elitensupreme Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Hello everyone, I am looking for a nice car that will be a daily driver and run around vehicle. I have my project cars and my weekend car so this will not be for that purpose. I have always love the Caddy Seville STS's from 1998 - 2003. I found a 99 STS for sale about two hours north of me that is very reasonable. They are asking 4K but I bet I could get it for close to 3K. I consider that an exceptionally low price. The car looks like it is in immaculate condition. The wear marks in the leather appear to be almost non existent, the body looks beautiful, the engine looks clean although used. The only blemish I can detect from the photo's is the dash looks incredibly worn. Any ideas as to why that may be? My main worry is the 170K miles she has on her. What should I look for when purchasing such a high mileage Northstar? Any insight or knowledge is more then appreciated as I am somewhat anxious about this. Your words will not fall on deaf ears. Below is a link with all 24 photo's and a short video of the engine running. I could not hear any strange sounds of course.... http://s378.photobucket.com/albums/oo223/lljkr6969/?action=view¤t=DSC02035.jpg&newest=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Welcome to the forum! Read up this thread and you will know what to look at before buying any Northstar-equipped Cadillac. I think that car is overpriced even if it is in great shape cosmetically and mechanically. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 This is an 11-year-old used car and as such you should look at everything very carefully. The miles are less important than the maintenance; the Northstar doesn't wear that much with miles. First, get a CarFAX on the car and see if there is anything positive or negative that makes a difference for you. For example, if the engine or transmission has been replaced, the date and mileage at that point will be on the CarFAX; who provided the engine can be helpful to you. Or, if the car was used as a taxicab for a couple of years, you can expect the struts and other suspension parts to be less than pristine. The photos didn't show a lot of excess wear on the dashboard that I could see (looking at numbers 8, 9, 11 and 20). Perhaps you could explain what looks worn to you in the photos and I would understand better. I do know that some people like to take their car to a carwash every week and the constant rubdown of the interior will cause things like opaqueness in plastic covers for the speedometer and radio displays and loss of chrome covering for plastic bezels. But I don't see that. The main noises that I heard in the video seemed to come from the serpentine belt area, which is normal. If the photos are the only thing you have for the car, you need to see it and drive it before you buy it. I would also have a mechanic look it over, including checking the OBD II codes, the brakes, checking the struts and suspension ball joints and bushings, the rack-and-pinion steering, tie rod ends, and stabilizer links and bushings, etc. As a final and very important note, have the coolant checked for combustion by-products to eliminate any possibility that you are buying a car with head leakage. Another important thing to look for is excessive oil leakage, particularly from the case half seam on the same hormonal plane as the center of the crankshaft, but also from the engine and transmission oil pans. The STS is a car with quite amazing performance for a car of its size and appearance. Somewhere where performance runs from 0-70 mph are safe and legal, with the car fully warmed up, try a full-trottle acceleration from a standing start to the speed limit with the transmission in Drive. The engine should run well up to the red-line RPM, the shift should be accomplished without slippage (the engine not pulling down to the RPM for the new gear quickly and smoothly), and the car should pull very firmly after shifting into second gear. You will not shift out of second gear until about 80 mph, so I don't recommend accelerating to the 2-3 shift unless you are in a place where that is legal and safe, but again the shift should be as I described for the 1-2 shift, and the car should again pull very firmly after the shift into 3rd gear. The temperature gauge should not move during this process; watch it for about a minute to be sure that it doesn't "spike" after you finish the performance test. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Be very careful and follow the recommendations above, See if you can get the maintenance history to see if the engine has had a head gasket problem or recent head gasket work but you NEED to know the history of this car Extract the DTC codes out of the system, see my signiture for directions. Post any codes here and we will diagnose them for you. DO NOT let the owner extract them for you long distance. Test the coolant as recommended above DO not jump at this car, procede cautiously Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93SixtySpecial Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 When I was looking at my 99 Deville with 231k miles, I was mainly concerned about the head gasket. I purchased the car because the former owner had every maintenance record on the car. I bought a tester from NAPA that tests if there is combustion gases in the