JimD Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 .... I pulled codes. the only one that came us was TCS 1234 Current. Ignoring the T and the S would yield C1234 which = a problem with the LR wheel speed sensor and/or associated wiring. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINDAL Posted July 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 I will have to check the codes again. My son drove it to work today. I drove it around 120miles yesterday. Started on first try everytime. My son said it started first try for him last night. I think we fixed it. Cross your fingers. Thanks again. I forgot to add the traction control light is on as well as the ABS. My husband changed the brakes on his car too and his lights have been on ever since just like mine. I think we have something to hook up that Mr. Laird forgot to do. Anyway, he at least changed both brakes for us. So, I thought the code TCS was the traction control issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 The LR wheel speed sensor would explain the ABS and traction lights. It looks like sombody blew away the wheel speed sensor when they were doing the brakes. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 .... I forgot to add the traction control light is on as well as the ABS. My husband changed the brakes on his car too and his lights have been on ever since just like mine. I think we have something to hook up that Mr. Laird forgot to do. Anyway, he at least changed both brakes for us. So, I thought the code TCS was the traction control issue. It is possible a connector was dislodged and not noticed during the brake work. The standard format for OBDII codes eventually came to be a 5 character string; one letter followed by four numbers. The letter breakdown is B=Body, C=chassis, P=Powertrain, U=Network. The breakdown for OBDII codes was "supposed to be" finalized and standardized for '96 and later production vehicles. At least as far as Powertrain codes that would result in a Service Engine Soon message for an emmision related problem. A code of P0128 from a Cadillac Eldo would identify the same fault as a code P0128 from a Dodge Neon. Maybe TCS is a carry-over from OBDI and while all this powertrain code standardization was being hammered flat during '94 and '95 by the auto builder committees and SAE and being blessed by the EPA, some of the "other" vehicle systems got left at the side of the road temporarily. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINDAL Posted July 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 I pulled his codes again. Everything was history except the TCS C1234 Current. I think I forgot to put the C in the last post of the codes. I will tell my husband about the speed sensor thing. He said he connected everything back up. He said it was easy just plug everything back in. ?? Maybe he forgot something. He finally got the motor out of the back of his truck. He had to hoist it up in the garage to get it out by himself. We are getting ready to have loads of fun working on that motor. He will probably enjoy it. He wants me to order the time sert kit. But, I think we need to wait until he gets in there and finds out if we need the big serts or not. I have a feeling it has been worked on before. The pretty cover that has the 32 valve written on it is missing. Which could mean something else. Anyway, I think the time sert kit could be here in 3 days as soon as I know which one to order. I will have to order another gasket as well. We just ordered the front one, when he thought he was going to have to fix it in the vehicle. So, now since the engine is out he wants to fix it right (both heads). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Before you get to the point of ordering the Time-Sert parts, you might give some thought to the differences between the threaded portion of the head bolts as discussed in this thread http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=10327 I have no idea how much effort it would add to your project, but if I was to be faced with Time-Serting a '99 or older Northstar, I would seriously consider using the 2000 and later bolts AND Time-Sert kit. But only if the bolt holes has not been repaired previously. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Before you get to the point of ordering the Time-Sert parts, you might give some thought to the differences between the threaded portion of the head bolts as discussed in this thread http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=10327 I have no idea how much effort it would add to your project, but if I was to be faced with Time-Serting a '99 or older Northstar, I would seriously consider using the 2000 and later bolts AND Time-Sert kit. But only if the bolt holes has not been repaired previously. Use the recommended Timesert kit for the vehicle - the 2000+ engines have two different depths of head bolt holes and corresponding bolts. Considering how much work and money is involved, I would not try to re-engineer the repair. The Timeserted hole will be stronger than the plain aluminum threads when the engine left the factory. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINDAL Posted July 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 Service Engine Soon Light came on and has stayed on. Pulled the codees - PCM PO420 Cuirrent. I think it is Low Efficiency of Catatlyst Converter?? Any help is appreciated. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 Are you having any driveability complaints? See this thread: http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...60&hl=P0420 Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 I think it measures the efficiency of the catalytic converter by comparing the results from the O2 sensors ahead and behind the converter. So it may be an o2 sensor problem rather than a catalytic converter problem. However it would not be improbable that the converter is toast at this point either. Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINDAL Posted July 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 No, he hasn't complained about any other problems. Just the light coming on and he was going to check all the fluids again and then I pulled the codes. The service engine light was on when we bought it and we had them come out and hook up the diagnostic tool to it and they said it had a bad O2 sensor problem and not to worry about it. We didn't know what that meant at that time and the dealer told us not to worry about it.?? So, we didn't. We didn't know how to pull the codes ourselves at that time and now we do. I wish we had found this forum earlier, I think we would have taken this one back to the dealer. How much does a converter cost if we have to put one in? I am assuming we could do it ourselves? From reading the post about the converter, I believe my 95 needs one, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 A dealer said you had "a bad o2 sensor" and "not to worry about it"? The o2 sensor is a $50 part that is essential to proper engine operation. That seems a bizaarre input from the dealer, except if they meant that other problems were more important. A catalytic converter replacement in some cases does require some welding. In other cases it is flanged and bolted in front and back, and can simply be replaced. Be sure to check gmpartsdirect.com, and gmotors.com for Gm part prices on a cat converter, and ask the dealer to match those prices if you go to the dealer. Otherwise, a muffler shop can replace the cat. Also, the catalytic converter as part of the emission system, can have a longer warranty than other parts. So also ask the dealer if your converter would still be covered, just in case. Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINDAL Posted July 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 It was the dealer we bought it from that said that about the service engine light and then the 02 sensor showing on his diagnostic tool. We wanted it checked before we bought the car. He convinced us it was not a problem. We drove 150 miles to get the car and should have had it checked by our local mechanic when we got home and didn't. Live and learn. We did call the previous owner and she didn't give us much info on the car. Should have shot up another red flag. This dealership sends me stuff all the time wanting me to do business with them. Ha!ha! I should call him and let him have a piece of my mind. Do you call any Cadillac dealer on the converter? This car(Eldo 97) has about 94,000 miles on it. I just figure it isn't covered. Oh, and mine (STS 95)has 135,000 miles on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 The GM catalytic converter warranty is 8 yrs/80K miles apparently, so yours are out of warranty. Remember the error code could be the o2 sensors, or could be the catalytic converter. To check the converter, you would normally do a backpressure measurement ahead and behind the converter to see how clogged it is. Also, if you shake the converter and can hear the element inside rattling, that's a sign of needing replacement. As I recall, the northstar has four O2 sensors, one in each exhaust manifold coming off the engine, then one ahead of and one behind the catalytic converter. With an o2 socket wrench, these are not hard to change at home. However, on the Sevilles one of the o2 sensors is located so that you have to lower the frame rail to get the darn thing out (again, from memory), so search the archives on this topic before you start it. Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINDAL Posted August 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 I cleared the codes last night and drove it without the light coming back on. He was on empty-empty (fuel level very low light on) and I filled up the tank. I was wondering if it being that low on fuel had something to do with getting that PO420 code. He drove it after I got home without the light coming back on. Crossing my fingers that it doesn't come back on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 I would not expect low fuel to set a "Low Efficiency of Catatlyst Converter" DTC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINDAL Posted August 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 Silly code came up again PCM PO420 Cuirrent. I reset it again and it has stayed off for 3 days. But now the coolant level is low. And we saw a little white smoke coming out the back. It quit but I didn't see any coolant on the ground under the car. Now I have a bad feeling this motor is doing the same thing as the other one. What are the odds of us getting another one that has the same problem? Makes me wonder about the o2 sensor deal too. Could it be a warning of the water in the exhaust? No other codes on the car today. All clear except for the TCS 1234. The 30 day warranty goes out on Monday on this motor. Now we are trying to figure out what to do. I need to go back and read the posts on how to do the compression test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonie77 Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 Have a combustion byproduct test done first. Make sure the surge tank doesn't get topped off just before the test. A radiator shop does that test a lot so it's cheaper there. Do a cylinder pressure test...not a compression test. The pressure test is putting 100psi air into the cyls. It is more likely to catch HG's starting to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 Take it to a shop that can test your coolant for hydrocarbons to determine if you have a bad headgasket..ASAP as zonie noted... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINDAL Posted August 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Took it to the shop in Benton for the hydrocarbons test. Fluid stayed blue. It is not overheating. Gauge stayed right in the middle or a hair past the middle. It is hot here again today. My husband did put coolant in the car last night. What else do we test? I can smell anti freeze when I drive it, but I can't see it anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Check the heater pipes that run behind the engine by the firewall and check the radiator end tanks for cracking. Also check the water pump cover for leakage. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINDAL Posted August 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 We are not sure if they put the Seal Tabs in. He sent him home with 5 GM cooling system seal tabs to put in when he changes the coolant. The # on the tabs doesn't match what it says on the car to put in. Is there a certain kind to put in or are these good enough? The # on the package is 1#12378254 Gr.8.800 COOLING SYSTEM SEAL TABS. GM VEHICLE CARE on the package. Contains: Ginger, Almond Shell, Sodium Carbonate - CAS #497-19-8 1,6-Heptadiene-3.5-dione, 1,7-Bis(4-hydroxy-3-methoxyphenyl)-CAS#458-37-7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted August 8, 2006 Report Share Posted August 8, 2006 Sounds like those are the right tabs. Our old Guru always say 6 tabs, manual says 3, I used 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINDAL Posted August 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2006 Changed the coolant and now the water pump is leaking. Looks like new water pump will be put in today. I am searching for info on how to put in the water pump. The local auto shop says they have the tool to loan us to remove and install the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 8, 2006 Report Share Posted August 8, 2006 That was probably your coolant smell, if this was a used engine, the water pump seal probably dried out and leaked when you began using the engine.. Here is a thread that has some helpful information in it: http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...ic=8696&hl= Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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