can we blame them???

[Bruce Nunnally]

Unions are not inherently bad. Lots of good people build cars. Some of them choose to belong to Unions because the Unions help them receive better pay and benefits than if they did not belong. All the current, past, and future union agreements were negotiated with management.

Toyota pays their US auto workers more than they pay in other markets; it is a problem they are trying to solve.

Toyota pays their US auto workers less than equivalent jobs at GM/Ford plants.

The value of the Yen vs the Dollar is directly effected by the Japanese banks, and adds $Ks of profit per Japanese car.

Cars made in Mexico and Canada are made in America. The continent of North America includes all three. Yes, people here in the US often use American = USA, but it is not literally correct.

I do feel cars made in US plants are preferable over cars made overseas from a jobs point of view, regardless of brand.

GM makes more cars worldwide than Toyota. Hardly a losing position.

Porsche, Mercedes, VW, (everyone else except GM) all make fewer cars than Toyota. Those companies are frequently profitable anyway. GM is profitable right now (we think; results being rewritten still). As long as they continue to be profitable, and to build no more vehicles than they can sell profitably, all is well.

I don't want to drive a Camry.

[Patrick7997]

Well, a wide-ranging thread, to be sure....

I have to say, I basically agree with a lot of Bbf's posts here....

The idea of a level playing field is a critically important one, and one that is totally being ignored by our Congress and our Press... and yet it is vital to the survival of our country as we know it to get a handle on this, right now.... to that idea, 2 points:

1. These people who say "we're in a global economy" make me ill, to be honest, because we're not. We're in a global situation where every morning we get a large object inserted into a rearward orifice... I say that because OUR US MARKETS are WIDE OPEN to foreign mfgrs dumping their goods here, while at the same time, those foreign markets are CLOSED to US and North American companies who want to sell there. Is that fair? NO!!! Is it Congress's job to do something about that, to protect domestic jobs, domestic security, and domestic interests?? YES!!! Is Congress doing their job?? NO!!! China dumps everything here, yet we can't sell anything in China without enormous tariffs, and enormous legal hurdles to us even being there, doing business at all. That is patently unfair, and should be addressed by Congress. The same is true with dozens of other countries who are enjoying a positive trade balance with the US... and it's not fair, and it's not right... The US, meanwhile, continues to enjoy record trade deficits.. $60 Billion dollars a month, that's a good chunk of change....

2. Trade Balances bring me to my second point about fairness, re the Japanese. Some comments in this thread touch on the Japanese Central Bank, and then yen. Now, the Yen policy does not necessarily guarantee Toyota a profit, or a bigger profit. What the weak Yen DOES do is make sure that Toyotas remain LOW PRICED in foreign markets... if the Yen strengthened, a Toyota would cost MORE DOLLARS to buy... which could HURT Toyota sales in the US. Now, in stark contrast to the US Congress, What the Japanese gov't seems to be doing is ordering Japan's Central Bankers to KEEP THE YEN LOW, Which in turn protects Toyota, Honda, all Japanese Exporters, by making sure their goods stay competitively priced overseas, thus protecting their domestic economy and their domestic jobs, and maintaining their juicy positive trade balance... The US Congress should get out their pencils and take a few notes on that....

People need to understand that these things are going on.... it's not that we can't compete. It's that we're competing with both arms tied around our back, and big surprise, we're getting hammered....

It is my opinion that domestic cars (and we'll have to include North America I guess, because I am aware that my Eldorado came from Canada... My Tahoe came from Janesville Wisconsin though, and my Harley came from here, so, on balance, I feel okay about that) have improved greatly since the mid 80's... I personally feel that they are "on par" with the Japanese... some may disagree, and that's fine.

Couple years or so ago, I got an 04 Olds Alero for my Mom... yeah, the last of the Olds. Having driven the car, ridden in the car, I personally feel it's as nice as a Camry, and Nicer than a VW Passat... and was cheaper than both. It's been a couple years now, it has no issues. Starts, runs great, rides great, nothing wrong.

I'd like to see the car reviewers someday "get over" their pro-asian biases, and start giving GM products a fair shake, which I feel is overdue.... Toyota is in a dogfight over these sludged engines, and their huge recalls of the past couple years, and yet, you have to dig very hard to find one word of press about it... when GM does a recall, it's front page news, for some reason....

