confusion Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 So, here it is... I've done an experiment on my 92 deville over the last year. I drive a lot of miles and have started with 50,000 miles and at present have 76,000. My experiment is not scientifically valid; in that, it is not a double-blind study with a placebo group. However, these are my observations and I trust the accuracy. my driving conditions are always the same: mostly highway @ 60mph, some highway @ 70mph, and limited in town driving. I've run Framm, Puralator, STP, and Super Tech (Walmart). I've also run Castrol, Valvoline, Advance, and Super Tech oil. I've occassionally run Lucas in the oil. My opinions are based on: color of oil change, consumption of oil, and "quietness" of engine. my conclusion: Super Tech keeps the oil cleaner(the other's preform about the same), 20w 50 keeps the engine a bit quieter, and the 4.9 engine consumes less 20w 50 oil. The engine is in excellent condition. My father was a used car dealer and had many musclecars including big block vettes etc. He told me to run 20w 50 in everything all the time. The cold weather included. Now, I know there are various and sundry opinions on this topic. These are my first hand observations and not "hear say" nor "what veryone says". I look forward to hearing the results of your experiments. BTW: Lucas didn't seem to make any noticable difference for me. I'm going to run a full synthetic next oil change to see how it performs Super Tech filter $2.05, Supertech oil $4.57(?) for 5 quarts, Synthetic $11-13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Synthetic in my 91 4.9 caused the #1 main bearing knock to get louder. Quite frankly synthetic oil is not necessary and a waste of money in my opinion and in the opinion of the guru, unless of course it came with synthetic from the factory. Some have also said that synthetic caused leaks. I always us AC Delco filters, 20W50 is too thick especially in the winter, the heaviest grade that has been recommended for the 4.9 is the Delvac 15W40.. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 20W-50 was often appropriate for older engines with much looser tolerances, but that oil is way too thick for a modern engine. You lose power and economy, can sometimes damage seals, and will often times have dry startups as the oil pump cannot pump that thick oil quickly. Whatever brand or type (conventional vs. synthetic) you prefer, it's always best to stick with the recommended viscosity, or don't go more than a notch or two higher...as BodyByFisher said, 15W-40 in a 4.9L engine, and maybe a Northstar, although I wouldn't use anything heavier than a 10W-30 unless there was a bonefied reason (like the #1 bearing thump in the 4.9L). Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Some fuel economy, power (even subjective) data would not hurt. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurlee Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 When you run synthetic you'll find weeping at some surfaces and maybe even a new leak or two. Synthetic is molecularly much smaller than organic oil and will find it's way into, around and through spaces too small for regular oil to pass through. Engines designed for synthetic need to stay with it - those not so designed don't really benefit from it. Side note - the engine oil in motorcycles often serves as transmission fluid and bathes the "wet" clutch as well. It's well documented and generally understood that moving to synthetic causes "false neutral's" as the transmission dogs slip in their effort to place the gears and also that power is lost though slipping clutch plates. The stuff is just too slippery for some applications. Scott Scott 1996 El Dorado 2006 STS 2000 Corvette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 I've been using SuperTech oil for several years now and have no complaints. Even heard some good reports about it in other threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill K Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 My son has a 94 Honda Civic w/150,000 Mi on it. It developed as valve/lifter? ticking when cold. Tried motor flush, valve silencer ect. Still had the tick untill we switched to synthetic. Now, no more moise. Also not there were no oil leaks. I now run synthetic in my 98 Merc. Mtneer V8 and no leaks there either. Synthetic may not be for everyone but it does help some and doesnt necessarily cause leaks in older motors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Here what Mobil states about leaks in older cars: Myth: Mobil 1 will leak out of the seals of older cars. Reality: Mobil 1 does not cause leaks. In fact, new Mobil 1 was tested in dozens of industry standard and OEM tests to prove its seal performance. It is fully compatible with the elastomeric materials from which all automotive seals and gaskets are made. If an older engine is in good condition and does not have oil leaks, Mobil 1 provides the same advantages as when used in a new engine. ExxonMobil recommends taking measures to repair the leaks, then using Mobil 1. ExxonMobil also recommends following the automobile manufacturer's manual for the proper oil to use. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonjaab Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 GUYS...........I have a couple big GM mega dealers in my area who offer a 15 minute $19.95 LOF................ Pull in line.........browse the new cars and git er done in less than 1 hour........................ N-Star has a $7 buck extra charge because of the 8 qts. With new filter................ I change my oil every 3-4k miles anyhoo and generally run my Caddies up to 100k plus miles on cheap dino oil and haven't had a engine problem and trade them in ! Heck for that kind of $$ vs. buying the oil/filter and doing it myself plus what my time is worth ....Its a bargain !........geo 93 DeVille-13 Chevy Impala 72 GTO - 77 Triumph Bonneville 84 Z-28 Syracuse NY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschunke Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 color of oil- So the darker the oil means detergents cleaned and absorbed more soot that would otherwise build up on the engine walls. Darker is assumed to be better in this experiement? How about inspecting the oil filter for speckles of worn bearings? In my own experiment Mob 1 wore the engine bearings much faster than the conventional oils. My experiement, my results, my oppinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 color of oil- So the darker the oil means detergents cleaned and absorbed more soot that would otherwise build up on the engine walls. Darker is assumed to be better in this experiement? How about inspecting the oil filter for speckles of worn bearings? In my own experiment Mob 1 wore the engine bearings much faster than the conventional oils. My experiement, my results, my oppinion. Actually, my assumption is that darker oil means the filter is not filtering as well. therefore, the oil is darker and not as clean. darker oil is bad in this experiment. Synthetic in my 91 4.9 caused the #1 main bearing knock to get louder. Quite frankly synthetic oil is not necessary and a waste of money in my opinion and in the opinion of the guru, unless of course it came with synthetic from the factory. Some have also said that synthetic caused leaks. I always us AC Delco filters, 20W50 is too thick especially in the winter, the heaviest grade that has been recommended for the 4.9 is the Delvac 15W40.. Just a thought here. If the bearing thump was louder, does this mean the engine was running worse? maybe not. i.e. 20w 50 would probably have made the thump less noticable than the standard 10w 30. But from your post 20w 50 is not good. just playing mike....joe Some fuel economy, power (even subjective) data would not hurt. adellac, I'll have to start my experiment over to have this data for you. now that the egr's been cleaned some performance issues may be different. joe p.s. this is a very good point. and to be honest i did not keep track of these specifics. i didn't notice any profound differences in power, economy, etc. (i know this is a really lame answer, but, it's all i have ) Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 The engine #1 main bearing knock was LOUDER with synthetic because synthetic is so THIN (and it relies upon an 'effective' viscosity)..... Before you re-invent the wheel, we had a GM Drivetrain engineer here that said if the engine knock was loud to use DELVAC 15W40, he advised AGAINST 20W50 in that engine as it was TOO thick/heavy and you may get some dry cold starts and delayed oil pressure levels.. That opinion does not come from a DUMB *smurf* like ME, it comes from a GM engineer......I am just doing you a favor and relaying his knowledge to you! WHO THE HELL cares if the ENGINE KNOCK is better with 20W50 if you screw up the engine! I'm just playing with you here...... I myself only used 3 quarts of 10W30 and two quarts of 10W40 and my knock was SILENT... the engineer used to LAUGH at me for doing that but I am VERY conservative...and did not want to go to 15W40 as it was not necessary or required for my condition.... The point was that SYNTHETIC was NOT advised in the 4.9 nor is 20W50. I was providing you with MY experience with Mobil 1 in my 91 4.9! If you want to experiment try 15W40, but it will not be as cheap as some of the oils you are using.... you can get DELVAC in Costco. Of course if you want to see for yourself, you are free to try Mobil 1, do me a favor however and use it in August, when the temps are 98 to 102 degrees and when you are in bumper to bumper traffic from Philadelphia to Washington DC like I did. My coolant temp was 230 to 235 for about 5 hours. By the time I got to Virginia Beach my 4.9 was knocking SO FN loud I thought I threw a rod.....plus I was consuming oil quickly and needed to add two quarts! Scary day to say the least. GOODBYE MOBIL 1 and it was fine again for the next 5 years and I am in New York City/Long Island bumper to bumper traffic... Hows that for an experiment and experience? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 color of oil- So the darker the oil means detergents cleaned and absorbed more soot that would otherwise build up on the engine walls. Darker is assumed to be better in this experiement? How about inspecting the oil filter for speckles of worn bearings? In my own experiment Mob 1 wore the engine bearings much faster than the conventional oils. My experiement, my results, my oppinion. Actually that's what I thought too. Lighter oil means more soot left in the engine. I assume a filter filters rather mechanical particles than "color". I can be wrong though. How big are the particles of the soot? Who knows... The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcd1184 Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 I thought I read awhile back that the only real function of an oil filter was to capture break-in debris if necessary, and from there on out, unless a mishap occurs creating more debris, the filters are pretty much decoration. Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 Kent, the guru did say that the most important oil filter was the first if I recall.. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 Mike, I wasn't trying to offend you. I see clearly, now, the rest of the bearing thump story. I knew starting this thread that we'd have some fun with it. Joe BTW: I trust you and have intended Not to use 20w 50 in my '92. I just thought I'd wind you up a little... Maybe I shouldn't bother with my thread about not needing platinum plugs. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 I know you weren't, I needed to tell you the rest of the story. Don't trust me, trust the GURU.... Discuss anything you want, this is a discussion board. My caps are for emphasis, I'm not yelling... This is a discussion board. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschunke Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 The oil filter has absolutely nothing to do with the color of the oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 The oil filter has absolutely nothing to do with the color of the oil. yes. i was wrong about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Odd that you don't see Ranger replying on this thread. He must realize, as I do, that trying to give someone advice on oil choice is useless. Most need to learn the hard way. I'm with BodybyFisher on all of his comments, yelling or not. If someone is sincere in there beliefs, they are bound to yell once in a while. If you would like to read about oil, hear all the myths, listen to all who have found "The Magic Elixer Of Engine Life" please go to Bobistheoilguy.com. There is enough info there to keep you happy for the rest of your life. In fact, it is the site that ended bbob's career on this board when he attempted to teach them about engine design. Adalack is also correct, oil color has absolutely nothing to do with its performance or protection level in your engine. My personal favorite these days is Havoline and Delco filters. I have personally run Havoline 5W-30 in a 2004 Silverado for over 12,500 miles and had the oil sampled. When posted to the Bobistheoilguy site, the results blew away all of the overpriced exotic sythetic oils and P/O'd all of them so much, the entire thread was promptly deleted. Right now (cool temps) I have Havoline 5W-30 in my '99 STS (73,540 mi.) and today pulled 30.1 MPG for over 75 miles when kept at a steady 60 mph! Try that with a 15W-40! Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Odd that you don't see Ranger replying on this thread. He must realize, as I do, that trying to give someone advice on oil choice is useless. Most need to learn the hard way. I'm with BodybyFisher on all of his comments, yelling or not. If someone is sincere in there beliefs, they are bound to yell once in a while. If you would like to read about oil, hear all the myths, listen to all who have found "The Magic Elixer Of Engine Life" please go to Bobistheoilguy.com. There is enough info there to keep you happy for the rest of your life. In fact, it is the site that ended bbob's career on this board when he attempted to teach them about engine design. Adalack is also correct, oil color has absolutely nothing to do with its performance or protection level in your engine. My personal favorite these days is Havoline and Delco filters. I have personally run Havoline 5W-30 in a 2004 Silverado for over 12,500 miles and had the oil sampled. When posted to the Bobistheoilguy site, the results blew away all of the overpriced exotic sythetic oils and P/O'd all of them so much, the entire thread was promptly deleted. Right now (cool temps) I have Havoline 5W-30 in my '99 STS (73,540 mi.) and today pulled 30.1 MPG for over 75 miles when kept at a steady 60 mph! Try that with a 15W-40! JohnnyG, I get your point and this is some of the reason i posted about my '92 deville. Unlike some, I'm able to admit incomplete knowledge in areas of the automotive spectrum. I think my main idea about the whole oil thing is that a lot of people are real uptight about what oil should be used. I disagree. All different types of oil can be used and will be just fine. the problem is that if a guy says" i got 250,000 using something other than what some guru says" he's stupid and lucky. hmmm. I'll let it go now, but i just don't buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Well, "You'll have that" as they say. Most guys I know would rather give up their wife or girlfreind than their motor oil! (Most guys I know also have a "number 3" sticker on their truck with a HALO above it too!!!). Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Let me clarify, I wasn't yelling I was PO'd..... there is a difference! We miss the GM powertrain guru, when he spoke the thread was usually over, but it was because he was the final word, the source. There was no refuting his opinion, as he had run 4.9's and NS on dynos and probably blew up a few. When he ran tests, he ran the NS varying between part and WOT for weeks at a time. When he said, synthetic was NOT necessary, I believed him, however the guys over at bobs OIL did not.... When I posted as Scotty, I once asked this question, unfortunately, his answer was erased when he left.... BUT, his answer was AMAZING! Something like, the NS was run full throttle for 13 days straight! And he said that it was run at 125 MPH for days in the Arizona testing grounds...in 100 degree heat... We miss him... http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...1&st=&p=entry Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Well, "You'll have that" as they say. Most guys I know would rather give up their wife or girlfreind than their motor oil! (Most guys I know also have a "number 3" sticker on their truck with a HALO above it too!!!). Dude, that's funny! and the bad part is, they'd probably be making the right decision to get rid of the girl. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Three subjects should be banned: politics, religion and motor oils! The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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