and ask them to fix it again,

instead of bitching about it, and let them dig their own grave ...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and as a side note ....

my brother, who is a lawyer, bought a ford bronco for his son with what, the stealership said, had

40,000 miles on it and at 70,000 miles it needed a clutch ??? and i noticed that the the vec. was

sagging on the left side and crawled under it to look for bent leaf springs and noticed that there

was oil coming out all around the hogshead (rear end) so i told him about it, and said, that it was

insane for both the clutch and the rearend problem ... he ran a car fax on it and it showed repair

work a couple of times, at well over 100,000 miles ... and since he was car faxing, he check out his

used toyota land cruiser and low and behold the same deal ... the bronco was bought, from one

of the biggest dealerships in town, and my town is Columbia S.C., which is the states capital and i found

it hard to believe that they didn't know... like they can't and do, car fax too ... needless to say, they were

happy to take the bronco back and try to make him happy, but if i were him being a lawyer, they

would not just have made me happy... they would of made me, real happy, because the clutch problem

was not the first prob. but one of a few ...

my brother wanted to blame his son for raising hell in it ... live and learn ...

i only buy a used car, from people that i know, who bought it new if i can help it ...

Lane

[Cadillac Jim]

In the early 1980's I bought a Pontiac T1000 (think Chevette) from a Boston area Chevrolet dealer's used car lot for my wife to drive to work and it gave some exotic problems. I noticed that the battery had an Avis maintenance sticker on it when I was taking it back to the parts store for the core charge. After the front damper wheel came off on Route 128 one evening as she was coming home and stranded her, I had the title searched through the Commonwealth of Massachusetts (there was nothing like CarFAX at that time) and lo and behold, it was an Avis car that had its title laundered for a few months while it was for sale on their lot. My lawyer said that the amount recovered would just about equal his fee, so we went back to them with the title search data and asked for the credit to trade it on a new Chevette. Their offer was to take us for another $3K or so on the deal, relative to bluebook wholesale on the T1000 and a reasonable price for the Chevette.

We bought a new Ford, trading in my 1977 Malibu, kept the T1000 for a few more months and sold it for a reasonable price for a college kid to drive around campus, moved to California and bought another used Ford, a Tempo.

We were looking in California before we bought the Tempo for my wife. We found that American car dealers in the L.A. area marked all their cars up $2K+ over sticker price. We were looking at used cars on the lot of a Chrysler dealer in an Irvine auto park and the salesman told us we could have any car on the lot for $3K. I wrote him a check and picked out one, after noticing that all the cars seemed to be in the 45,000 mile to 60,000 mile range but all the speedometers read 33,000 miles and change. You could see the pick marks on the odometer wheels on all of them. They wanted another $1K so I wrote another check. While I was waiting for the paperwork they asked for another $1K check -- and I asked for my checks back. They faded into the woodwork and waited for me to leave. When I figured out that no one would let me near them, I wandered into the deal-closing area and started saying over and over again, a little louder each time, "I want my checks back!!!" After a few customers started looking like they wanted to bolt, they came trotting out and gave me my checks back. One of the salesmen followed me back to the car babbling a bunch of street-con BS, pushing buttons, trying to get information on finances; apparently no one comes there and writes a check for a car. I thought about calling the Orange County Sheriff for weeks but never did.

I didn't come back to GM until I was looking for my next car. I was thinking Taurus SHO (24-valve Yamaha V6) but was working for Hughes Aircraft Company which offered a discount on GM products. I was browsing those before I went to Las Vegas to buy the Ford -- the L.A. area is just wrong to buy an new American car -- except a Cadillac! -- and discovered the Pontiac Grand Am GT with Level 3 suspension and the Quad 4 HO.

It's a jungle out there. Caveat emptor.

[Bruce Nunnally]

C0040 RH Front Speed Sensor

Replaced RH front wheel speed sensor broken in half.

This does not sound like a harness, if the Speed Sensor is breaking?

For the speed sensor to physically break in half it seems that there must be something contacting it.

Do you have stock wheels/tires on your CTS?

[Dasher]

I just posted this; but it has not appeared on the board so here goes again...

First, see my earlier post entitled, "It's the same old story at GM."

This morning I called to talk to the dealership president. He wasn't in so I talked to his sister who is the vice president. After I explained my problem, she said, "Ill get back with you in ten minutes." She called back and said she had talked to the tech and to her brother and said, "We think you should have a new car.

I'll be 80 tomorrow and I've never come so close to passing out in my life.

To make a long story short, I came home with my new 08 CTS this afternoon. It has the wood wheel and gear shift and navigation which the other one didn't have and lists for $4,235 more than the last one and I paid less for an up front 36 month lease. This car was subject to discounts and the first one wasn't. I did have to pay for the nine months I used the other car on a strictly pro-rata basis.

I'm still stunned.

[BodybyFisher]

Good for you! Devine intervention.... GM has come a long way... Post photos, you will love the navigation...

[Bruce Nunnally]

That type of customer service is what I like to hear about Cadillac Dealers! I am glad you got a good solution; sounds like a great new CTS.

[Texas Jim]

Dasher,

I am happy to hear that everything turned out ok for you.

I know you will enjoy your new CTS. What color is it?

Post pics.

[Dasher]

OK, here are the pictures as requested. (Actually, it's the old one; but you can't tell the difference from the outside) I hope I did this right

[lothos]

That's a sharp looking car. I'm glad everything worked out for you.

[Cadillac Jim]

I've had similar excellent experiences at several Cadillac dealers, but nothing of this magnitude. The way GM runs things for Cadillac, there is no such thing as a bad Cadillac dealer. The techs are another matter, but even then I always suggest that, given 3 months, a dealership can fix a problem with Service.

The financial arrangements were fair for the dealer too, since you paid rental for the other car for the time you had it. By voiding the lease and letting you have another car, they solved everyone's problems. They can now have techs drive the car and call on Regional for assistance to get it straightened out, without the pressure of a customer driving a loaner or rental. When they do get it straightened out, they can lease or sell it as a low-mileage 2008 with warranty.

[catmendo]

and the lesson to be learned here, fellow wrench turners is...

the squeaky wheel, gets the grease ...

and, as a side note ... darn, that is a beautiful car ...

[catmendo]

sorry, my bad, i had no idea that if i used the most innocent, of so called bad words, that it would automatically be edited ... has anyone watched local TV lately ??? darn-it ...

[adallak]

I just posted this; but it has not appeared on the board so here goes again...

First, see my earlier post entitled, "It's the same old story at GM."

This morning I called to talk to the dealership president. He wasn't in so I talked to his sister who is the vice president. After I explained my problem, she said, "Ill get back with you in ten minutes." She called back and said she had talked to the tech and to her brother and said, "We think you should have a new car.

I'll be 80 tomorrow and I've never come so close to passing out in my life.

To make a long story short, I came home with my new 08 CTS this afternoon. It has the wood wheel and gear shift and navigation which the other one didn't have and lists for $4,235 more than the last one and I paid less for an up front 36 month lease. This car was subject to discounts and the first one wasn't. I did have to pay for the nine months I used the other car on a strictly pro-rata basis.

I'm still stunned.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU, DASHER!