I have layed this all out to my so-called representatives in the Congress, and I'm quite sure they have a little wastebasket at their office where they ceremoniously throw my letters.... maybe if they got 1000 letters a week, instead of just the one, it would make an impression....

Nuff said.

[stsjoe]

This is what's great about Caddyinfo, lots of different backgrounds, views, opinions and arguments. All civil and all cause you to think.

Joe

[JimD]

....

The idea of a level playing field is a critically important one, and one that is totally being ignored by our Congress and our Press... and yet it is vital to the survival of our country as we know it to get a handle on this, right now....

If a level playing field means import restrictions or tariffs, do not hold your breath. No Legislative branch members and no Administrative branch CEO will propose or enact or sign into law any meaningfull import restrictions. Not ever. It has been tried in the past and proven to be a dismal failure.

In all fairness to the folks we send to DC, they do not act (or fail to act) in a vacuum. Congress has the power to subpoena testimony from recognized experts in any and all fields. And those recognized experts are not suggesting the Congress should stop the imports!

Yes, the welfare of the residents and companies of Michigan is important, but the welfare of the entire country trumps any indivual state.

It is my opinion that domestic cars (and we'll have to include North America I guess, because I am aware that my Eldorado came from Canada...

You don't mean built in Canada, do you?

I have layed this all out to my so-called representatives in the Congress, and I'm quite sure they have a little wastebasket at their office where they ceremoniously throw my letters.... maybe if they got 1000 letters a week, instead of just the one, it would make an impression....

Nuff said.

Your elected officials love to get mail; but their staff does the reading. The official "might" hear a 10 second summary of 1,000 letters while trotting down the hall to an important meeting.

[Catch Me]

As we all know there are tariffs on the cars and trucks brought into this country. So saying that China Japan etc has more tariffs than the US has just may not be the case.

I have no idea of what tariffs are imposed on US goods going to other countries. For all I know these tariffs are the same as the ones the US puts on imported goods.

Has anyone thought that maybe the reason other countries do not buy US made goods could be due to the high cost and poor quality of the products made here these days?

And.

Why should congress impose higher tatiffs on imported goods? So the people of the US are forced into buying the cheap over priced crap made in this country? I think not.

Enough with blaming everybody in the world and congress because the US can not sell the over priced crap they make.

Want fair world trade? Then make a product that will last and sell it at a reasonable price.

What reason is there for any other country to buy the goods made in the US when in most cases a like product is made better for less in their own country?

Even if there were no tariffs on US made goods in other countries the US could not compete is my guess.

Labor cost is out of control . Unskilled union labor is making a killing at the US auto makers.

Again, just why are we paying someone 60k a year for turning a freaking screw all day?

Bring on the monkeys and get rid of the unions at the US auto makers. A days work for a days pay isn't it?

My goodness $40,000.00 for a cheap car or pick up? Weren't pick up trucks like 3k in the 70"s?

Are the trucks that much better? NO.

What hard good has gone up in cost in this country more than anything else in the last 20 years?

Remember when it was a big joke if someone bought a radio or other small product that was made in Japan because it was thought the product would break in minutes?

Well guess what? The coin has turned.

Lets face it. The world now looks at the US made products as cheap junk and worse yet at a very high cost as well.

Time to stop passing the buck. Congress is not at fault. Tariffs in the world market are not the cause. The price and product is to blame.

I doubt we have any problem with exporting the crops grown in this country.

Its the hard goods the world has said no thank you to.

[BodybyFisher]

The US and the EU have in recent days turned to the WTO to tackle the "illegal imposition" of tariffs on foreign car parts used in assembly plants in China. Beijing must respond to this charge in the coming days and if an agreement is not reached, the matter will pass into the hands of the WTO.

Both the EU and the US complain that Beijing has failed to fully open its domestic market, while Chinese products have flooded their markets. Moreover, Washington has accused China of keeping its currency too low and not stopping the widespread counterfeiting of expensive Western brand name products.

Beijing (AsiaNews/SCMP) – Differences between China and the West on trade matters are rising. The European Union has introduced duties on Chinese shoes and together with United States it is calling for the intervention of the World Trade Organisation (WTO) against the imposition of tariffs on car parts imports used to make cars in China. Meanwhile, Tokyo has accused China of posing a military threat as Beijing is busy acquiring uranium from Australia.

Sounds ominous to me......but I am glad that we are standing up to try to create a level playing field.

http://www.americaneconomicalert.org/news_...asp?NID=1996158

[kensala313]

nice job getting out fish. i hope to argue with you again soon.

