New car purchase of 2001 DTS - northstar blues- lincoln zephyr

[bearnupe1]

I have owned my 98 concours for 4 years and have logged 70K on the car and it now has 130K in miles. I want so bad to buy a 2001 dts but after the problems with the rear main seal leak that I have for the second time I am just frustrated and don't know if I want a car with a motor that springs a leak like this again. Have they fixed the Northstar leak yet or is it a problem still on these cars. GM and Caddy should be ashamed to have this problem so well documented and not fixed. I fixed it once at 61K ($2100)at a dealer now at 130K its leaking again. I may just drive like this for the next year while I look at the linclon Zephry as my new car. I love the caddy but the northstar has got to go unless someone assures me that it won't leak again like this. any advice????????????

[Bruce Nunnally]

I would have said the rear main seal was not a problem after 94 or 95; we don't hear much about the half case seal or rear main seal lately.

The DTS and the Zephyr (new name: MKZ) are very different cars. If you don't need the space in the DTS you should look at a CTS; completely different powertrain. THe MKZ is based on the Ford Fusion. A competitive GM car would be a CTS 2.8L according to Lincoln. You should also look at the Buick Lacrosse CXS.

[GreenMachine]

if the job was done rigth I would imagine that leak shouldn't happen again. There a replacement gasket that is a differant than the original which when replaced, shouldn't spruce up again.

If you had it done a GM dealer and still have the invoice its most likely covered under the lifetime warranty for "parts" but labor will still cost a bundle since its over year.

[Cadillac Jim]

Even if you don't have the receipt, the repair will come up on the computer under the VIN. I would have it fixed again under the warranty to avoid the trade-in value hit of a car with a problem. That will give you a trouble-free car to trade, and worry-free operation under the full warranty for the year that you want to keep it.

I do agree that if you want a smaller car, you should look at the Caterra. If I were buying a new car today, I would look at the Caterra first. I love my 1997 ETC, but the closest thing they have to it now is the STS-V which is $70K and up.

[JasonA]

I would agree that the repeat problem MAY be because of poor service practices at the dealer...ie a botched fix. Rear main seal leaks aren't all that common on these engines.

A Lincoln Zephyr doesn't compare at all to your current DeVille or a newer DTS. The Zephyr is a Ford Fusion, replacement for the Taurus.

[BodybyFisher]

This is the first I have heard of the rear main seal 'problem'. Is it possible that you are speaking of the case half leak? At $2100 it certainly sounds like a case half repair.

How bad is it leaking? What kind of oil do you use? Try the high-mileage oils, it slowed my leaking. Try a different mechanic, the Cadillac dealer might be motivated to EXAGGERATE the problem to sell you a new car.

[PAUL T]

A rear main seal repair and case half leak require the same procedure, pull the engine, so I could see the same cost. I had a quote on the case half leak and they threw in a rear main seal replacement. Are you sure it is a rear main seal and not the oil pan bolts working loose? My oil pan bolts worked loose causing a leak. Be sure it is not something else before you commit.

[caddypete]

look at a Hyundai Azera,blows them all away. You laugh now, go test drive one.

"0 to 60 in 6.1 seconds and turning a quarter-mile in 14.8 seconds at 96 mph. Or you could think of the Azera as being as quick to 60 as a BMW 325i

At highway speeds the cabin is isolated and serene (we recorded a low 66 decibels at 70 mph). It’s more quiet inside at that speed than an Avalon or even the last Cadillac STS we tested."

That is a quote from a reveiw from one of the car magazines, it also stated more interior room than the s class Mercedes or 740 classBMW.I drove one today if it wasn't for the unimpressive looking exterior I would have bought one for 26,500.But it still looks better than the Camery,Buick and Zepher. Black leather interior, 5 yr 60000 mile bumper to bumper warranty,10yr 100000 power train warranty, 5 yr unlimited miles roadside assistance.More standard options than the CTS offers at $12,000 less

[JasonA]

The Azera certainly looks impressive on paper.

You may find support of a Korean automaker less than enthusiastic on this site, especially during times like these (and no, I'm not talking about N. Korea).

