can we blame them???

[steve6]

I am a GM fan myself, I have never owned anything else.....

BUT I think they are very weak in the mid size and small car department. Specially from about 98-2005'ish. In terms of reliability, all manufactuers have had issues, but what peevs me is trying to compare things like gas milege...and options on small cars. I relize some dont give a crap about that, but I commute 160-170 km's a day, and I have to have a car good on gas. GM does not offer me a car that will do that. They dont offer a diesel car(which makes me sad), the chevy aveo wont even get me 40 mpg highway (as the nissan versa, honda fit and toyota yaris will). I know people will come back and say 'well its rated for 35, the yaris is only rated at 40..' well do the math at 50000+ km's a year, and its city rating is lower than the competitors as well. You cant compare the entry level midsize, the corolla and civic's just blow the chevy cavalier/cobalt outta the water in that market. Even most of the civic's are rated 40+ mpg highway, the cavaliers are low 30's(which I can get in my v8 caddy on long trips if i control my speed!).

I do like some of the other mid size sedans, such as the g5,g6 and grand prix, but when you get into that market there is just so many options. The luxury market is even worse, infiniti, lexus, bmw, mercedes....lots of options. People think they still need a BMW or lexus to look 'cool'. I think I see more BMW's than I do ford focus's on the roads here in toronto!

sadly, I have to say my next eco car will probably be an acura EX (I hope I dont get one with a bad transmission :/) or a diesel VW golf/jetta -- which are junk as well, but im sure you'll be able to pick up a late 90's for pennies soon enough. Currently its a suzuki built pontiac firefly, 3 cylinder 5 speed, which on the worst days still gets me 38-40 mpg(we've had -20c temps the last few weeks, its hard on the milege) , in the summer with the A/C it still got me that!

I went to the GM dealer and was looking at the new line, malibu, aveo etc, and the sales guy asked me what I was looking for, and I said something great on gas and a simple easy to mantain car. He pointed me at the aveo, which I had already researchd. I pointed at my car and said 'This car is 12 years old, closing into 200,000 km's. With technology today, can't you offer me something BETTER on fuel than that' ... blank stare was all I got.

just my opinion, I know I have not considered a GM small/midsize car in years.. and probably wont for a while.

[WarrenJ]

Some people worry almost to the point of hysteria, and wrongly I think, against "sending U.S. dollars overseas."

Overseas dollars are nothing more than decorative paper until their holder does one thing with them: return them to the U.S. and spend them in the U.S!

Here's a real quick read from a noted (albeit libertarian) economist:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/WalterE...its_good_or_bad .

Regards,

Warren

[BodybyFisher]

Warren, I am much more concerned with US jobs and the US manufacturing industry. I think the horse is out of the barn however, its too late and the world is getting richer on our backs and we are getting poorer...

Take a look at the types of jobs that are getting shipped out. In my industry (real estate appraisal) there is lease analysis program called ARGUS, I have taught it at a major university..Its the industry standard and required knowledge to get into the real estate industry, I have used it since 1994 and the the prior industry standard since 1983. Large Appraisal Companies are now shipping their Argus analysis to India to be performed....along with confidential lease and operating expense information on our real estate... whats next

I dont think we need to run down the types of jobs that are leaving we have done that before. How are our children going to survive.

[Spurlee]

Kdaddy

P.S. God help us all next year when China dumps thier vehicles on our shores in 08.

What is going to happen then? I heard a lot about the "Chery" and some other cars coming to the US but haven't heard much recently...

[WarrenJ]

Warren, I am much more concerned with US jobs and the US manufacturing industry. I think the horse is out of the barn however, its too late and the world is getting richer on our backs and we are getting poorer...

Take a look at the types of jobs that are getting shipped out. In my industry (real estate appraisal) there is lease analysis program called ARGUS, I have taught it at a major university.. Companies are now shipping their Argus analysis to India to be performed....along with confidential lease and operating expense information on our real estate... whats next

Well, the old horse may be out of the barn, but look at all the foals that remain behind.

Wealth of both individuals and the Commonweal have increased dramatically in the past generation.

I *am* concerned about manufacturing jobs, particularly in the aerospace and automotive industries. These industries are crucial in time of war. I wouldn't want to have to depend, for example, on France for planes, tanks, missles etc. if we found ourselves in a serious conflict (France would likely be overrun before the first bullet shipped).