[RichieR]

The truth of the matter is that Cadillac has always set the precedent for luxury car features. So if you see a feature on your Toyota Avalon, you can rest assured that Cadillac developed and introduced it. My brother has an '04 Nissan Maxima and while I'll admit it's a very good car, it doesn't even come close to my new CTS in ride, handling, and fit and finish. As far as Toyota goes, I never liked the styling. They improved the look of the new Camry, but last year's model was very bland.

The real problem is that people don't have a mind of their own to make informed decisions. They follow other people's lead not necessarily because something is good or bad, but just because someone else has it.

[BodybyFisher]

nice job getting out fish. i hope to argue with you again soon.

There is a difference between discussing and arguing, and as you just pointed out, you like to argue! I prefer not to argue. I equate arguing with thickheads to wrestling with pigs. When you wrestle with pigs you only get dirty and the pig enjoys it.. there is no point to it... I think I proved you were biased against GM and pro-toyota with the fact that you missed the GM/BMW union 4 years ago, to produce hydrogen powered vehicles... I don't need to waste my time ramming my points home, I think enough of our members have made my point..there will always be thick heads, look at the last election we are split 50/50, only time will tell.

The Asian car makers are great at following and copying, they are not trend setters. Many of their styling designs/cues/aspects are stolen from Mercedes and BMW, they are NOT original thinkers. They COPY..but they copy really good. They do this over and over and over, China is the world leader in stealing ideas and products copying them, making knock offs and making them cheaper and smaller..

Personally I think GM is doing a great job considering where they have come from. It took GM ten to 15 years to change direction (1975 to 1990). IMHO, they have been on an upswing ever since. Before that, they built huge, heavy, gas eating, powerful high emission land yachts and they were successful at it. In WW2 they built a TANK with the Turbo Hydromatic Transmission in it, the Cadillac styling was modelled after B17 and B29 bombers. The 50s and 60s were a really exciting and successful time in the American car industry. The US roads were wide and fast and gas was cheap. In 1972, I paid $0.33 a gallon in a Hess station, $2.00 worth got you 6 gallons. There was NO motivation to improve gas mileage. On the contrary, Japan built small, underpowered, light, cheap government subsidized cars and as a result they got better gas mileage, so they had a head start. They were cheap rust buckets in the beginning, we laughed at them. THEN, I can remember syphoning gas in 1973 during the gas crisis when I was in college and waiting on long lines to get gas with my 66 Cadillac Convertible:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis My guess is you weren't born yet..

Having played high level college basketball in my life, its never over till its over, that is what creates my positive outlook in life.. My teams have been down 20 points with three minutes to go and we won games......anyone that didn't believe they were going to win, might as well hit the showers.

GM is doing a great job, the Congress didnt help, so GM is doing it their own way, as they continue to level the playing field by getting rid of onerous salaries, pensions and unions... which has ultimately hurt the American auto worker and his standard of living.. and THAT I blame on Congress not GM. Contrast GM to Chrysler who was saved by the US Government once and then brought by Benz and Ford who is dying a slow death with poor management decisions, poor financial decisions and poor vehicles.

[WarrenJ]

The real problem is that people don't have a mind of their own to make informed decisions. They follow other people's lead not necessarily because something is good or bad, but just because someone else has it.

That's pretty sad, but I'd have to agree its true more often than not. OTOH, it also has its advantages.

If, for example, you anticipate the purchase of something less life changing or wallet emptying than a car or home, it can be a comfort and convenience to quickly select an item that folk whose judgement you know and respect have already judged to be "good." Big time saver there; especially important in this fast paced, hectic world we live in.

That said, some things remain important: car purchases, home purchases, and presidential votes should have some serious thought attached to them.

Regards,

Warren

[GreenMachine]

Toyota does you UAW workers on some models, but other models it doesn't. I think I read that that the US made corralla is UAW built but the Canadian built version is not Union.

[kdaddy]

Thank you Bruce for your clarity. I was wondering how long it would be before you chimed in. Thank you thank you. As I said in a previous response our dollar is getting weaker and weaker because our dollars are flowing out of the country. I don't car if toyota has plants here in the US. The dollars still flow to the parent company located in Japan, thus the trade imbalance. I stick by my 4 responses to the problem.

[JasonA]

It's also interesting to look at the numbers of domestic car sales.