[caddypete]

Believe me, a Korean car wouldn't even cross my mind but after my ac compressor turned off (actually locked itself off)because of low refrigerant,and its impossible to recharge without the compressor running and to add insult upon injury my passenger window refuses to go down and I have a Eldo so I only have 2 windows,it is hot and muggy and I get pretty irratated sweating in a car that originally sold for $38,700.It is always threatening rain so the Harley is not an option.So while I debate do I go to the dealer and get it all fixed which I'm sure will run a couple hundred dollars,upon the thousand or so I have already spent on repairs for a car that hasn't hit 70,000 yet and I have put less than 12,000 miles on since buying or buy a new car. I start to compare to help in my decision on what to do.And dollar for dollar American cars are not adding up to well.Don't get me wrong and think I'm american bashing, I realize car magazines are biased against american cars it seems,but when you really start to compare yourself, dollar for dollar (your hard earned dollar)your eyes open.I love my Caddy but these little problems and costs every month or so are starting to take thier toll on my patience.

[JohnnyG]

Never heard of a rear main seal leak on a Northstar, is this car a rear wheel drive? Heard some of the early ones had a case half leak, usually more of nusance than a serious leak. I can assure you that I have owned a 1999 STS for about 5 years now, and now pushing 75,000 mi., never touched the engine for a repair of any kind, and NOT A SINGLE DROP of oil has EVER leaked from it.....not one!

[BodybyFisher]

after my ac compressor turned off (actually locked itself off)because of low refrigerant,and its impossible to recharge without the compressor running

The compressor shuts itself off to protect itself from a low refrigerant charge and sets a low refrigerant code. Never heard of one LOCKING itself off. If yours works the same as mine, all you need to do is, disconnect the battery and the compressor will re-engage so that you can recharge it... Does that NOT happen with yours? I know this is the case with mine, as my system shut itself down in May and I needed to disconnect the battery to erase the low refrigerant code to recharge it.

Try to keep in mind that all cars need repairs and all cars break down in one way or another even foreign cars. To think that they don't fail or break down is naive.

[Cadillac Jim]

... my ac compressor turned off (actually locked itself off)because of low refrigerant,and its impossible to recharge without the compressor running ...

...my passenger window refuses to go down...

Get thee to an air conditioning shop. They will be able to diagnose your problem in minutes. I would wager that the module turned off the A/C because the compressor is bad, not because of low refrigerant.

You can decide yourself whether to get the compressor at the A/C shop for less, possibly much less for a rebuild, and a 90-day to 12-month warranty, or pay top dollar at a dealer and get a lifetime warranty.

When the A/C is working, get to a body shop for the electric window problem. Except for opening up the door panel and changing pieces (and electric window work doesn't fall in that category), the dealership goes to a body shop for body work anyway. If they have one in-house, you can try going directly to the body shop, but I would look for an independent that has experience with Caddy electric windows – and most of them will.

Please consider that the dealer may not the place to sole consideration to maintain an old car. Dealerships exist to sell cars, and they maintain cars that they sell so that they can sell cars. If you're not a candidate for a sale, then they must make their money off of you from repair costs. The dealership Goodwrench labor costs are worth it for some things, but not for things that you can get fixed at a service station, Midas, Aamco, a glass shop, or a good mechanic. I have had dealership service people tell me, sotto voce, to go to a muffler shop for a catalytic converter, for example. Go to the dealer when the warranty or expertise is worth it to you. With this forum at your disposal, expertise issues may be a rare event.

[KHE]

Believe me, a Korean car wouldn't even cross my mind but after my ac compressor turned off (actually locked itself off)because of low refrigerant,and its impossible to recharge without the compressor running and to add insult upon injury my passenger window refuses to go down and I have a Eldo so I only have 2 windows,it is hot and muggy and I get pretty irratated sweating in a car that originally sold for $38,700.It is always threatening rain so the Harley is not an option.So while I debate do I go to the dealer and get it all fixed which I'm sure will run a couple hundred dollars,upon the thousand or so I have already spent on repairs for a car that hasn't hit 70,000 yet and I have put less than 12,000 miles on since buying or buy a new car. I start to compare to help in my decision on what to do.And dollar for dollar American cars are not adding up to well.Don't get me wrong and think I'm american bashing, I realize car magazines are biased against american cars it seems,but when you really start to compare yourself, dollar for dollar (your hard earned dollar)your eyes open.I love my Caddy but these little problems and costs every month or so are starting to take thier toll on my patience.

