justgreat Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 OK, had the car out this morning. Started fine and everything seemed fine. Temperature rose normally but went all the way up to 223F which I guess then turns on the fan. Temperature came back down to 190F and then hovered between 196F and 203F. Why would the temperature go all the way up to 223F and then come back down? Do I sense that something is "sticking" in the morning or is this normal? I don't recall it ever doing this before? hmmm...interesting. the temp going up to 223 is completely normal, under certain conditions, and that's the cause for some concern. with the ambient temperatures we are experiencing at this time, it is unusual, but not completely out of the question, to see temps that high. 180 to 230 is the range that i see on a regualr basis on my 4.5...generally around 223 the temp starts to drop back to around 190-200. but this is more around summertime ambient temps, not in the spring. one good thing you're doing is keeping an eye on the temp...i think you will find that after a period of watching the temp setting, you will have a greater understanding of the range the engine goes thru. it is very possible to see 223-230 at this time of year, stuck in bumper to bumper traffic...no air flow and lots of heat build-up. i just did a trip to new haven and the ambient temp was mid 70's and she never went higher than 190 on the highway...as soon as i hit the local roads, she climbed to 210 or more. this is the normal operating range for the system. as far as 9 mpg...i only get 11-12 on my 4.5 around town: tons of stop lights, and idling and lots of heavy right foot application. 9 mpg does seem to be rather low unless it's totally inner city type driving, like in the city. jackg 90seville 100k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 You are not starting an arguement, but 9.1 MPH? Even with the biggest engine, and you probably had a V6... unless you were in bumper to bumper traffic the entire time, something is wrong, the NS is not a gas sucker. My 74 ELDORADO with a 500 cu in engine did better than 9.1, and it weighed much more, something like 5,800 pounds. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Marika, Sounds like a possibly bad thermostat to me (?) Maybe your new thermostat is defective. Has the coolant concentration been checked, is it 50/50? Are you still smelling anti-freeze? Did they ever pressure test your cooling system for leaks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Epriced, if you look up further in this thread Marika had it fixed at her local Caddy dealer. What she was seeing this morning was her stat opening. She should be ok at this point. The replaced a coolant temp sensor, the T, and a cap that was not holding pressure, for about $450.. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Epriced, if you look up further in this thread Marika had it fixed at her local Caddy dealer. What she was seeing this morning was her stat opening. She should be ok at this point. The replaced a coolant temp sensor, the T, and a cap that was not holding pressure, for about $450.. Is it normal for the stat to initially open that high? Just curious, how much do coolant temp sensors cost? I read that she was still smelling anti-freeze? Hopefully just her past spilled coolant was burning off then, atleast I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Marika, Sounds like a possibly bad thermostat to me (?) Maybe your new thermostat is defective. Has the coolant concentration been checked, is it 50/50? Are you still smelling anti-freeze? Did they ever pressure test your cooling system for leaks? At the dealership they pressure tested the system which is how they discovered the bad radiator cap and the cracked/leaking "T" connector at the heater core. The thermostat was changed by a different mechanic but I would think that if it were bad the dealership would have changed it again. I still smell antifreeze but at this point I'm going to guess that it's just old "burnoff" that's still laying around on the engine after all, they pressure tested the system and all they found were 2 leaks as mentioned in the first sentence. I looked in the purge tank last night and the dealership had filled the tank up pretty good. Was nice clean stuff too!! If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Ok, we used that compression leak test system. It's the blue fluid that's supposed to turn yellow if there's a leak. After about 5 minutes, it turned a bit of green, but never yellow. Mechanic tells me I need a whole engine for $5,500. I'm getting really disgusted with this situation. I also noticed there is a steady stream of fine bubbles rising up in the radiator near where the cap sits. There's no steam coming from the exhaust and there's a strong smell of antifreeze under the hood. Can I go with you when you tell this guy he was just slightly off on his diagnosis??? We can all be grateful he is not an ER Dr. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Initially in the morning I recall my 4.9 opening at about 215....that was an OEM stat, who knows what the original mechanic (who said she needed an engine) installed in Marika's car, that could be the reason for the higher opening point... after opening she drops to normal levels. The smell probably is related to burn off.. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 That's good! Hopefully the coolant smell will go away soon then, so you can finally put this problem behind you. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Sounds like everything is fixed and back to normal. I would not be concerned at all about the temperature swings - what you are seeing is the fan threshold in the ECM. I sure hope you plan to stop by the first place that told you you needed a new engine and let him know the real cause...I think he owes you some money back for all the unnecessary parts he threw at the problem... Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 OK, all was fine until this morning, it overheated again. I'm at my wits end over this. No codes were set this time. It seems as if something is sticking, I'm guessing. After the dealership made the repair, I noticed that the temps were still rising up to 223F then suddenly and RAPIDLY falling. I thought that was odd. Usually, what the car USED to do when it was normal, was that it would rise to 212F, then the fan would come on and the temps would go back down to 203F where the fan would turn off. What the heck is this car doing? Could it be a bad head gasket? Or just something sticking? If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 It sounds like your stat is sticking. What you are experiencing at startup has NOTHING to do with the fans with the temp going to 223 that as I said previously is the stat opening. NOTE however that it is OPENING late. My experience with my 4.9 was that in the morning the stat would open at about 216, yours opens at 223... could be sticking and your first mechanic either 1) didnt change it hoping to replace the engine as he suggested or 2) put in an aftermarket stat that was defective, or 3) from overheating AFTER the stat was installed, the new stat is now bad. Typically when a car overheats badly it can ruin the wax pellet in the stat and the stat needs replacing. I don't believe that your fans are requested until 226 or 228. Change the STAT. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 Read about Thermostats here and how overheating can damage them http://www.babcox.com/editorial/cm/cm50220.htm "As a thermostat ages, some of the wax inside the element may leak out. Corrosion may also cause the valve to stick or jam in the open or shut position. The wax element can also be damaged by overheating caused by other conditions." Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 I agrree with BBF. Sounds definitely like a thermostat. A good thermostat should work like a clock. I would remove it myself to see whether it was replaced by the mechanic. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 I agree. It sounds alot like a thermostat. I'd replace it before condeming the head gaskets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justgreat Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 how high does the temp read when it overheats? and how much coolant is added after the overheat? jackg 90 seville 101k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Olsson Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 Hi Marika. Looks like you´ll need a vacation after this I agree with checking the thermostat. But are you sure it is not leaking anymore? If it isn´t perhaps air is caught in the system. If the system is anything like my 4.5 liter you´ll have to make sure no air is caught in the highest point of the cooling system, that would be the heater core. On my Eldo I slightly loosened a clamp on the highest point letting the remaining air out of the system. Make sure the engine is hot and that the thermostat has opened. Make sure you got plenty of rags since you don´t want any coolant out on painted surfaces. There was a t-connection (plastic) a the highest system point before, suspect it has to do with purging air manually.If you still have any heating problems like you mentioned before I should suspect trapped air. Mine cracked a few years ago, coolant and steam from under my hood made me think I blew a headgasket or something Just a little story here, perhaps remotely related at least. I was in the middle of nowhere, but I was lucky to meet this nice older man who offered me to borrow his car to get me to the nearest gas station. It´s incredible that a man I´ve never seen before did this! Wouldn´t try that myself thogh... I got to the station and found a piece of pipe that matched (no charge) and borrowed a screwdriver, and got it running again 10 minutes later and it´s been there since (4 years ago) thats why I loosened a clamp instead. I´m sure it isn´t serious at all, going through exactly the same problems with my wifes Jeep...it´s driving me nuts too..Strange car, one mechanical fan and one electrical fan, the electrical one only works with AC on or when temp sensor, located on outlet of radiator (would you believe that?!), senses hot water. Read about many Jeep owners installing a switch to get the fan on when they want to Have changed, reservoir, thermostat clamps etc and now it´s not leaking anymore and it seems to work just fine. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 They haven't gotten to the car yet at the dealership but the service advisor said, "it sure looks like a sticking thermostat but we don't want to say anything until we know for sure and we won't know anything until tomorrow". The whole place was full of Caddy limos and funeral cars, it looked like they had an entire funeral service of limos etc there for service so I can understand why the mechanic couldn't get to it today. Until tomorrow, then. (I'm so depressed over this car ) If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 They haven't gotten to the car yet at the dealership but the service advisor said, "it sure looks like a sticking thermostat but we don't want to say anything until we know for sure and we won't know anything until tomorrow". The whole place was full of Caddy limos and funeral cars, it looked like they had an entire funeral service of limos etc there for service so I can understand why the mechanic couldn't get to it today. Until tomorrow, then. (I'm so depressed over this car ) If it is really the stat, go and kill that mechanic! The jury will be for you. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Olsson Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 If it is really the stat, go and kill that mechanic! The jury will be for you. But please kill him slowly.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 If it is really the stat, go and kill that mechanic! The jury will be for you. But please kill him slowly.. Right, make him swallow the thermostat. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 If it is really the stat, go and kill that mechanic! The jury will be for you. But please kill him slowly.. Right, make him swallow the thermostat. No, no, no, insert the stat from the other end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 If it is really the stat, go and kill that mechanic! The jury will be for you. But please kill him slowly.. Right, make him swallow the thermostat. No, no, no, insert the stat from the other end. I would reserve the heater valve (the plstic T) for "the other end". The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 I think I would reserve 6 PELLETS for the bottom end Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 I think I would reserve 6 PELLETS for the bottom end WOW!! you guys are as angry over this as I am. I'll have to find out tomorrow what's the problem. Oh course, I'll keep everyone posted. I got a Chevy HHR as a loaner car. Cute little thing and sort of good on gas. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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