2006 saw an estimated 15.8 million new vehicle sales in the United States. Of those:

GM: 30.8%

Ford: 20.1%

Chrysler: 17.3%

Toyota: 11.3%

Honda: 10.1%

Nissan: 5.5%

Others: 4.9%

Much is made of Toyota possibly overtaking GM in total world sales this year. The picture appears quite different for our country. Almost ONE THIRD of new vehicle sales (almost 5,000,000 vehicles) go to GM, and 68.2% of new vehicle sales is to a domestic auto maker. Toyota still has a long row to hoe before it overtakes American automakers in America.

I'd also like to point out that domestic part content is often not discussed, but is a big part of what goes into making a car. Is Toyota, in general, more like to use Asian-sourced parts than GM? I don't know. Our Dodge Grand Caravan is 88% domestic. Is a Sienna 88% domestic? Kudos to Toyota if it is. If it's not, and/or not even close, that's where the discussion ends for me. The source of the parts has at least as much contribution to an economy than does the actual assembly labor which, as GM reminded us already, is heavily non-human already.

[WarrenJ]

As I said in a previous response our dollar is getting weaker and weaker because our dollars are flowing out of the country.

Sorry, I don't quite understand that. Would you care to expand?

Regards,

Warren

[kensala313]

nice job getting out fish. i hope to argue with you again soon.

There is a difference between discussing and arguing, and as you just pointed out, you like to argue! I prefer not to argue. I equate arguing with thickheads to wrestling with pigs. When you wrestle with pigs you only get dirty and the pig enjoys it.. there is no point to it... I think I proved you were biased against GM and pro-toyota with the fact that you missed the GM/BMW union 4 years ago, to produce hydrogen powered vehicles... I don't need to waste my time ramming my points home, I think enough of our members have made my point..there will always be thick heads, look at the last election we are split 50/50, only time will tell.

The Asian car makers are great at following and copying, they are not trend setters. Many of their styling designs/cues/aspects are stolen from Mercedes and BMW, they are NOT original thinkers. They COPY..but they copy really good. They do this over and over and over, China is the world leader in stealing ideas and products copying them, making knock offs and making them cheaper and smaller..

Personally I think GM is doing a great job considering where they have come from. It took GM ten to 15 years to change direction (1975 to 1990). IMHO, they have been on an upswing ever since. Before that, they built huge, heavy, gas eating, powerful high emission land yachts and they were successful at it. In WW2 they built a TANK with the Turbo Hydromatic Transmission in it, the Cadillac styling was modelled after B17 and B29 bombers. The 50s and 60s were a really exciting and successful time in the American car industry. The US roads were wide and fast and gas was cheap. In 1972, I paid $0.33 a gallon in a Hess station, $2.00 worth got you 6 gallons. There was NO motivation to improve gas mileage. On the contrary, Japan built small, underpowered, light, cheap government subsidized cars and as a result they got better gas mileage, so they had a head start. They were cheap rust buckets in the beginning, we laughed at them. THEN, I can remember syphoning gas in 1973 during the gas crisis when I was in college and waiting on long lines to get gas with my 66 Cadillac Convertible:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis My guess is you weren't born yet..

Having played high level college basketball in my life, its never over till its over, that is what creates my positive outlook in life.. My teams have been down 20 points with three minutes to go and we won games......anyone that didn't believe they were going to win, might as well hit the showers.

GM is doing a great job, the Congress didnt help, so GM is doing it their own way, as they continue to level the playing field by getting rid of onerous salaries, pensions and unions... which has ultimately hurt the American auto worker and his standard of living.. and THAT I blame on Congress not GM. Contrast GM to Chrysler who was saved by the US Government once and then brought by Benz and Ford who is dying a slow death with poor management decisions, poor financial decisions and poor vehicles.

ar·gue /ˈɑrgyu/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ahr-gyoo] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -gued, -gu·ing. –verb (used with object)

–verb (used without object)

1. to present reasons for or against a thing: He argued in favor of capital punishment.

2. to contend in oral disagreement; dispute: The Senator argued with the President about the new tax bill.

3. to state the reasons for or against: The lawyers argued the case.

4. to maintain in reasoning: to argue that the news report must be wrong.

5. to persuade, drive, etc., by reasoning: to argue someone out of a plan.

6. to show; prove; imply; indicate: His clothes argue poverty.

