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Cadillac Engine Replacement?


LINDAL

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They frequently sell for around $50 or less on ebay, but yes that sounds like how much a new one is. I was remembering them being $105, but in that neighborhood.

Bruce

2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing

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There is someone on Ebay selling home-made insert kits to repair the Northstar - stay away from that kit - you want to make sure it is a Time Sert brand from Time Fastener Corp. I bought all my parts from Brasingtons (gmotors.com) when I did my '97 - they arrived in three days and the headgasket/bolt kit was far cheaper than anything the local parts stores had.

Definitely pull the engine to do the repair - it will be much easier and it is faster. I was going to Timesert my engine while it was in the car and realized after I had it down to the block, that it would be easier to pull the engine and it was.

One thing the factory manual does not mention is that you do not have to disconnect the crank sensors, etc. along the front side of the engine. There is a large plug that allows the harness to be disconnected near the EBTCM and all the individual sensors remain plugged in.

When removing bolts, etc, I placed bolts grouped by subcomponents in ziplock bags and labeled them with detailed notes where they went - I highly recommend this as it will be impossible to remember where they all go. You won't lose any parts or have any left over that way.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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The local auto zone quoted a price of $219 for the gasket set. Helm service manual $135, Time Serts from Baumtools $386 with shipping. Any other tools needed?

My husband is only planning on doing the front head and leaving the engine in the car. Is that possible? Does it effect the other head? He says it is the front one and it will be easier to fix and get him going again.

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The head gasket kits are $56 per side from Brasingtons and they are genuine GM parts, not some Autozone substitute. As much work as this, I would not use anything but GM parts. From memory, the parts you will need are:

Headgasket kit with bolts. The small 6mm bolts in the chaincase area are reusable.

Head alignment dowels - you will need to remove the existing dowels to Timesert the holes

Water pump crossover gaskets

Permatex gasket remover spray

PLASTIC or WOOD gasket scraper.

Engine oil cooler o-rings - where the oil cooler lines attach to the radiator.

If a dealer has confirmed that ONLY the front gasket is leaking, it is possible to replace just that side with the engine in the car. You will need a way to keep the timing chains positioned to keep the engine in-time while you remove the head. This is CRITICAL as if you don't keep it in time, you will bend valves when the engine is reassembled. The factory shop manual describes how to do this in detail.

A concern I would have about only doing the front head is the integrity of the rear gasket/head bolts. The rear may soon fail after the front is repaired. Also, the water pump crossover is a royal PITA to remove with the engine in the car - you will need to remove the water pump crossover to remove the heads. The engine harness will be in the way - but is mush easier to unplug the herness from the EBTCM (ABS moduel) and the large connector that connects the engine sensors to the main engine harness. If both sides are repaired, the engine will last virtually forever - it will be stronger than when it left the engine assembly plant.

You will need a torque wrench and a torque angle meter for torquing the head bolts and a tool to lock the flywheel at the #1 top-dead-center position. A power steering puller puller is needed to remove the water pump pulley from the left (front) cam. Some metric threaded rod, nuts and washers to install the water pump pulley. You will need a variable speed 1/2" drill to machine the head bolt holes.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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I placed orders for the gasket, time sert kit, and service manual. We went with the GM parts for the head gasket from Brasington Cadillac in Florida. I ordered the Time sert from Baum tools (received name from Time Sert site). I ordered the service manual from Helm.

KHE or anyone who has done this. If you removed the engine to repair, how did you get the engine out if it has to be removed from the bottom of the car? We have a big tractor but no lift to put the car up on.

His friendly auto mechanic (60 miles away) will remove it for him for around $300 if we have to go that far.

I want to thank everyone for all the help so far. I am sure we will be asking more questions after we get started.

This site has truly been helpful.

THANKS

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Here's a couple of links to the write up I did after doing it. A lot of info. There is some duplication in the two threads.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/north...ket+repair+part

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadil...ket+repair+part

I would NOT recommend doing just one head. The rear gasket is probably failing also. We found that when we did the one in the threads above. I've done 3 and all 3 had both gaskets showing corrosion. The cam chain is also hard to deal with in the car. There is a tool made to keep the chain in place though. I have not used it, just know it's made.

