BodybyFisher Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 Still sounding good.... You have a tough one here however.... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 Still sounding good.... You have a tough one here however.... When they refer to a computer problem, are they pointing a finger at the ECM? Can anyone fill me in on this? Is it OK with you guys if I have a psychotic episode now with a total split from reality? I think I need one at this point. Oh how I wish I still had my '66 Chevelle Malibu. I really miss that car. Not a computer in sight... If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 OK, just spoke with the dealership. He said last night, the techician hooked up a computer to the car which monitors everything in the car in real time and took it out for a test drive. "Half way out of the dealership, the check engine light went on, the DIC said "engine hot, stop engine" and it started to making a dinging sound from the interior warning signals". The technician knew the car was NOT overheating, the engine was cold. They think it's either wiring, the ECM or the BCM, (whatever the heck that is). I'm holding this CTS hostage until they can fix my caddy. I love my caddy and want the old greyhound to feel better. I want to take her to the shore this summer and enjoy the sun and take pics. I'm starting to have that split from reality If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 Still sounding good.... Take that CTS out and WUP on it.... Make sure you tell them to TAKE THEIR TIME WITH IT... Try not to get the CTS vandalized... :lol: Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 Still sounding good.... Take that CTS out and WUP on it.... Make sure you tell them to TAKE THEIR TIME WITH IT... Try not to get the CTS vandalized... :lol: I did tell them to keep the car as long as they had to because I don't want to keep on having to have the car towed in there every few days. AAA frowns upon such practices. I think the CTS won't get vandalized because it says on the back bumper that it's a courtesy car from a dealership. Only brand new cars with no identifying markings seem to get clobbered where I live. I think I'll drive to the country this weekend and take some pics. Maybe the Iris Gardens in Montclair. Oh there I go again, having a split with reality... If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 Has anyone considered a faulty tempurature sensor or has that already been replaced or ruled out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 Has anyone considered a faulty tempurature sensor or has that already been replaced or ruled out? If you refer to the sensor that is tied into the thermostat, that's been replaced. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 the following information was sent to me by a very good friend who gave me permission to copy/paste the information here: Sorry if I missed it in that long string of posts but has the water pump ever been replaced? The OEM pumps had a welded impeller but some of the aftermarket pumps had the impeller pressed onto the shaft....they could fall off inside the pump or slip. If the water pump was changed earlier and the replacement was not an OEM pump then it could be the water pump. The impeller may be slipping on the shaft and not moving the coolant causing it to overheat. Other than that, it seems to sound like a thermostat sticking. It wasn't clear if the last dealer visit they replaced the stat or not when it was overheating on them. Even a new stat can be bad so it helps to put the stat in a pan on the stove and bring the water to a boil. Watch the stat and you can see it open just before the water boils to be sure it is working. Other than that...are they sure it has the correct radiator cap on it...? The 4.9 uses a completely different cap from the Northstars. The Northstar caps do not have a drop valve to allow coolant to be sucked back into the radiator when the engine cools. If someone put a Northstar cap on your 4.9 system it will cause it to loose coolant and not recover it and eventually overheat. Take the radiator cap off and look at it. In the center of the cap, on the end that goes into the radiator, there should be a small metal disc that seems a bit loose and dangly if it is the correct one. Another thing to ask them to look at is the lower radiator hose. That hose had a spring in it I think to prevent it from collapsing. The lower hose is under suction by the water pump inlet so if there is nothing inside the hose it can suck closed and collapse and stop the water flow causing an overheat. IF the hose was ever replaced by a none OEM hose then possibly a hose was installed that is collapsing on occasion causing the intermittant overheat. The other thing to make sure they check is the coolant concentration. It should be checked with a refractometer and be good to -40 to be sure it is 50/50. IF the coolant concentration is not 50/50 then it could cause premature boiling and then overheating due to the vapor created. Head gasket failures on the 4.9 were extremely rare so I doubt seriously if that is the problem. Hope they come up with something at that dealership. They do seem to be doing a reputable job from what you describe. Intermittant problems can be tough to find to say the least. and he added: After thinking a bit more about your car's overheating problem I wanted to add some more info. Understanding how your cooling system works might help to diagnose what happens in the future. Don't confuse the operation of the Northstar cooling system and complaints of overheating with that system with your problem. The 4.9 cooling system operates a bit differently. The bottle beside the radiator on your car is a COOLANT RECOVERY BOTTLE. It is not a pressurized surge tank like the Northstar has. With the Northstar the coolant level inside the surge tank is indicative of how much coolant is inside the radiator or cooling system....NOT SO with your 4.9. On your car the rad cap is on the radiator itself. It has a spring loaded paddle or seal that keeps the coolant inside the rad. When the coolant heats up and expands it tries to push past the spring loaded paddle and into the hose leading to the coolant recovery bottle. The