coolant. You fill a tube like object with this solution and set it on the radiator opening (in my case, the coolant resivoir). Then you use a little squeeze ball to extract the gases from the coolant system through the solution and if it changes to yellow, you have a bad head gasket. If it stays blue, you're good to go. I purchased it for around $30 if I remember right. Well worth the money though. I'd check every fluid to see how it was maintained, even if you have service records. Make sure there is still a redish tint to the transmission fluid and that it doesn't smell burnt. Smell the exhaust to see if there are any strange smells coming from it, such as a sweet or rotten egg smell. -Dusty- 2006 Cadillac DTS Glacier Gold Tri-Coat with 175,000 miles 1993 Cadillac Sixty Special Gold Mist with 185,000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDTS Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 What they are all getting at is the head gaskets were a big problem that year. Its not the gasket itself but bolts pulling out or something. Anyway, for $3000 if you are going to buy a cadillac then I would recommend having a grand or 2 stored away for unexpected repairs since its your daily driver. The alternator going out or a little solenoid in the transmission or a blower motor, just little things can run huge repair bills. The shocks alone can run a grand a pair. But if you love those cars then go for it. No sense in getting a malibu or impala that may be cheaper to repair but you dont enjoy the car. Id also say shop around well, late 90s caddys are dirt cheap no matter the mileage. You can even find some under 100k miles for 3-4k. My buddy has a 99 deville with 80k miles he would love to get 4k for. Do what these guys say and it will save you Im sure, but you cant predict everything, thats why i say have some extra money set aside. * 1966 Deville Convertible * 2007 Escalade ESV Black on Black * 1996 Fleetwood Brougham Black on Black V4P -Gone* 1983 Coupe Deville Street/Show Lowrider -Gone* 1970 Calais 4dr Hardtop GONE* 2000 Deville DTS - Silver with Black Leather and SE grille GONE* 1999 Seville STS - Pearl Red GONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 One other thing, if you do a search here you will find out that during the 99 production year there was a manufacturing defect recall where as the head bolt holes were drilled improperly. Do a search, if its in that range of VIN numbers check with GM and see if the recall has been done, if not check the status of having the engine replaced. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93SixtySpecial Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the thread pattern change on the head bolts in 2000 and again in 2003? -Dusty- 2006 Cadillac DTS Glacier Gold Tri-Coat with 175,000 miles 1993 Cadillac Sixty Special Gold Mist with 185,000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the thread pattern change on the head bolts in 2000 and again in 2003? The bolt pitch and size I believe changed in 2000 and 2004. I know there were changes in 2000 and 2004, just don't know what they were, we need to detail those changes if they have not been already Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elitensupreme Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Wow, Thanks for all the input! The dash wear i was seeing is in photo 20. Looks like sun fade maybe? I am trying to keep my options open but its tough to find anything that is not nearby. Even this is 2 hours away. The good news is that my brother is a Technician for GMC and working on getting his world class training complete. He has offered to go with me and look anything I buy over and usually does all the work on my auto's as long as I help him and provide food and alcohol after words He is the one who suggested I go to an enthusiast forum and see what everyone has to say. That is pretty interesting about the head bolts. It seems like I always hear people gripe about the Heads and the Rear Main Seal in Northstar's. I am looking forward to doing that performance test And I am making a list of everything here so feel free to help me legenthen it. Once again thanks a million everyone. I look forward to posting pictures and info when I do make a purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Before you decide to do the head gaskets stop by here for more information. Its not your old school head gasket job Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 One more thing, a head gasket job on a Northstar can be a VERY expensive job at the dealer and render the car without value as it will cost more to do the repair job than the car is worth, so you want to factor that into your offer. Simply saying you can get it for $3000 is not good enough if the head gasket job will cost you $3000 or $3500 or more if you install a rebuilt engine from say Jasper. Great cars, but you need to be prepared to do some work yourself and know how to do it. This is not the kind of car you own if you don't know squat about mechanics, electronics and diagnosis. We at caddyinfo can help there is a lot of info here and experienced people. If you buy it become a supporting member, membership is worth the meager membership fee, we'll save you tons of money here in no time. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Photo 20 shows the sky gleaming on the wood dash decor, not wear. The wood is genuine Zebrano, with a very thick protective coat of clear polyurethane or other protective coating, and that is very shiny. This kind of thing is why you should see the car in person before you get serious. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93SixtySpecial Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Photo 20 shows the sky gleaming on the wood dash decor, not wear. The wood is genuine Zebrano, with a very thick protective coat of clear polyurethane or other protective coating, and that is very shiny. This kind of thing is why you should see the car in person before you get serious. Do the 2000-2003 Sevilles have the Zebrano wood? -Dusty- 2006 Cadillac DTS Glacier Gold Tri-Coat with 175,000 miles 1993 Cadillac Sixty Special Gold Mist with 185,000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDTS Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 if you like devilles theres a 2000 base deville on the omaha craigslist with 50k miles 1 owner for $3,000. Theres deals like that around if you look. Thats alot better than 180k miles! I had a 99 STS for a year then fell in love with the devilles. Never liked the back ends of the sevilles, the front is cool though. The back just doesnt say caddy. A friend of mine was behind me after I bought it and knew I just bought a caddy and didnt even realize he was behind a caddy * 1966 Deville Convertible * 2007 Escalade ESV Black on Black * 1996 Fleetwood Brougham Black on Black V4P -Gone* 1983 Coupe Deville Street/Show Lowrider -Gone* 1970 Calais 4dr Hardtop GONE* 2000 Deville DTS - Silver with Black Leather and SE grille GONE* 1999 Seville STS - Pearl Red GONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93SixtySpecial Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 ...50k miles 1 owner for $3,000... Wow...You would never find anything like that with 10 hours of this place. Cadillacs are expensive around here. I have to travel 5 hours just to get one that is at book. They are usually at book or higher around here, if you can find them. There are a lot around here, people just hold on to them. A Deville for that price around here would have to have over 150k and look pretty rough. Then again, business is booming up here and we have a surplass of jobs, so everyone has money. -Dusty- 2006 Cadillac DTS Glacier Gold Tri-Coat with 175,000 miles 1993 Cadillac Sixty Special Gold Mist with 185,000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDTS Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 ...50k miles 1 owner for $3,000... Wow...You would never find anything like that with 10 hours of this place. Cadillacs are expensive around here. I have to travel 5 hours just to get one that is at book. They are usually at book or higher around here, if you can find them. There are a lot around here, people just hold on to them. A Deville for that price around here would have to have over 150k and look pretty rough. Then again, business is booming up here and we have a surplass of jobs, so everyone has money. lol, I thought all caddys sold for way below book. Book value I thought was made up that just slowly depreciated, instead the actual value is way less because cadillacs have a bad reputation for repairs and not many people want to spend over 15 grand for a 5 year old car when they can get a new one. Theres a small market for caddys around here anyway. I had a tough time sellin the ones I sold. * 1966 Deville Convertible * 2007 Escalade ESV Black on Black * 1996 Fleetwood Brougham Black on Black V4P -Gone* 1983 Coupe Deville Street/Show Lowrider -Gone* 1970 Calais 4dr Hardtop GONE* 2000 Deville DTS - Silver with Black Leather and SE grille GONE* 1999 Seville STS - Pearl Red GONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 ...50k miles 1 owner for $3,000... Wow...You would never find anything like that with 10 hours of this place. Cadillacs are expensive around here. I have to travel 5 hours just to get one that is at book. They are usually at book or higher around here, if you can find them. There are a lot around here, people just hold on to them. A Deville for that price around here would have to have over 150k and look pretty rough. Then again, business is booming up here and we have a surplass of jobs, so everyone has money. I contacted the seller, the car sounds good, they are trying to sell it fast due to financial problems, but it sounds way too good to be true, I am wary of ebay scams. This was the response I received, it makes me wary for some reason, what do you think? Kelley Blue Book has this car value as $5800 (excellent) and $5400 (good). Thank you so much for contacting me regarding my 2000 Cadillac DeVille. The car has 51,000 miles, one owner, it's in perfect condition without any mechanical problems, with no damages or hidden defects, no need for additional repairs, clear title without any accidents, liens or loans. All power equipment are in working order. I have all the car's manual, 2 spare of keys, all the documents and papers. The last price for the car is 2,980.00$. I was fired from my job because the financial crises that affected almost everyone including the company I worked at. I'm in a hurry to find a buyer because I'm in debts with my bank, so now you can see the reason why I'm selling my car at 2,980.00$. I want to make this transaction through eBay's Vehicle Purchase Program. I want eBay because they are the biggest Company and we can close this deal fast and safe for both of us. If you are interested to buy email me your full name and shipping address (street,city,state,zip code,country) so I can open the case with eBay. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 i found a 2002 DTS that needs headgaskets done. guy is asking 2300. above average miles though. there are many 97-99 cars for sale that need work but the 2000-2003 cars are very hard to find. internet makes it much easier to find them. i am sure the small shops and garages see them all the time. but they rarely come on the market as-is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 ...50k miles 1 owner for $3,000... Wow...You would never find anything like that with 10 hours of this place. Cadillacs are expensive around here. I have to travel 5 hours just to get one that is at book. They are usually at book or higher around here, if you can find them. There are a lot around here, people just hold on to them. A Deville for that price around here would have to have over 150k and look pretty rough. Then again, business is booming up here and we have a surplass of jobs, so everyone has money. I contacted the seller, the car sounds good, they are trying to sell it fast due to financial problems, but it sounds way too good to be true, I am wary of ebay scams. This was the response I received, it makes me wary for some reason, what do you think? Kelley Blue Book has this car value as $5800 (excellent) and $5400 (good). Thank you so much for contacting me regarding my 2000 Cadillac DeVille. The car has 51,000 miles, one owner, it's in perfect condition without any mechanical problems, with no damages or hidden defects, no need for additional repairs, clear title without any accidents, liens or loans. All power equipment are in working order. I have all the car's manual, 2 spare of keys, all the documents and papers. The last price for the car is 2,980.00$. I was fired from my job because the financial crises that affected almost everyone including the company I worked at. I'm in a hurry to find a buyer because I'm in debts with my bank, so now you can see the reason why I'm selling my car at 2,980.00$. I want to make this transaction through eBay's Vehicle Purchase Program. I want eBay because they are the biggest Company and we can close this deal fast and safe for both of us. If you are interested to buy email me your full name and shipping address (street,city,state,zip code,country) so I can open the case with eBay. This sure sounds like a scam to me... he wants to ship the car - hmmmm a sucker pays for the car and then it never arrives. It would be fun to contact him and state that you will be in the area and want to inspect the car personally - if it checks out, you will buy it. Then watch the excuses start to pour out... Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 Exactly, imagine buying a car sight unseen? Too good to be true, half the market price, low mileage, perfect condition got me, and I didnt even see the shipping.....haha.... OK so she sells the car for half the price its worth then spends $800 to ship it to me in New York...right Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 I would never by any car with the intent to use it as a daily driver for myself or a family member. A dealer or collector might be willing to do something like that for an inventory item, but there is just too much risk in buying a personal car without seeing it. The grammar of the email back to BBF tells me that English is not the seller's first language. The reasons for selling the car so cheap don't ring true to me. The price and mileage are such that, if the guy was telling the truth, he could wholesale the car locally and get more than he is asking. Big, big red flags. A Liston on eBay Motors will give the location of the car by city and State. If you are really serious about this car, go and see it. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 I noticed the grammar also, and I wonder if it is being used to dumb down the seller to put you off guard and think you are 'getting over on them' I can't imagine that anyone would fall for this. We knowing the potential for HGs are immediately alert for that reason, can't imagine not driving, examining and testing this car. Maybe they are trying to hook an unsuspecting rube. Ebay should NOT allow this type of transaction I have seen this on ebay before, craigslist is also a scary place for lots of reasons. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 I have bought my Fleetwood off eBay. Sure I took it for test drive. When it comes to eBay the most important thing is the feedback. NEVER ever consider anything less than 100%. Make sure the seller has sold at least 10 cars per year, etc. Serious eBay dealer will never sell a lemon and jeopardize his reputation and feedback. I saw a beautiful (in the pictures) Fleetwood sold and then relisted six times! Watch several sellers for months to see the behavior pattern. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 Send him an email telling him you want to come look at it... and I would be willing to make a small wager... all correspondence will cease... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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