The ACM will turn the compressor off when there is a low refrigerant level to protect the compressor from destruction. This is not a fault, it is there by design to keep the compressor from locking up and shredding the accessory belt at the most inconvienent time or thworing debris into the system... Extract the codes from the onboard diagnostics and you'll probably discover a low refrigerant code. Visually inspect the compressor - if the case is all oily/greasy, the case seals are leaking. Replacement AC Delco compressors manufactured after January, 2001 have revised seals. If the clutch face is oily/greasy, the shaft seal is leaking. A competent A/C tech (who is not a compressor swapper) can change a shaft seal (part cost $25) in an hour.

Compare the repair costs you have incurred on the Eldorado on a per month basis compared to financing $26,500 on a monthly basis. You will quickly get over being irritated.

What does a 7 year old Hyundai with 70000 miles have compared with other cars? It may be in the shop every other week - in that case, I'd ask what good is their 100,000 mile warranty? One thing about Hyundai that really irritates me is how they are "dumping" their cars over here. The same vehicle in Korea costs several thousand dollars more than what it does in the US once all the exchange rates are taken into consideration.

[caddypete]

after my ac compressor turned off (actually locked itself off)because of low refrigerant,and its impossible to recharge without the compressor running

The compressor shuts itself off to protect itself from a low refrigerant charge and sets a low refrigerant code. Never heard of one LOCKING itself off. If yours works the same as mine, all you need to do is, disconnect the battery and the compressor will re-engage so that you can recharge it... Does that NOT happen with yours? I know this is the case with mine, as my system shut itself down in May and I needed to disconnect the battery to erase the low refrigerant code to recharge it.

Try to keep in mind that all cars need repairs and all cars break down in one way or another even foreign cars. To think that they don't fail or break down is naive.

I have earased the code, but it resets as soon as I start the car,The display says "low refrig ac comp off" I also unhooked the battery for a few minutes, had the recharge can hooked up started car and the display came up with same message before the ac even had a chance to turn on, now I will try to put power directly to the compressor so the computer has no control over the clutch, but that will not be easy because the plug is recessed and the two pins are rather small and thin,Does anyone know if I need to ground the pin that is ground? Or will the compressor itself be a good enough ground? Because the way I figured it out with a test light was the top pin power and lower pin ground only because when I test the wire connectors going to the compressor the bottom one is grounded

[GreenMachine]

What does a 7 year old Hyundai with 70000 miles have compared with other cars? It may be in the shop every other week - in that case, I'd ask what good is their 100,000 mile warranty? One thing about Hyundai that really irritates me is how they are "dumping" their cars over here. The same vehicle in Korea costs several thousand dollars more than what it does in the US once all the exchange rates are taken into consideration.

Considering those 100,000 mile warrants only cover "manufacturer defects" and not "wear and tear" the are kinda useless because if something goes wrong at 80,000 miles how can one argue manufacturer defect. (In a way I suppose you could wish the northstar had that kind of warranty for the purpose of head gaskets...but then one could also argue improperly maintained coolant system).

[Cadillac Jim]

The "low refrig ac comp off" message is the one you get when the reed valves break and the compressor runs but no compression happens. It happened to me. The "ac comp off" action saved my A/C system, the dealier diagnosed the problem in minutes, and a new compressor had me on my way in about the same time as an oil change with a lifetime guarantee on the compressor.

[JasonA]

You won't fare better in a Hyundai. A co-worker has a Hyundai Tiburon. It has more shakes and rattles in it, and it's only 2 years old. Funny, the 10 year warranty or whatever it is doesn't cover rattles. He says my Cadillac is 10 times tighter than his car, and the Caddy has about 6 years and 130,000 miles on his Tiburon...

He's had the clutch and throwout bearing replaced already. Two power window motors. The sunroof doesn't work. It's a pile of crap. They can afford to offer 10 year warranties as long as the parts cost them $.50 each. And apparently they do. He obviously says that it's the last Hyundai that he'll ever own.