FWIW, there are large numbers of articles out there describing many U.S. firms returning from India to home grown CS. They simply couldn't withstand the backlash.

Making lemonade,

Warren

[JasonA]

A good example of off-shore manufacturing hurting local economies:

http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?S=6098878

That's my wife's hometown in southwest Virginia. Pulaski Furniture has been a mainstay in town ever since it was conceived. There was also a textiles mill in town, but that went out years ago. You can see the carcass of a town that was once thriving. There's a roller skating rink that is no longer there, but the building remains. Same, a bowling alley. The old theatre in town (one of the old types, with the silver screen) is closed, but they're trying to re-open it. This won't help. Pulaski Furniture had to be the largest employer in town, and now it's no more. Made in China.

[stsjoe]

Jason, Jefferson Mills closed?

[JasonA]

Jason, Jefferson Mills closed?

I think that's been closed for a long time now, yes? I guess you would know better, your family lives right down the street. If you say they're still open, I yield to you on that.

[tjtjwdad]

Alrighty then...

I used to think that CONGRESS was suppose to LEVEL the playing field so that imports did not DUMP their cheaper products on the US market and KILL US products... Not the case anymore when you have BUSH (who I voted for) saying GM should make a better car on national TV...

Manufacturing won WW2... We are going to be in trouble one day...as a result of our limp wristed CONGRESS

Actually, you make a good point. If a foreign competitor (automobile or what ever) is subsidised by their government (and I've heard the Japanese automobile industy is) that is not fair play in my opinion. I don't beleive for a second the money paid for non-American cars stays here.

Another issue I see, especially with GM is the many "duplicate" cars they make. They are streamling but the die-hard enthuisist don't like it. For example; Firebird vs Camaro.

Dealerships, especially service can be a killer. Obvisouly this has a more effect on American cars I believe because there are more of them. For me, there is a night and day difference by the way I'm treated by the Cadillac dealer as compare to the Ford Dealer, though the service from Ford has improved tremendously over the years. But they still come across as a "take-it or leave-it' attitude. I don't get that with the Cadillac Dealer.

Marketing. American cars don't fare well (IMO) with marketing. Take Toyota for example. They've been having sludge issues for sometime now and for the most part it's been keep quiet. The review magazines out there seem biased against American cars. The other problem, most people beleive those review magazines can do no wrong and therefore they won't research things for themselves.

I couldn't help but chuckle at the Bayonne NJ vacation spot comment. I remember as a youngster just in the Navy we stopped in there. It was defiently culture shock for a lad who grew up in the woods in North Carolina.

Jim

[stsjoe]

Jason, Jefferson Mills closed?

I think that's been closed for a long time now, yes? I guess you would know better, your family lives right down the street. If you say they're still open, I yield to you on that.

No Chief, Grandparents passed away years ago haven't been there in a while, shame about the Furniture Co.

[PAUL T]

To Paul T,

You are only partly right. First of all it DOES matter that you purchase an American car because the dollars go back into AMERICA regardless of where THE PARTS are made. Only a portion of our dollars go to the foriegn companies that produce individual parts for our cars. If you buy a Toyota, Honda, and soon the Chery (China) all our dollars FLOW into those countries and THEY hang on to our currency. Right now the world is awash in US dollars because of this. Although having overseas parts produced is not the best in terms of keeping jobs it is the most efficient. As long as the end product though is completed in the U.S. the sales go back to the American company. I stand by the four factors I stated earlier in the post.

Kdaddy

P.S. God help us all next year when China dumps thier vehicles on our shores in 08.

Not all the money flows back to the foriegn countries, only the profits go back. Alot of the money goes back in the local economies through workers salaries and taxes, plant expansions, funding of education programs etc.. Also, when the big 3 close factories making the parts and move them to foriegn countries, it hurts american workers. Where does that money go? Toyota is doing no different than any of the big 3. Before too long, if we aren't careful, Ford, GM, and Chyrsler will just have assembly plants in the U.S. because all of our manufacturing is going elsewhere. I have seen the local stamping plants close because of outsourcing.

I have seen a local company that makes wiring harnesses send local workers to Mexico to train the very same workers who eventually took their job. Everyone knew what was happening. The company played dumb.

Big business is pushing for a world economy.

I wonder if foriegn countries feel the same way when the big 3 build plants and manufacture cars in their countries? Most people do not care who owns the company or what country they are from as long as they provide good jobs with good salaries.

