GM is building some outstanding cars

[BodybyFisher]

Last week, I went into my local Cadillac dealer. Sitting on the showroom floor was a Pontiac Solstice. WHAT a COOL and AGGRESSIVE car that is. I want one! If you have not seen one in person, check it out. It looks cool from every direction, its new but it retains strong cues to the old Pontiac's. Pontiac used to push the WIDE-TRACK ride and look and yes the Solstice is wide. This car should sell.

The other day I pulled into a gas station across from an 06 DTS. WOW, that car is cool looking. I started talking to the owner who was ecstatic about it.. He raved about its power, tight ride, features. He loves the automatic headlight dimmer that utilized a laser detector, I missed that feature. He traded in an 03 Deville. I said I like that Cartier analog clock and he agreed. It aggravates me that the freaking press ripped that clock. It is elegant looking and belongs in a Cadillac. Does EVERYTHING have to be DIGITAL now? Maybe we should tear down big Ben and install a digital clock? That clock reminds me of the beautiful Cadillac clocks from the 50's, 60's and 70's. Beautiful car.

TODAY.... I stop at Dunkin Donuts for coffee..... and lo and behold is a GTO with dual exhausts idling in the parking lot. The sound called me over to investigate. It had dealer plates on it. Anyway it had a Corvette engine in it I was told.. For some reason I thought it was a Northstar 4.0. Anyway this GTO is also incredible and the women that was driving it loved the car. She actually worked for GM and we had a nice chat.

Now they have a Buick Lucerne with a NORTHSTAR, for $28,000....

My point is that I really think that GM is building some very compelling and exciting cars and I believe their strong push began around 1991. What do you all think of the cars that GM is building?

[adallak]

When it comes to clocks and watches I am definitely for analog ones. I love mechanical watches from 70s and 80s. I have recently bought a swiss automatic (new old stock), cleaned, oiled, put together, and it keeps perfect time. Love it more than my quartz Omega Seamaster!

That Lucerne looks very nice, I saw one on a street.

[mikeal1892]

The new DTS is something. I want one bad. Its just like with the 00 deville body style I did not like it at First but once you see them and you watch them on the road they grow on you. I liked the 1994-1996 style the best myself it reminds me of the older caddys. I had a money green 94 and a white 96. I really want a Deville again but I think I'll wait a while. I dont owe much on what i have. And I dont think I care for the thoughs of someone else driving her. Shes prolley spent less than 20 nights outside. Ive just went out of my way with this one.

Michael -

[TDK]

BBF,

I agree with much of what you noted. Seeing a glossy-black, top-down Solstice pause at the corner and sensing it move with the grace and subtle snarl of a panther - was a treat indeed.

Unfortunately, GM, like numerous other enities, may have simply grown too large to adapt quickly enough. It can be compared to the operating of a small country as opposed to a group of investors. Almost every problem it has, can also be traced to its success and longevity. The competition does not have...{enter problem here}...because they are new.

It certainly has the talent to build whatever the market desires, but then there is a lot of talent out there among the competition as well. Perhaps this is related to something you also noted - the digital-information age.

It is not that it is "easier" now to build fine-working machines that are also astectically-pleasing works of art. But every bit of information now is not lost with the passing of any person - it is instantly the foundation to be built upon, quicker and better.

And BTW, I use a watch that has the analog hands along with a glass face that can also show the digital info within across multiple screens. The analog hands are easier/quicker to read because they require no comprehension compared to digital. This is similar to seeing a "No Smoking" circle/bar compared with reading the words. Regarding its value, would I bother to retrieve it from a toilet - sht no!

All IMHO

[JasonA]

In general, most of my favorite "real" cars out there are GM cars. I really like the new DTS. I also really like the Impala and Monte Carlo, and GM is now putting the Vortec 5300 engine into 'em. Great! I love the styling also. Their new GMT900 platform is apparently doing wonders for their trucks and big SUVs.

But it doesn't matter what we like, it just matters what the media likes, because 90% of the buying public out there accept what media outlets and Consumer Reports say as gospel. And they're pretty much anti-domestic, no matter how good it is. So we have a long way to go -- not in our vehicle building -- but in overcoming the media's slant against us.

[BodybyFisher]

TDK and Jason, my point here was NOT to analyze what GM is doing wrong, my point was to analyze what GM is doing right. There are many previous threads that have detailed service problems, labor problems, GM's inability to react quickly to the market demands and to project market demands, etc.

This thread was intended to highlight what GM is doing right. Now to some of you, that may be NOTHING... For me, when you look at some of the vehicles they are producing, I think they are trying really hard and producing good attractive cars. I could care less about the press, consumer reports, what do WE think...