It is easier to drop the cradle out the bottom than to pull just the engine. It is scarier but you'll find a lot of bolts are extremely difficult to reach in the car. It was designed to drop out the bottom.

Most of your questions will be answered if you read those threads.

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One of our members, Mark99STS dropped his cradle out from the bottom by lifting the body, here are some interesting photos from his job. I would probably do it this way, if I did it:

http://www.markonemtg.com/marks99sts/id6.html

I think I would assemble some sort of dolly that would have the ability to raise and lower 12 inches with bottle jacks and wheels

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

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Mark99STS used a similar method. He takes much better pictures too!

It shows that you don't need a lift. You'll need the engine hoist either way. With the cradle disconnected the front of the car is surprisingly light.

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I pulled just the engine from the top side when I did my '97 STS. If I had to do another one, I would remove the powertrain from the bottom. As zonie77 said, a lot of bolts were a PITA to access.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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  • 3 weeks later...

I just replaced my 97 engine with one from Accurate Engines. The say they figuared out the head bolt problem. I seen it on ebay. Their # is 616 531 2050. $3200. They remaned my engine. I used some bozos in town to do the work and having all kinds of problems with the computer and sensors.

Use a garage that knows what they are doing 1111

Accurate Engines. $3200. Rebuild yours. 3 year unlimited mile warrenty. 616-531-2050.

I just did this and used some bozo garage to do the labor and having major sensor and computer problems. Go to someone that has replaced this engine before in the recent past. Expect to wait 2 weeks for the rebuild. :)

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We have run out of time on this car. We found a used 96 Deville engine to put in this car. We still can keep his old engine and repair it. We are planning on doing that as we can. Then my son will have to decide if he wants it back in his car or to sell it.

Is there anything to look for and replace before we install this used engine? The mechanic in Benton is putting it in for us and has put northstar engines in before. He has worked on my 94 STS & 95 STS for other problems and is a good mechanic. Very reliable and honest.

I know we may have a problem with this used engine but it has a 30 day warranty and did run when the car was brought in to the salvage yard. But, like I said we have to get this car going we are short vehicles and patience.

Any help is appreciated.

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Have the new engine pressure-tested and checked before installation into the your Eldorado. In fact, better yet, once they get the DeVille engine out of the DeVille and on a stand, ready for your Eldorado, have them remove the heads and Timesert all the holes. This will pretty much guarantee a bulletproof engine. As Ranger said earlier, anyone who says it can't be done either doesn't know or is scared of the procedure.

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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We were told you couldn't test it. We picked up the engine ourselves and took it to the mechanic.

He sends his engines to someone else and the last one they did, they screwed up. So, the timesert head thing is out. We will probably do it on the one he takes out for us. That is the plan and I have ordered and received most of the parts already for that engine.

Just wondering about the rear engine seal. Do we need to worry about that?

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We were told you couldn't test it. We picked up the engine ourselves and took it to the mechanic.

He sends his engines to someone else and the last one they did, they screwed up. So, the timesert head thing is out. We will probably do it on the one he takes out for us. That is the plan and I have ordered and received most of the parts already for that engine.

Just wondering about the rear engine seal. Do we need to worry about that?

Now that you own the used engine, have your mechanic pressure test each cylinder to verify the integrity of the head gaskets before installing the engine. Your '97 Eldo is a 275HP model right? You need to make sure you are installing the same HP engine otherwise, the car will not perform correctly.

If the rear main seal is not leaking, don't worry about it.

The Timesert procedure is not brain surgery by any means....I do not know why so many shops screw it up... :blink:

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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The Timesert procedure is not brain surgery by any means....I do not know why so many shops screw it up... blink.gif

It's a fairly long process since each hole takes several steps and there are 20 holes. They're charging to do it so it's just lack of craftsmanship. They just get in a hurry trying to make the most money.

I think I'd do the rear main. But that's just an opinion. If there's no sign of a leak you should be safe leaving it alone.

The plastic cover for the AC should be changed while the engine is out.

As far as testing the used engine...early gasket failure may not show, even with a cyl pressure test, so you might as well put it in and cross your fingers.

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Thanks

I figure if it doesn't work they have the other engine out to work on and all we have lost is the labor charge. Hopefully, they can do the head gaskets on the one he is taking out and make his money back or put it back in his car. It will be up to him (he is paying for it all).