spring loaded paddle will only vent after the system excedes 14 PSI so the cap controls pressure in the system and the bottle just traps what excess is pushed out and then allows that excess to be sucked back in when the system cools at contracts. When you get your car back the first thing to do is to check the coolant level in the radiator (only when the system is cold from an overnight soak) by removing the radiator cap. Obviously you do not want to remove the cap when it is hot.... The radiator should always be full up to the brim when the system is cold. The recovery bottle should be about half full when cold. Mark the bottle with crayon or measure the level when cold for reference. Each morning when you go to drive the car check the radiator level by removing the cap and measure the level in the bottle. This will tell us what is going on in the system and provide some clues as to what is going on. It just sounds to me like the system is loosing coolant somewhere until it slowly gets low and then overheats. The loss of heat in the cabin is indicative of low coolant. If the radiator cap is working correctly the radiator should show full each morning and the level in the bottle will slowly drop as the coolant is sucked in when cold to make up the difference. If the rad drops and the bottle doesn't then the cap is not working correctly and is either defective or the wrong cap (I'm guessing wrong cap maybe as people always get the Northstar cap which is the wrong one for the Northstar). If the bottle fills up more and more and the rad is low then that also indicates the cap is not working correctly. IF there is a leak in the sytsem the rad will either be low in the morning or full but the bottle will slowly drop. In any case, we need some history day to day on what the rad level is doing and what the coolant recover y bottle is doing prior to an overheat issue. If the rad is full each morning and the bottle stays at the same level then there is not likely a leak and if it overheats then there is much more chance of the water pump or stat being the problem. Is your system full of fresh coolant and dosed with the sealant tablets as prescribed?? If there is an internal leak at the intake gaskets (much more likely failure than head gaskets but not likely in any case) the sealant pellets should stop the problem. This is why intermittant problems are hard to diagnose on the spot as you have to observe the trends of the coolant levels and such before and after an event to get an idea of what is going on. If the system gets low it will overheat so that alone may be the problem.....or.....the overheat may be blowing coolant on the ground which would lead to a false sense of the system leaking where a water pump might be causing the issue. They have replaced the obvious hoses and tee that would cause a leak on an older 4.9 and the heater core seems to be OK if you don't see any leaks there.....but.....since you are smelling coolant a lot it certainly could be a heater core seeping coolant allowing the system to get low with time. You wouldn't see that as some seepage will just evaporate and will drip down the evaporator drain to the ground under the car. So...another possibility is the heater core leaking. That would definitely give you a repeat smell of coolant in the cabin and cause steady coolant loss over time that would lead to an occasional overheat that is hard to pinpoint. XYZ (real initials removed to protect my friend's identity) You really need to watch the coolant levels in the rad and the bottle every day when cold in the morning , though, to get some more data to go by as those trends will tell you more than anything. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Marika, Sounds like a possibly bad thermostat to me (?) Maybe your new thermostat is defective. Has the coolant concentration been checked, is it 50/50? Are you still smelling anti-freeze? Did they ever pressure test your cooling system for leaks? I can only imagine how frustrated you are with this! I've been away the last week and was shocked to read you're still having problems. Maybe I was right after all? Sure sounds like a defective/intermttently sticking thermostat to me. I didn't notice that the new dealership ever replaced the t-stat again, if indeed it was replaced at the last place. It's such an easy and inexpensive thing to do. That would explain why the engine got hot so quick w/ the service tech driving it. I would have them make sure the coolant is 50/50 as well. But this may not explain the coolant smell. Were you still smelling coolant when you took it to the dealer last? Maybe your heater core is leaking as well? Either that, or you were only smelling the coolant when it overheated, while the coolant was coming out of your bottle. Good luck with this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Marika, The XYZ (one cannot confuse his intelligent style with someone else's) mentioned the new waterpump as a likely culprit. We overlooked that. It is most likely an aftermarket unit. You can easily remove the sound insulator under the glove box. It will allow you to smell the coolant sooner and even see some if the heater core really leaks. Mine did after flush and I had to replace it. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justgreat Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 OK, just spoke with the dealership. He said last night, the techician hooked up a computer to the car which monitors everything in the car in real time and took it out for a test drive. "Half way out of the dealership, the check engine light went on, the DIC said "engine hot, stop engine" and it started to making a dinging sound from the interior warning signals". The technician knew the car was NOT overheating, the engine was cold. They think it's either wiring, the ECM or the BCM, (whatever the heck that is). I'm holding this CTS hostage until they can fix my caddy. I love my caddy and want the old greyhound to feel better. I want to take her to the shore this summer and enjoy the sun and take pics. I'm starting to have that split from reality the computer glitch points outs how VERY important it is to accurately pinpoint what exactly is happening...just because you get an