[Bruce Nunnally]

The (future) muscle version of the Solstice (GXP?) is going to have a turbo version of the 2.4L 4 cyl,

possibly with direct injection and 260hp. There has been some discussion of badge variants with the premium 3.6L DOHC V6 Cadillac uses, probably after it goes direct injection for 300+ hp? Even a down-market Corvette partner (upmarket of the Solstice though) called a Chevrolet Sting Ray in discussion for 08.

Even with the base 170hp 4 cyl seems like a sweet car though. Design a 2 seat convertible you can sell for $20K that look great? Nice. See the similar Saturn Sky model also.

What is the secret to selling a lot of cars? Make cars people want to buy.

The GTO apparently is done in its current version. The Australian import's looks never really caught on well, although it is a very nice car. It has the current LS2 engine and is very quick. Never made its sales numbers. Import costs from Australia vs the US dollar were the last straw. Look at this for perhaps super buys as they wrap up inventory. Why did the ~$35K MSRP GTO not do well against the ~$25K Mustang GT with similar performance? I'd say the $10K MSRP difference was key, but the subdued looks of the GTO did not help.

Interested to see if Cadillac moves the Deville to the sigma platform like the CTS/STS/SRX for 07 or 08, or keeps it on the current platform another year or two. Not sure if the Hamtramck Factory can do the sigma architecture or not; the other sigmas are done at Lansing Grand River.

The freshened Deville look is working I think.

[BodybyFisher]

I agree, the GTO's looks are not that captivating. But being able to get an LS2 in a non Corvette is interesting. Size wise, the GTO is in keeping with the mini-haha's the baseball cap wearing generation is attracted to. If all my friends were driving supped up HONDA's, and Mazda's, the GTO would be an American Made KILLER. You have to admit that the youth market is big. The price tag may be out of reach for most. But then again, so was the price tag of the Dodge Charger, Challanger, GTO, GTX, Hurst Olds 442, etc when I was a kid. I am sure that the GTO has a standard engine, but then you take away the big hook of the LS2 engine. The GTO needed and needs to be marketed stronger, put in a movie, beating rice burners. I have yet to see a TV commercial. But yes, if it is trying to compete with the Mustang, $10K is a big difference. I have to look and see what other engines are available.

[justgreat]

there was an interesting point made by the host of autoline detroit that shows it's hard to hit a moving target: jaguar, buick, and pontiac have all had consistently high rankings by jd power for quality issues and yet their sales have lagged significantly; conversely, kia and suzuki have some of the worst rankings in quality and yet their sales have taken off.

gm will probably finish the year with less than 25% of the market. it wasn't too long ago that lutz was sporting a "30" pin (the market share that gm was striving to attain).

jackg

90seville 100k

[ted tcb]

For something special in a 2006 DTS, check out this ebay link.

Whatta car!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/06-4DR-CONV...cmdZViewItem#lg

Perhaps they'll trade me even for my crimson red 99 STS ... I'll even throw in my new mats and winter tire pkg.

[EldoGuy]

Last week, I went into my local Cadillac dealer. Sitting on the showroom floor was a Pontiac Solstice. WHAT a COOL and AGGRESSIVE car that is. I want one! If you have not seen one in person, check it out. It looks cool from every direction, its new but it retains strong cues to the old Pontiac's. Pontiac used to push the WIDE-TRACK ride and look and yes the Solstice is wide. This car should sell.

The Solstice IS nice, but last weekend we spend a few hours at the Vancouver car show and Saturn had the their version of the Solstice on display and this car is GORGEOUS

The Saturn Sky is the same platform as the Solstice but it looks WAY nicer ... the front and rear is different and also the dash has a better look ... and for the good "old" Cadillac fans, it has some chrome too

Saturn Sky link

[JasonA]

TDK and Jason, my point here was NOT to analyze what GM is doing wrong, my point was to analyze what GM is doing right. There are many previous threads that have detailed service problems, labor problems, GM's inability to react quickly to the market demands and to project market demands, etc.

This thread was intended to highlight what GM is doing right. Now to some of you, that may be NOTHING... For me, when you look at some of the vehicles they are producing, I think they are trying really hard and producing good attractive cars. I could care less about the press, consumer reports, what do WE think...

Actually BBF, my post is 100% about what GM is doing right, and that I don't think that their vehicles are the reason for slower sales. I'm in 100% AGREEMENT that GM vehicles have really been great over the past 10-15 years.

[Dan]

Did you see the interior for the new DTS, and the new 2007 Escalade? Amazing!! It's the probably the best I've ever seen. If only the CTS had such a nice interior, I'd run out and buy one today. Maybe GM will impress us with the new CTS that is coming out soon.