Well Fish, you are wiser and more experienced than I, I must admit. I am just a 20 year old Horticulture college student who wants to save money by working on his first cadillac, what do I know about the auto industry??? proabaly the same amount as you did when you were 20. no i wasn't born when you were siphoning gas in 1973 in your '66 cadillac convertible, which im sure you will never forget........

But do you think i will ever forget going out to one of the only country-side roads we have left in the SF Bay area and doing a few WOTR to blow out the northstar, and to show my first love why its called a touring sedan?

I too know whats its like to be down and then come back. when i was in middle school, i was the strongest on the bball court. but high school, beer, and pot changed that. 1 year ago i weighed 243 pounds in fat and couldnt get up a flight of stairs without breathing hard. i cut down to 200 lbs, then bulked up in muscle to where i am now at 213 lbs. I can also now run 4 miles in about 45 mins. not bad for a fat boy who trains hard 6 days a week. But i know i still have alot of work to do in my dedecated body building lifestyle.

Yes, GM is doing great, but if the american auto worker is being hurt, and soem american auto companies are going down hill, the truth is it doesnt look too good for the american auto industry, and it does look like a good time for foreign auto companies to come in and take over. The times are defentaley changing.......

My next door neighbor Ron of 11 years is 65 years old. He still has and drives his first car a 1920's ford. he drove and loved fords his entire life, currently driving a 1992 ford explorer with over 170,000 miles on it. I, and im sure Ron, disagree with you when you said ford should have never introduced the explorer to the market. When it was time for my neighbor Ron to retire, his company of over 40 years gave him some money to purchase a vehicle as a thank you gift. Ron decided his wisest option would be to purchase a TOYOTA seqioua SUV, rather than a ford. He decided this due to its low price, long lasting TOYOTA reputation, and good fuel economy. Fuel now days is very expensive, up to $3.00 a gallon in some places. He is confident that it will be the last vehicle he will ever purchase. In 1992, the SUV was the latest TREND. They were just begeninng to come around, and the the enginering on them could use more development. but as years have gone on, and the enginereing progressed, the SUV now is a standard vehicle on every american road, and alot of them are foreign.

Im sure there were times when your college bball team battled against a team that you just couldn't beat. although you guys proabaly never gave up, in your brains and in your hearts, deep down inside, you knew you just couldnt win the game, beacause the other team wouldnt break and held their momentum. The american auto industry will never give up, but i think deep down inside we can see that TOYOTA IS JUST TOO STRONG. they will not break, and their momentum in America is very very powerful. The american auto industry is over the hill and into the valley, and although the Japaneese market hasnt peaked at the top of the hill, they are climbing up at a rapid pace. The same thing has happened with electronics and consumer goods, the majority of them bought and used in america were made in japan. the auto industry is next. You, my friend, are looking back on the past because you are older and experienced. i am young, strong, and looking into the future.

Fish, i am a prince among my people. i bow down to no man, but i will gladly shake your hand. If you call out and attack my opinion, i will defend it till the end with everything ive got.

[GreenMachine]

All I know about parts sourceing is the made in mexico parts (power antenna, door window buttons) seem to die alot on these cars, I'm glade to see that on the new vehicles GM has switched to a less cheap feeling button scheme

[BodybyFisher]

So I admit, Japan, China and Korea are kicking the United States AZZ. I am 53 years old and have 27 and 21 year old sons... Me, my life is over, I am made my choices, what are my sons and their children and YOU going to do? So you are RIGHT...... Toyota is KICKING the US's AZZ, and YOU feel good about that? Please do not respond with any venom, GM, FORD and CHRYSLER are going away just like the ELECTRONICS industry did... but the reasons are not related to quality, they are a lot deeper than that. Its not simple. Try reading the article below and look at how SONY, Panasonic and Phillips think,

In 1991, the CEO of Sony said, The US has taught the world all it knows, it doesnt have anything else to teach the world....

Read these highlights, of this article from 1992!:

http://core.ecu.edu/mgmt/simerlyr/Outsourcing.htm

Outsourcing and Industrial Decline

The improper use of outsourcing is playing an important role in the continuing competitive decline of many Western firms. A notable example of the role outsourcing can play in the process of industrial decline is the US consumer electronics industry. Western managers often view outsourcing as a defensive operational measure. The approach tends to be incremental. A whole series of incremental outsourcing decisions, taken individually, may make economic sense, but collectively they may also represent the surrender of the business's capability to compete.