[kensala313]

i think we need to set our biased american opinions to the side here and look at the facts.

Explorer should have never been built with the solid rear suspension, Ford has major problems considering they knew the car was unstable but developed it and sold it anyway. But we are not talking about Ford here are we? They have already been passed by Toyota haven't they? So what is the point of that... Nothing in your post impresses me, fuel rail? Oh that's a biggie, mine was replaced free in one hour. The problem was most likely caused the use of ethanol that it wasn't designed for, its not likely that the problem was intentional or that the material used in the original fuel rail wasnt extensively tested.

But after you make the statement below you imply that I have a biased American opinion?:

when toyota and japan get to the top, could they start a new trend or era in the auto industry? (hybrid, hydrogen engine, solar power etc.) it will be intersting to see what they come up with

You make that obviously biased statement as if GM is not developing alternative power powerplants! What does getting to the top have to do with starting a trend in the auto industry? And you say it will be interesting to see what they come up with! What "THEY come up with" sounds anti-American to me. Why won't it be interesting to see what GM and BMW come up with? I guess with your anti-American bias missed this article FOUR years ago!:

USA: April 10, 2003

DETROIT - General Motors Corp. (GM.N) and BMW AG (BMWG.DE) have agreed to work jointly on developing refueling devices for liquid hydrogen vehicles, which could replace gasoline or diesel-burning cars and trucks in the future, a GM official said

I guess you missed that or its possible there is media blackout in SF regarding positive things GM and US corporations do given SF's hate of the US.

I don't want this to appear to be a personal attack because its not, its facts, but the city you are located in is the most liberal in the country and its possible your bias comes from that. Some of the things that come out of SF are shocking including refusing a WW2 destroyer exhibit, Pelosi, barring ROTC, the 9th circus court and just last night I heard about this indoctrination anti-war anti-bush anti-corporation book being used in SF schools that to me IS treason:

2/16/07 -- School District Fight - An anti-war comic book in the classroom ignites a firestorm in San Francisco please watch this video:

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player06.htm...p;&&new

I have heard that SF is a beautiful city and always wanted to visit, but after the garbage I hear coming out of it, I'd visit Bayonne, NJ first. Try to get your news from a source outside of your city, you might be surprised to find out what's going on out here ..

no fish, if you look at the wording, i never said YOU have a biased opinion, im saying WE (as cadillac forum members) have a biased opinion about toyotas on this site. everybody seems to be toyota hateing, when there is no reason for it. i dont think you can deny that toyota makes a quality auto, and that they proabably will surpass GM as the number one selling vehicle in america, therfore setting the pace and trends for other auto makers to keep up to compete for sales. If a auto maker has a number one selling product, all other auto makers will have to create a good product in order to compete for sales. does that make sense?

The fact that i said "They" is not anti-american. i am american, "they" (the japanseese/toyota) are not american, therefore i would not include myself in that group, nor would "they" include themselves in our group (american). we are two different groups, and i was seperating the two, in no way is that biased. Yes, it will be intersting to see what GM and BMW can come up with, but if they are not the first to the market, and toyota is, or do not have the number one selling product, and toyota does, wouldnt GM/BMW/all other auto makers need to catch up to the number one??? WE are now off track of the original article from where this discussion was started.

Well. now you are bashing SF, a city you have never been to, nor met significant amount of people from, so how could you even have a worthwhile opinion about it??? i do not even live in SF, i live in the AREA of SF, in a small valley town about 1 hours drive from SF. i say SF area because not many have heard of San Ramon, Ca, just as im sure not many have heard of Bayonee, NJ. Yes, SF may be on the liberal side, i do not read the newspaper, nor watch the news, nor attend SF schools, nor follow politics, therefore i cannot have a biased SF anti-american opinion. i based my first opinion off the the article i read regarding toyota competeing for the number one sales spot in america, due to the weak japaneese yen.

You do not want to make the attack personal, but you do by saying that SF has garbage coming out of it, and that i have a biased liberal anti-american opinoion. my opinion was 1) toyota makes a quality vehicle, 2) thay probably will be the number one selling auto in america, and 3) other auto makers will need to compete with toyota if they want to be the number one seller. how can my opinion be wrong, it is an opionion!!!!!!!

[WarrenJ]

A good example of off-shore manufacturing hurting local economies:

http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?S=6098878

That's a sad story Jason, but while I feel their pain, it is the inevitable fate of any "one industry" community.