I found this motor at local salvage yard and they had a 96 Deville (engine with a Y) to sell for $950.00. He will only give a 30 day warranty but acted like he would go longer as long as we didn't wait 6 months to put it in. We will see. He wanted $150 for the core. My son thought the engine core would be worth more the $150. Does anyone know?

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Jasper wants $600 for a VIN 9 core.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Thanks

Another reason to keep the core and sell it like it is or fix it. I don't think it will work in my car (95 STS). Mine isn't in too bad of shape but you never know. I might be in the market for a car to fit his motor (97 Eldorado) in to. If fixing the head gaskets will make it last forever, that is another option putting it in another car that the owners have given up on.

Let me know if anyone sees a car this motor would work in for sale.

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Lindel, this engine is going in the 97 Eldorado? Its not an ETC is it? Just checking, ETC, STS and Concours are 300 HP engines, non ETC and non STS and Deville take 275 HP engines. Just checking

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Lindel, the Eldorado engine (if your Eldorado is also a VIN Y) won't work in the STS. In theory, you could put any engine into any car, but since the final drive ratio in the transaxle is specific to the engine (geared to the specific torque curves of each engine), in practice you'll get bad results. Plus, the PCM is calibrated for that specific model.

The 1997 engine MAY not drop right into a 1995 model vehicle anyway. Through 1995, manufacturers were required to use a computer system dubbed OBD-I. It's a term for a generic On Board Diagnostic standard (version 1, or I) that most automobile manufacturers use in their vehicles. Starting in 1996, all manufacturers were required to switch to OBD-II, or the 2nd version of the system. Much more capability, more standarized diagnostic procedures, etc. I understand some sensors/wiring may be different between an OBD-I Northstar and an OBD-II Northstar. Someone with some more experience there may be able to chime in here.

I can't see any roadblocks to putting a 1996 VIN Y engine into a 1997 VIN Y vehicle (like your Eldorado). Absolutely nothing changed on the engines between those years that I know of.

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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Yes, the engine from the salvage yard was out of a 96 Deville (Y engine) and we are having it put in my son's 97 Eldorado (not ETC). The mechanic is getting ready to put it in or start it this week. He hopes to have it started by Friday. We have been told it will work just fine in the 97. I hope.

My car is the 95 STS.

We will have the 97 Elodorado's engine to either fix, sell or put in a Deville for me. I am really thinking about finding a Deville to put his motor in for me. I bought my STS because I thought my son would want it after he totaled our 94 STS. His plan was to buy the 94 STS from me. So, I looked online until I found another STS 95 in our price range and bought it. I have driven it for almost 3 years now. I really like the Devilles better. So, this may be a good thing in the long run. I will get my Deville.

My son decided he wanted a Black Eldorado instead of buying mine, so I searched online until I found him one in his price range. He really wants this car fixed and plans on keeping it forever. He is 22 years old and loves that Eldorado.

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Are you getting rid of your 95 STS? I hate my Deville, maybe we can talk.... I want an STS... I have a list of replacements that would knock you over...that i have done in the last 24 months.

MY car is at the bottom of this page, PHOTO #1

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Nice car! Probably out of my price range.

I will have to get you a picture of mine and email you. You are a long way from me. I live in Southern Illinois. Long Island would be quite a distance to travel.

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Lets talk, I would drive out when the timing is right (cooler weather), and maybe we can make the switch. Send me some pictures of your STS. I would make an even up switch if your car is in good shape. How many miles? I just sent you my email address, Mike

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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The engines themselves were the same through the 94-99 model years (someone correct me if it's 93-99). The only mechanical difference between the 275 hp and 300 hp engines that I see in the 1997 factory manual, engine mechanical specifications on pages 6-11 through 6-13, is the intake cam. So, it seems that if you rebuild an engine, you could make it a VIN Y or VIN 9 engine by selection of the intake cam.

The thing you need to watch are the engine sensors -- the knock sensor, the temperature sensor, the oil pressure sensor, and whatever else there is. These must be what the module for that year is designed to work with. I have no way of knowning how much these varied over the model years. The safest thing to do is to use new sensors wherever you find them physically attached to the engine castings that are selected for the model year of the installation.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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