Copyright Academy of Management Feb 1992

"American companies have either shifted output to low-wage countries or come to buy parts and assembled products from countries like Japan that can make quality products at low prices. The result is a hollowing of American industry. The U.S. is abandoning its status as an industrial power."(1)

--Akio Morita CEO, Sony Corp. 1986

Our research on outsourcing has led us to three general conclusions that are discussed in the remainder of this article.

1. A defensive incremental approach to outsourcing decisions, often driven by a general lack of competitiveness in manufacturing, can initiate a spiral of decline that ultimately leaves firms without the skills and competences they need to compete.

2. Outsourcing firms often make four questionable assumptions:

* Strategy primarily involves competitive position in the market place.

* Brand share is defensible without manufacturing share.

* Design and manufacturing are separable.

* Market knowledge is separable from manufacturing.

3. Properly understood and managed outsourcing can be an important part of overall strategy.

THE PROCESS OF DECLINE

"If everything else is equal--equal service, equal cost, equal quality--then why have the assets yourself? You can reduce your asset base by buying from the outside, and you can get a better return on the investments that you do make."(8)

--Ernest C. Huge Principal, Ernst and Young

DESIGN AND MANUFACTURING ARE SEPARABLE

"First you move the industrial part to the Far East. Then the development of the product goes there because each dollar you pay to the overseas supplier is ten cents you're giving them to develop new devices and new concepts to compete against you."(11)

C.J. Van der Klugt Former Vice Chairman, Phillips M.V

Many managers believe that by retaining the product design function in-house they could protect the product core technology and hence a major source of competitive advantage. This view implicitly assumes that design and manufacturing can be separated. In the past, many Western firms separated responsibilities and used temporal sequencing between product design and manufacturing. This approach often resulted in poor coordination of design and manufacturing, added substantially to lead times, and slowed skill and competence accumulation. Using cross-functional teams including product development and manufacturing has become popular precisely because it can increase coordination and reduce lead times. Ultimately, this means a better product quicker. As one large study points out, such a concurrent approach is a fundamental aspect of the lean production systems of Japanese automobile manufacturers.(12) For example, at Toyota the product design cycle takes about three years, whereas it takes four or five years in Detroit. Furthermore, the Toyota product is generally judged to be more innovative and of higher quality than its counterparts from Detroit

CONCLUSION

"We are going to win and the industrial west is going to lose out; there is not much you can do about it because the reasons for your failure are within yourselves."(13)

--Konosuke Matsushita Founder of Matsushita (Panasonic)

As Pogo put it, "We have met the enemy and they is us." Outsourcing is a tool of management and like any other tool it can be used properly or abused. Unfortunately, the penalties that abuse brings can be severe and even fatal. Proper use requires a clear understanding of the nature of technological competences and skills, and their crucial role in sustaining competitive advantage. Developing such an understanding and implanting it in the organization, its strategy, and its financial control system is not easy. For some, a slow but steadily increasing competitive decline, disguised behind early and temporary brand share and profit victories, may seem preferable to making hard decisions today.

[kensala313]

well maybe its for the better if america abondons its status as an industrial power. The US has gotten about everything they can out industry, there is nothing left for us in the big picture concerning industry. our assembly lines are now robots, and our factories are replaced with skyscrapers. as a student, i can see that what kids are learning in school is changing. there are no longer wood shop, auto shop, or metal shop classes, which will prepare someone for a life working in a industrial world. the schools job is to prepare children for the future and introduce new material in the classroom. In the fall, i will transfer to a university and study ENVIROMENTAL SCIENCE. it focuses on problems that every single living thing on planet earth has to deal with. The polar ice caps are melting very rapidly, we cannot produce enough electricty to run california, the ozone layer is deteriorating, our cities are turning into crime infested murder zones, we are producing too much waste with no where to put it, and we need a hydrogen motor for our autos. Protecting the enviroment and where we live is something we need start focusing on NOW. alot of waste and pollution comes from large factories, hydraulic mines, manufactoring plants and other industrial job sites. it is time to clean up the mess we made and figure out the alternatives. when we do get things figured out, we will be able to go to work on them, which will open up new goverment programs, new jobs, and new needs to produce goods. We are currently falling into an economic valley, but will come out when the time is right, just as we came out of the depression. until then, we will fight an unnessacary war in iraq while we try so despertley to hang on to what we once had.

P.S. im diggin the new signiture. looks clean, bling! bling!