Here in N.Y., Long Islanders (the "Cradle of Aviation" folk) were devastated when virtually all of the defense contractors closed their doors some years back. Fortunately, the area's economy was diversified enough that a (painful) recovery came about.

Regards,

Warren

[JasonA]

That's a sad story Jason, but while I feel their pain, it is the inevitable fate of any "one industry" community.

No doubt about it. That's especially a shame when the fate is because of out-sourcing rather than a natural decline for demand. Natural ebbs and flows of the economy are one thing, but when the last lingering source of employment for a particular community is suddenly moved to China...that's a real shame.

[WarrenJ]

That's a sad story Jason, but while I feel their pain, it is the inevitable fate of any "one industry" community.

No doubt about it. That's especially a shame when the fate is because of out-sourcing rather than a natural decline for demand. Natural ebbs and flows of the economy are one thing, but when the last lingering source of employment for a particular community is suddenly moved to China...that's a real shame.

I'm glad (?) you noted it was "natural." Or did you?

"Out-sourcing," goes back to cave man days. It's quite "natural;" still sad to see, however.

Intelligent management, just the same, can prepare for that in larger communities. Mostly, it doesn't. More sad. Small communities are at far greater risk; they simply don't stand a chance in the long run.

If you live in a small "one industry" community I have two words for you: GET OUT!

Five more important words: DON'T BUY REAL ESTATE THERE!

Regards,

Warren

[stsjoe]

But if Toyota opened an assembly plant in Pulaski would that be a bad thing? GM's quality has improved but until they can reduce the cost per unit its going to be tuff, GM's US plants are union Toyotas arent you offer the people in Pulaski 18 an hour with no benefits they would be on it like a hobo on a ham sandwich. Very complicated situation and I don't see an easy answer.

Joe

[WarrenJ]

But if Toyota opened an assembly plant in Pulaski would that be a bad thing? GM's quality has improved but until they can reduce the cost per unit its going to be tuff, GM's US plants are union Toyotas arent you offer the people in Pulaski 18 an hour with no benefits they would be on it like a hobo on a ham sandwich. Very complicated situation and I don't see an easy answer.

Joe

That was a tough read.

It was probably just me though.

[stsjoe]

Sorry Warren, didn't mean for a tuff read, but it seems strange Toyota moves its assembly plants into the US and GM is moving its out. Toyota (and Benz) go into depresed areas and it works, is GM hamstrung?

[BodybyFisher]

i think we need to set our biased american opinions to the side here and look at the facts.

Explorer should have never been built with the solid rear suspension, Ford has major problems considering they knew the car was unstable but developed it and sold it anyway. But we are not talking about Ford here are we? They have already been passed by Toyota haven't they? So what is the point of that... Nothing in your post impresses me, fuel rail? Oh that's a biggie, mine was replaced free in one hour. The problem was most likely caused the use of ethanol that it wasn't designed for, its not likely that the problem was intentional or that the material used in the original fuel rail wasnt extensively tested.

But after you make the statement below you imply that I have a biased American opinion?:

when toyota and japan get to the top, could they start a new trend or era in the auto industry? (hybrid, hydrogen engine, solar power etc.) it will be intersting to see what they come up with

You make that obviously biased statement as if GM is not developing alternative power powerplants! What does getting to the top have to do with starting a trend in the auto industry? And you say it will be interesting to see what they come up with! What "THEY come up with" sounds anti-American to me. Why won't it be interesting to see what GM and BMW come up with? I guess with your anti-American bias missed this article FOUR years ago!:

USA: April 10, 2003

DETROIT - General Motors Corp. (GM.N) and BMW AG (BMWG.DE) have agreed to work jointly on developing refueling devices for liquid hydrogen vehicles, which could replace gasoline or diesel-burning cars and trucks in the future, a GM official said

I guess you missed that or its possible there is media blackout in SF regarding positive things GM and US corporations do given SF's hate of the US.