indicator light or a particular reading doesn't mean it's valid. the first thing in trouble shooting is make sure the testing gear (the gauges or light indicators) are working properly. i point this out because earlier in the thread i asked about the actual temp of the coolant and whether the system actually overflowed or not. all this is critical to figuring out what is wrong, if anything. as your xyz friend noted, keeping an eye on the level of the coolant in the overflow bottle is very important, whether you're having problems or not: it's part of the monthly routine of the vehicle (well, it is for me). one thing i really like about the dic on my 90 is the coolant readout is realtime in degrees; i can watch it without having to geuss by looking at an analog gauge without numbers. i don't know what the 92 has, but if ithe coolant temp is available through the dic, you might want to utilize it once your problems are sorted out. jackg 90seville 101k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterset Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 I have been following this the last few days. I feel for Marika. I recommend to purchase insurance on the rental car for comprehensive. I think any car is fair game for vandalism from what you described. I thought about the water pump not operating correctly/slipping also. This explains why the car looses heat in the cabin. My concern was that the mechanic continued driving the car when it said to shut it off. This mechanic was thinking the car was getting cooled, when it was not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Maybe it is the pump, but I'd sure throw another thermostat in there (cheaper) before doing the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeal1892 Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 What about a pressure test ? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Pressure testing the system, the dealership says it's fine and holding the pressure. They tested for hydrocarbons in the radiator and there were none so they are confident that the head gasket is fine on the 4.9 engine. The dealership put in a new thermostat. Tomorrow (Monday) I'll call them and mention the water pump to them and they can pull it and examine the pump to see if the impeller is slipping or defective. They should also look at the idle tension pulley since that was new as well and might be defective causing the belt to slip. I think the smell of coolant in the passenger cabin is the result of the coolant being forced out of the top of the recovery tank for the radiator system. When I opened the hood of the car after the DIC sent the message "engine hot, idle engine", I found antifreeze coming out of the top of the recovery tank, running all over the street and it was splashed far and wide under the hood of the car all over the engine probably from bouncing off the belt and other spinning parts and being splashed everywhere. YUK! I need to also tell the dealership to examine the intake manifold carefully and test for leaks. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Marika, The hood has a lining (insulation). It could be soaked with coolant when the latter boiled over the surge tank. It may smell when it gets hot. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Well, I'm just going to let the dealership keep the car as long as they need to and it's not because I have this absolutely lovely CTS to drive around in, Mike !! I want them to trace ALL the problems and fix them. I've already called AAA Towing twice, they generally start to frown upon multiple calls so I'm hoping to avoid having to call them a third time. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 OK, I got her back this morning finally from the dealership. She's feeling like a new car again. Here's what they did: Replaced all the harness wires for the coolant temp sensors and whatever else is attached to those wires. Complete tune up. replace broken front engine mount. I had no idea it was broken. replace starter. It was on it's last leg. replace Cansol Cam in the steering wheel and one horn. I had no horn for over 1 year so it was time to get that fixed as well. Charged Air conditioner. Anyone care to take a guess as to what the total bill was including 6% sales tax? If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 Hmmm, CTS rental for 7 days, $100 a day, $700?.... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 Anyone care to take a guess as to what the total bill was including 6% sales tax? Sounds like $1,750 to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 Anyone care to take a guess as to what the total bill was including 6% sales tax? Sounds like $1,750 to me. Higher. I was not charged for the courtesy car, by the way. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 Higher than $1,750, OUCH.... If it overheats now, I will hear you on Long Island! Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 Higher than $1,750, OUCH.... If it overheats now, I will hear you on Long Island! A very interesting number actually, $2,233.45 OUCH is right. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 That is incredible but considering all of the work you got done, I guess expected. At least its better than the new engine cost the first mechanic wanted to charge. Imagine him replacing the engine and STILL having the overheating problem because the wiring harness was bad? That would have been terrible. Well keep us up to date. I am glad its running better.. That was NOT an easy problem to fix. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 That is incredible but considering all of the work you got done, I guess expected. At least its better than the new engine cost the first mechanic wanted to charge. Imagine him replacing the engine and STILL having the overheating problem because the wiring harness was bad? That would have been terrible. Well keep us up to date. I am glad its running better.. That was NOT an easy problem to fix. I thought the same thing. Imagine having a new engine put it and the overheating started again. He was ripping me off for sure but no more. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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