[JimD]

....The US has gotten about everything they can out industry, there is nothing left for us in the big picture concerning industry....

So we might as well lay down, roll over, and abandon the fight? Break out the white flags, boys; there is no point in fighting another day. With that attitude, we would all be saluting the Union Jack.

....The polar ice caps are melting very rapidly, we cannot produce enough electricty to run california, the ozone layer is deteriorating....

Wherever you go to chase after higher eductaion, I hope you get accepted at a school that encourages students to challenge tradional concepts and question the status quo. Learn to question the facts behind the ice cap; learn how much ozone is the required amount; learn how much CO2 is necessary to sustain human life on earth.

And possibly rethink the difference between Hollywood, media and reality. Al Gore is trained as an attorney, not a scientist.

....open up new goverment programs, new jobs....

Government is the problem, not the answer.

....we will fight an unnessacary war in iraq while we try so despertley to hang on to what we once had.

There is the concept of fighting an enemy in their backyard rather than your backyard.

Good luck with your education; try to avoid swallowing the pablum. Train yourself to think and question.

[Cadillac Jim]

All these things are based on the assumption that things are going to remain as they were the day before yesterday. Anyone who plays chess knows that the decision to make a move is based on what is expected in the future, not what has been done in the past. The assumption of many foreigners is that U.S. industry does not have a plan but moves toward the nearest dollar much as a protozoan moves toward the light, and that the corporate business plan has a 90 day horizon -- the time of the next FTC disclosure of financial results, whichever comes first, with no vision or plan other than to make money in the most immediately obvious way. With this model, the Toreador always wins, and the bloodied and dazed bull moves numbly toward the sword and the coup de grace. This view is supported by the 90-day cycle of U.S. business news, and the activities of some investors that try to milk corporations, like Krikorian.

Nothing could be farther form the truth, though. Recall the Battle of Silicon Valley, when Japan was going to wipe IC's, ASICs, and semiconductors from the USA? Remember the novel and movie, Rising Sun, on the emerging dominance of Japan Inc. in everything -- but was overcome by events before the movie came out by word market revaluing of the Yen? How many of you know that the best-selling motorcycle in the USA is Harley Davidson, in spite of the fact that the average price of a Harley is about two to three times the price of a large Japanese motorcycle? How many of you know that the best-selling motorcycle in Japan is... Harley Davidson?

Most corporations have a 5-year plan that is updated yearly. All of them are aware of Japan, Inc. So is Congress.

The auto industry suffered a blow due to the 50% increase in gas prices last summer, and those who depend most on the lower-priced SUVs were hit hardest. That's the USA Big 3. The Japanese and European manufacturers never moved away from their domestically-driven smaller models. This is not due to any innate success of non-USA automotive manufacturers.

[BodybyFisher]

I am not a big fan of CNN, but Lou Dobbs is an exception and he just did a spot on the Middle Class, education, outsourcing, etc.. and I was very impressed, it appears to be based on a book he wrote, called "War on the Middle Class: How the Government, Big Business, and Special Interest Groups are Waging War on the American Dream and How to Fight Back," He took the words out of my mouth...

If I was about to graduate from college, I would be a nervous wreck with the direction of this country.

Here is a summary:

Dobbs tackles the issues that are on the top of so many American’s minds, including: the deplorable state of our health care and public education systems, corporate outsourcing of jobs, immigration and border patrol, and of course, the state of our nation in general under the current political administration.

In particular, Dobbs takes an impassioned and rousing stance on the all-out class war that is turning the American dream into a nightmare, particularly for our dwindling middle class, and proposes a series of measures to resolve each issue he brings to the fore and incite people to preserve their rights and dreams. "War on the Middle Class" is provocative, incendiary, and bound to be widely discussed—the perfect book to establish the terms of debate in this year’s midterm elections.

[2000 STS MN]

Large Appraisal Companies are now shipping their Argus analysis to India to be performed....along with confidential lease and operating expense information on our real estate... whats next

I don't think we need to run down the types of jobs that are leaving we have done that before. How are our children going to survive.

This seems to be getting off track of Cadillac issues, but I needed to say a few words on this thread.