I don't want this to appear to be a personal attack because its not, its facts, but the city you are located in is the most liberal in the country and its possible your bias comes from that. Some of the things that come out of SF are shocking including refusing a WW2 destroyer exhibit, Pelosi, barring ROTC, the 9th circus court and just last night I heard about this indoctrination anti-war anti-bush anti-corporation book being used in SF schools that to me IS treason:

2/16/07 -- School District Fight - An anti-war comic book in the classroom ignites a firestorm in San Francisco please watch this video:

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player06.htm...p;&&new

I have heard that SF is a beautiful city and always wanted to visit, but after the garbage I hear coming out of it, I'd visit Bayonne, NJ first. Try to get your news from a source outside of your city, you might be surprised to find out what's going on out here ..

no fish, if you look at the wording, i never said YOU have a biased opinion, im saying WE (as cadillac forum members) have a biased opinion about toyotas on this site. everybody seems to be toyota hateing, when there is no reason for it. i dont think you can deny that toyota makes a quality auto, and that they proabably will surpass GM as the number one selling vehicle in america, therfore setting the pace and trends for other auto makers to keep up to compete for sales. If a auto maker has a number one selling product, all other auto makers will have to create a good product in order to compete for sales. does that make sense?

The fact that i said "They" is not anti-american. i am american, "they" (the japanseese/toyota) are not american, therefore i would not include myself in that group, nor would "they" include themselves in our group (american). we are two different groups, and i was seperating the two, in no way is that biased. Yes, it will be intersting to see what GM and BMW can come up with, but if they are not the first to the market, and toyota is, or do not have the number one selling product, and toyota does, wouldnt GM/BMW/all other auto makers need to catch up to the number one??? WE are now off track of the original article from where this discussion was started.

Well. now you are bashing SF, a city you have never been to, nor met significant amount of people from, so how could you even have a worthwhile opinion about it??? i do not even live in SF, i live in the AREA of SF, in a small valley town about 1 hours drive from SF. i say SF area because not many have heard of San Ramon, Ca, just as im sure not many have heard of Bayonee, NJ. Yes, SF may be on the liberal side, i do not read the newspaper, nor watch the news, nor attend SF schools, nor follow politics, therefore i cannot have a biased SF anti-american opinion. i based my first opinion off the the article i read regarding toyota competeing for the number one sales spot in america, due to the weak japaneese yen.

You do not want to make the attack personal, but you do by saying that SF has garbage coming out of it, and that i have a biased liberal anti-american opinoion. my opinion was 1) toyota makes a quality vehicle, 2) thay probably will be the number one selling auto in america, and 3) other auto makers will need to compete with toyota if they want to be the number one seller. how can my opinion be wrong, it is an opionion!!!!!!!

1) You are posting TOYOTA information and "can we blame them" Toyota is strong in a CADILLAC LOVERS site you know a Cadillac Enthusiasts site

2) You posted this TOYOTA information and "can we blame them" Toyota is strong in a section reserved for:

Cadillac Discussion: STS, CTS, SRX, DTS, XLR, Allante, Catera, Deville, Escalade, Eldorado, ETC, Fleetwood, Seville, V-Series and Other Models

It belongs in the 19th Hole, otherwise you can expect my "BIASED" statements and borderline personal attacks.... If you want to post this type of drivel post in the 19th Hole or a Toyota forum. I wouldn't even have responded to this drivel if it was in the 19th HOLE where it belongs..... Do me a favor try to post OT stuff where it belongs and also download IESPELL and run spell check, correct spelling would add to your credibility.

http://www.iespell.com/download.php

Bruce could you move this to the 19th HOLE, as this is reserved for actual Cadillac discussion.. Thanks

[WarrenJ]

Sorry Warren, didn't mean for a tuff read, but it seems strange Toyota moves its assembly plants into the US and GM is moving its out. Toyota (and Benz) go into depresed areas and it works, is GM hamstrung?

Hey Joe,

Sorry for the "tough read" attitude. My bad mood doesn't excuse either my manners or behavior.

Well, the "Benz" certainly went into a depressed area and now the fire sale begins.

Toyoto, OTOH, cannot realistically be accused of that. Quite the opposite in fact.

I wouldn't say GM is hamstrung, but they *do* suffer from the well discussed "legacy" payouts to retired employees and current difficult payouts to active employees.

Equally important, perhaps, is the Japanese government's well known policy of supporting its industries in a variety of fashions. Currently, for example, Japanese companies benefit from a weak Yen that most believe is "engineered" by their government.

The U.S. doesn't need to contend with companies like Toyoto as much as it needs to contend with the government of Japan. It's more complicated, of course, but . . . .

Regards,

Warren

[stsjoe]

Well, the actual Enola *smurf* is just up the road from me.......never mind bad post

Take care and have a good Weekend,

Joe

[WarrenJ]

Well, the actual Enola *smurf* is just up the road from me.......

