johnnyjaws Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Parked a deville about a month ago, pulled motor and did a hg on the 4.6 put it back together motor cranks but wont start. Has no fuel pressure checked fuses and are ok i here the pump running in the back what else should i check?or what should i do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 You have zero fuel pressure (checked with a gauge)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyjaws Posted May 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 no when i put a screwdriver into the out going port it drips out .? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDTS Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 you hear it run for a couple seconds then quit? you hear it running while cranking the engine? what fuel pressure are you getting? Most fuel pumps need a good signal from an oil pressure sensor to work. Ive changed a fuel pump and wired it backwards so it was running except backwards and somehow trickled gas out. Since you didnt touch that i assume its a sensor problem or clogged line. * 1966 Deville Convertible * 2007 Escalade ESV Black on Black * 1996 Fleetwood Brougham Black on Black V4P -Gone* 1983 Coupe Deville Street/Show Lowrider -Gone* 1970 Calais 4dr Hardtop GONE* 2000 Deville DTS - Silver with Black Leather and SE grille GONE* 1999 Seville STS - Pearl Red GONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 If you are sure there is gas in the tank, there are a couple of thing that can cause this. As mentioned, engine oil pressure is sometimes needed to activate the fuel pump solenoid. (I'm not sure if this is true for your car.)It is probably not the problem if you can hear the fuel pump running. Make sure it is the fuel pump and not the suspension's air pump that you hear running. One thing that happened to me when I changed the engine in my 94 SLS was that a wasp had plugged a line while building a nest. There was no external visual indication of the nest. When I figured where the blockage was, it took about 100 PSI of air to blow the nest from the line. If you left the lines open, you could possibly have a similar condition. Good Luck, Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDTS Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 it will still prime with the key on for a few seconds, but when you start cranking it will try to find the oil pressure signal on whether to pump or not. You need pressure readings and more info here. * 1966 Deville Convertible * 2007 Escalade ESV Black on Black * 1996 Fleetwood Brougham Black on Black V4P -Gone* 1983 Coupe Deville Street/Show Lowrider -Gone* 1970 Calais 4dr Hardtop GONE* 2000 Deville DTS - Silver with Black Leather and SE grille GONE* 1999 Seville STS - Pearl Red GONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 When you installed the motor, did you forget to plug in the injector harness? Large, round, grey plug near the throttle body area. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyjaws Posted May 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 For the 1st answer no never heard it run at all. 2nd its a good chance what you say theres lots of bees around here, putting the motor in there were bees all around the motor compartment. 3rd yes the plug is in but ill double check it and let you know what happens i need to fix this on my own cannot afford to bring it to a dealership . THANKS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Have you looked at the fuel filter? It is in the fuel line under the driver's seat Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between the sound of the leveling compressor and the fuel pump. The both come on when you turn on the key and then stop. Another problem could be a fuel leak. The fuel pump turns on for about 5 seconds when the key is turned on to prime the fuel injection for starting, but it doesn't turn on again until the oil light goes out. A good battery and starter will spin the engine enough to turn out the oil light, particularly in a cold engine, so if that's happening then I would suspect a bad fuel pump relay or fuel pump. If you don't have a fuel pressure gauge, you should borrow or rent one. Without numbers, everybody is guessing here. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike5514 Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 First determine if its fuel or spark. Spray gumout in the intake start engine if it runs its not ignition. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 I do not believe that the oil pressure fuel pump switch was used starting in 96 If the fuel pump is running and it stops it sounds like it is working properly. It could be defective, but as Jim notes check the filter. I personally would put a fuel pressure gage on it to see what you ARE in fact getting, that schrader valve could be clogged. Maybe you have a stuck open injector dropping pressure or have a bad pump. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyjaws Posted May 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Ill try and change out the filter tomorrow. And blow out the fuel line with air, and get back to you didnt have time today 2 work on it. thanks all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 I agree with BBF. I don't think the Northstar fuel pump is tied to the fuel pressure switch like some of the older GM engines where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 You really need to get a fuel pressure gage on the fuel rail and measure the fuel pressure. If the pressure is within spec, use a noid light to see if the injectors are getting a signal while cranking. Those two steps will narrow down the problem. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Salvaged motor? I bet the injectors are rusted...shot...frozen..locked up. Common junkyard motor problem. Yard tech hack saws the fuel lines to get the engine out as fast as possible. The open fuel line then allows moisture to get into the fuel line / injectors and destroy them. The exposed injectors are destroyed very fast...maybe couple of weeks.. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyjaws Posted May 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Motor was running perfictly 1 month ago except for hgs when i push in on the release valve it would normely squrit out at you but nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyjaws Posted May 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Checked for spark which is good. checked compression good. cranked over car and sprayed starting fluid car ran no fuel still checked for codes and these came up pcm p0231 - fuel pump feedback circuit low voltage. what can i do to fix this? - pzm b2502 -auto trans shift lock control shorted to ground - pcm1564 cruise control inhibit output circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyjaws Posted May 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Could anyone comment on this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 you had motor out of car? disconnected wire harness i assume. sounds like a harness issue. maybe recheck all harness connections under hood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 P0231 Fuel Pump Feedback Circuit Low Voltage The P0231 code is the key to your no-fuel situation. This particular code can be HISTORY or CURRENT Because all codes go to HISTORY when the key is turned off. YOu should see a message on your DTC, The B2502 is from a wiring problem or PRNDL switch adjustment (always shows Park) or mechanical hookup problem (ORN/BLK wire shorted to ground) and the P1564 is from a problem with the cruise control wiring, possibly another short. I have seen threads on P0231 here; you might do a search on the code and see what they turned up. I never had this problem and am giving you what I can from the FSM and my general experience, but others who have had this code and repaired the issue(s) probably didn't respond because their inputs are already on the board. P0231 is addressed in the 1997 FSM on pages 6-419 through 6-422. The schematic of the fuel circuit that begins the section shows that the PCM monitors the voltage on the fuel pump. The code is thrown when the PCM puts power to the relay coil but the output of the relay to the fuel pump is below 2 Volts. There is a fuse just for the fuel pump on the engine compartment fuse/relay center, labeled FUEL PUMP (20 Amp). The first thing you should do is to check this fuse. The second thing you should check is the fuel pump relay in the same engine compartment fuse/relay center as the fuel pump fuse. There are three groupings of relays in the engine compartment relay center: six together, two above-and-below in a block with 12 fuse sockets (ten are used) above a fuse block with 20 sockets (18 are used) and a couple hooked directly to the wiring harness next to the large Maxifuse blocks. The fuel pump relay is the lower of the above-and-below pair next to 12 fuse sockets and is the lower one. It is next to the two fuses labeled CRUISE (10 Amp) and FUEL PUMP (20 Amp). If the A/C worked you can try out the relay by switching it with the A/C Compressor Relay which is just above it as the only other relay in that grouping of two relays One last thing - the fuel pump is turned on by the PCM when the 4X crank speed signal is present from starting or running, not by the oil light. If the engine is turning over, the fuel pump is turned on by the PCM, unless the crank sensors aren't working. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyjaws Posted May 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Thanks for the info i can do a lot of things on cars but, wireing is not one of them. I just had the car flat bedded over to the dealer ship . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyjaws Posted May 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Dealership just called. car is fixed it was the ignition 1 relay . 1 hour labor 100.00 and 49.00 for the relay all codes are gone . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Congratulations on getting past this issue. Let us know how the car runs and everything works out for you as you work out the bugs on the engine job. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Glad it's fixed but $49.00 for a relay???? OUCH! I guess they don't earn the name "stealership" for nothing... Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Rock Auto lists the relay for $7. My car is old and has never had a relay problem; perhaps I should get a couple to have on-hand. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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