[JohnnyG]

I agree 100% that GM vehicles have been outstanding for the last several years. My '99 STS is the best car I've ever owned in SO many ways. I was formerly "on the fence" over which car has the most to offer in terms of cost per mile, but in the end GM has the most to offer without a doubt. The foreign car makers have a following for reasons that can be explained fairly easily. First, they don't screw up....and second GM always screws something up! The big stuff they get right, and in a big way, but it's the little stuff that gets noticed.

An example: I picked up a brand new 2004 Silverado in March 2004....had to drive to the gas station FIRST, 'cause the dealer had less than 5 gallons in the tank (little thing, BIG impression). So I get to the gas station and take the gas cap off for the first time, the tether that holds the cap is too short to reach the retaining hook on the inside of the fuel door! $.29 item....$1000.00 impression! Head the thing home, and at the first stop/turn I get a HUGE clunk from the driveline! I've never had it serviced or the driveline issue looked at BUT I got the impression of poor build quality. The noise is probably harmless, but the impression was already made.

[BMWburner]

Saw a Solstice in silver parked at the mall. That is a sexy little car if I do say so myself. I'm more than pleased to see the evolution of every model in GM's line. The interior of an Escalade was always a let down. It's nice see Cadillac's best seller now share it's interior with, well, Cadillac. The new Escalade is actually an amazing vehicle, worthy of the the brand's name and not just a marketing gimmick. Bob Lutz said it himself. "Auto makes often produce some of their best stuff when they're in dire straights". I think we've only begun to see what still is the worlds largest automaker will do to redeem it's self, either was the cars will be cool.

--Ben

[Bruce Nunnally]

Cadillac's recovery program is working great, and they just need to keep up the momentum. The CTS sales have been very good, the new Escalade is doing great. Arguably the SRX did not hit as hoped, but it is a good platform and hopefully can be tuned in. The XLR is a success as a halo car, and looks terrific on the road.

[stsjoe]

GM is making a good car, lets see them bring out the new Camaro and run the warranty up to 10 yrs 100k, that would get them some ground......QUICK!

Joe

[SQPL Seville]

I know that GM made some sweet new rides but.....My company just picked up a fleet of four 2500HDs and Three 3500HDs to replace the 1999 ford F250+350s HVAC Vans.The trucks are like night and day.Well made,quiet and sturdy Vans i must say.I had a 350 but they gave me a 2500hd(the old timers had dibs on the 3500s lol)I thought that Van would ride badly due too the crap i carry for work everyday..(the F350 didn't like it)I was surprised it took it all and begged for more.Most importantly.it rides like my Cadillac..smooth

The Captains chair is what really won me over to tell yah the truth...lol Six of the seven of us loved the new Vans...Lets say the Seventh kinda lived in his and didn't like to move.

In all,GM is making great vehicles.I really like the direction they are heading toward.For the young and old.I for one if i had the cash to spend would buy GTO myself.They sound and are mean..

Take care

[gygmy]

Gm has been making some darn good cars since the 1990's. I have always appriciated that fact because I could buy a used Cadillac that was a great value for the money. Oh well, those times are comming to an end because the rest of the world is now discovering what great cars these be. I got a decade of fun in a performance luxury car because folks had it in thier heads that Cadillacs were just for "old" folks". ( No dissing to you'se.) That new Solsice should be a hit. It has style, enough power, ( Why are new cars always introduced with underpowered plants?) and a price that should work. I want one ! Must sell off children. The GTO sucks as far as style goes but the price is right for the ride and you can not see the outside of your car when you be going screeming fast anyway. I haven't seen that Saturn version of the Solstis yet but will be keeping my eyes peeled. The CTS interior blows, Mattel has better plastic. Good luck GM.

[BodybyFisher]

Saturn Sky

http://www.saturn.com/saturn/SaturnIndex.jsp

[mikeal1892]

Saturn Sky

http://www.saturn.com/saturn/SaturnIndex.jsp

Hey Mike,

Thats sharp but a Saturn ??? hehe

Michael

[BodybyFisher]

Its GM.... I was helping gygmy, he said he had not seen the SKY yet

[JasonA]

I've said it before, but I love the GTO, styling included. The original GTO was as bland as it got, for back in the day. It was just a regular ol' Tempest. The current GTO looks like a regular ol' passenger coupe, one that can pretty much blow the doors off of anything out there. That's exactly what the original was and I give it to Pontiac for keeping the flavor of the original in the modern day.

[tjtjwdad]

Why did the ~$35K MSRP GTO not do well against the ~$25K Mustang GT with similar performance? I'd say the $10K MSRP difference was key, but the subdued looks of the GTO did not help.

The dealer (market adjustment) mark-up doesen't help either. The few that I saw on the lots were in the 42-45K price range.

Jim

[Bronson]

I read in May's issue of Hot Rod rumor has it that when designing the Soltice the enginers had an LS1 in the room to use for measurments, someone was thinking ahead keeping those frame rails far enough apart. LS1 Soltice????