Well I have been laying back in the weeds for months sponging up a lot of great info from many previous threads, what an awesome web site and wealth of information. Somebody commented back a ways"this is a Caddy discussion group and if you want to *smurf* or bash GM.....go somewhere else!" There are a number of great cars out there but believe this is a Pro-Cadillac discussion group. It is very evident that there are numerous passionate Cadillac enthusiast in this group. It seems like the newer members are challenging the older loyalists and "I am American and proud of it and what this country has accomplished". I am also 53 of age and have been in manufacturing for 33 yrs with the same company . I am very passionate about manufacturing and engineering in this country.... the Northstar, what an engineering marvel I personally could not purchase a Toyota orLexus...I just cannot do it. Times are changing with the new work force coming in. We are procuring a project for Boeing, the transport plane for the 787 Dreamliner. It is a modified 747. What amazed me was the majority of the fuselage is engineered in Russia and the swing zone section was engineered in Spain. We machine the parts and send them to China for assembly! Our customers are telling us they do not have the Engineering man power here in the states to support this huge effort. . This scares me to say the least. We are taking on more engineering then ever before due to down staffing at these large companies and the numbers are way down in our colleges. To your point "what is our future going to be for my children and yours. This country has the highest school drop out rate than any country and India screens boys/girls with engineering potential in grade school to go on to year around schooling to be able to attend their colleges for engineering. I have a favorite saying at work " If you don't take care of the customer, somebody else will". I believe GM understands this now and is the key to survival. Doesn't it all boil down to attitude? If we don't get off our fat arsses soon we will be a third world country. I attended a seminar on PLM software and they praised Toyota for their management style. They listen to the customer and have a simple ethical management style. So much manufacturing is leaving this country, I read that Cadillac is opening a plant in China? I am sure for survival and global growth.

"Don't curse the darkness, light a candle"

John

[BodybyFisher]

This whole thread is off of Cadillac, I had asked to have it moved to the 19th hole a few chapters ago. But...it is timely and relates to Cadillac/GM and the US's survival.. You framed this issue very well... Education, skilled labor and taking care of the customer (a GM weakness).....

You are quite observant, I liked that you noticed, "It seems like the newer members are challenging the older loyalists and "this is a Pro-Cadillac discussion group".

The group ebbs and flows and is often challenged by new members who don't understand the boards slant. The board has gotten stronger lately and tighter as a unit and I for one am happy it has.

Beginning March 12 my participation here will decrease sharply as I start a new job in Manhattan as a Real Estate Analyst after having worked out of my home for 10 years (which I hated). One of my monitors always had Caddyinfo on it. I must say that I have learned a heck of a lot here and made many friends. I hope to sell my Deville and buy an STS in the spring and will continue to visit and post photos and videos of my major repair jobs. Thanks to all for your support and friendship..

[adallak]

This whole thread is off of Cadillac, I had asked to have it moved to the 19th hole a few chapters ago. But...it is timely and relates to Cadillac/GM and the US's survival.. You framed this issue very well... Education, skilled labor and taking care of the customer (a GM weakness).....

You are quite observant, I liked that you noticed, "It seems like the newer members are challenging the older loyalists and "this is a Pro-Cadillac discussion group".

The group ebbs and flows and is often challenged by new members who don't understand the boards slant. The board has gotten stronger lately and tighter as a unit and I for one am happy it has.

Beginning March 12 my participation here will decrease sharply as I start a new job in Manhattan as a Real Estate Analyst after having worked out of my home for 10 years (which I hated). One of my monitors always had Caddyinfo on it. I must say that I have learned a heck of a lot here and made many friends. I hope to sell my Deville and buy an STS in the spring and will continue to visit and post photos and videos of my major repair jobs. Thanks to all for your support and friendship..

Hey Mike, good luck with new job! Now you really need a nice daily ride. A STS would be great. Hope you will not have many issues to address and take pictures and videos. Please stay in-touch.

[kensala313]

i see i am out numbered here. i understand this is a pro cadillac site, and i am pro cadillac, thats why i began reading threads and began to gather info in order to post here.

the american dream is over. in todays and the futures modern work world, it is every man for himself. only the strong will scrape by, and the weak will work low wage jobs for large corporations (wal-mart, home depot etc.) who attract only the young, the old, and people desperate for medical benifits. large corporations have also stopped growing, and no longer can afford to offer competative salaries and worthwhile promotions. Nobody knows what my generation will do, or how we will feed our families. but as you can tell, if i have to piss some people off to survive i will. there is too much competetion out there today for a man to sit back and wait for something to come his way. the modern man must go out and make it happen himself if he wants to have a fighting chance. its a scary world out there, and if you dont want to get popped in the nose, youve gotta keep your dukes up.