OUCH!

[BodybyFisher]

I can't believe that was smurfed...interesting limitation of the language monitor.... Someday I suppose these types of programs will examine the context of usage..

Sorry Warren, didn't mean for a tuff read, but it seems strange Toyota moves its assembly plants into the US and GM is moving its out. Toyota (and Benz) go into depresed areas and it works, is GM hamstrung?

Hey Joe,

Sorry for the "tough read" attitude. My bad mood doesn't excuse either my manners or behavior.

Well, the "Benz" certainly went into a depressed area and now the fire sale begins.

Toyoto, OTOH, cannot realistically be accused of that. Quite the opposite in fact.

I wouldn't say GM is hamstrung, but they *do* suffer from the well discussed "legacy" payouts to retired employees and current difficult payouts to active employees.

Equally important, perhaps, is the Japanese government's well known policy of supporting its industries in a variety of fashions. Currently, for example, Japanese companies benefit from a weak Yen that most believe is "engineered" by their government.

The U.S. doesn't need to contend with companies like Toyoto as much as it needs to contend with the government of Japan. It's more complicated, of course, but . . . .

Regards,

Warren

Warren, thanks for adding some reality to this thread. Like I said early on, LEVEL PLAYING FIELD....

[PAUL T]

But if Toyota opened an assembly plant in Pulaski would that be a bad thing? GM's quality has improved but until they can reduce the cost per unit its going to be tuff, GM's US plants are union Toyotas arent you offer the people in Pulaski 18 an hour with no benefits they would be on it like a hobo on a ham sandwich. Very complicated situation and I don't see an easy answer.

Joe

Toyota in West Virginia offers a very nice benefit package, healthcare, retirement and all. They screen their employees very close. They expect to get what they pay for, a good days work for good pay. They do not put up with people who don't want to work as a team. It makes for a good working atmosphere. I know several people who work there and they love it. They do not necessarily drive Toyota's either.

[Catch Me]

After reading all of this I can not help but notice that most seem to agree.

Labor cost is one big reason for many of the US auto makers problems and no matter what buy American.

So.

A Toyota factory opening in a depressed area will have workers lined up for a wage that no union worker would even get out of bed for.

Smart move by Toyota. So why didn't one of the big 3 jump in there? Is there no depressed areas around Michigan? Ohio comes to mind.

It has been said the big 3 is moving out American jobs but nothing of how Toyota and other importers are moving American jobs in.

For every over paid under worked union worker in this country there must be at least 10 or more people that would do the same job for half the cost and be glad they had the job.

Toyota and others see this and is moving on it. So, this we should hold against them just because our icons can not compete.

Boycot Toyota and the others and the products they make?

Still pay for a POS American icon just because it is an American icon?

Yeah right.

What does that say to the American worker building the Toyota? They're not American workers because they're building Toyota's? They're product is still made in Japan? What a slap in the face.

So just where is most of the GM parts made? Mexico, Canada? These are the made in locations I find most often on my GM products. I can't recall the last made in the USA sticker on a GM.

Hello!

Coffee is done.

Toyota and others are bringing back the jobs the big 3 are sending away.

Toyota is just a little smarter about it. Stay away from the unions and Detroit and give the jobs where they are needed.

After the greedy union workers put the factorys in Detroit out of business maybe Toyota can open the old GM plant and make those new Toylet models I've heard about all these years.

Please do not misunderstand me.

I do believe in buy American, I really do but darn it I'm not going to unless the American auto manufacturers step up and make a product worth buying at a reasonable price.

Business is business and buying a car or truck is business. Who does business on emotion. If GM wants my business they have to earn it. Just being from Detroit is just not enough anymore.

There are many other cars MADE IN AMERICA some are Toyota Subaru Nissan. The name may not be American but as far as I am concerned the car is just as much an American car as one of those Mexanda cars out of Detroit is.

Shipping parts is easy and cheap.

So just because a bunch of parts from Mexico and Canada get together in Detroit that makes the car more American made than one made of parts from Japan ending up at a plant in Carolina?

After all Benz has Chrysler. Does that make the Chrysler a German car that is just put together in the US? If the Chrysler parts were shipped to Germany and built at a factory there would it still be made in America?

I fail to see the reasoning behind this bashing of so called import cars made in USA . Americans have jobs they would not have. Money is being made and spent. A product that will last and is cheap to operate is made at a reasonable price.

What's the problem?