stsevillests Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 While driving a couple weeks ago I smelled gas in the cabin. I only smelled it that day and have not smelled it since. Reading older posts about the plastic fuel rail recall had me a little concerned so I looked at mine today. It looks like hard black plastic to me so I called the local dealership, gave them the VIN number and they are telling me the fuel rail was replaced in 2004. If they replaced it wouldn't it be stainless steel line going from injector to injector? The only steel looking part of it I see is behind the power steering pump that has a ground wired connected to it. The engine was replaced in 1998 because of head gasket failure. I have the receipt for it. It says the technician was unable to fix due to unavailability of helicoils so they ordered new engine at 44,839 miles, reassembled old engine for core. They are telling me that the recall has already been done and they won't replace this under the recall, I will have to pay for it. So my question is this a new fuel rail? I read an older post that said the recall is good for the life of the car. The rail is not leaking now but I am concerned it may start leaking and start a fire. Here is a picture of the fuel rail http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/harleydavfatboy/100_1414.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 that is not the new fuel rail and certainly looks like the original system If the dealer replaced the engine, that engine has the original system not the new stainless steel fuel rail, something is wrong there. If you smell fuel, DO NOT drive the car, we have a member who lost his car to a fire as a result of the fuel rail blowing, I am sure he will pop in... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93SixtySpecial Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 That's what my 99's fuel rail looks like. Does the recall affect that year? -Dusty- 2006 Cadillac DTS Glacier Gold Tri-Coat with 175,000 miles 1993 Cadillac Sixty Special Gold Mist with 185,000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stsevillests Posted February 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 I only smelled gas that 1 time, have not smelled it again. I am the 2nd owner of the car. The previous owner had a Cadillac dealership in Cincinnati, Oh replace the engine. I have the receipt for it. He gave me a lot of receipts and had hand written notes on things that was done to the car from tire rotations, oil changes, brakes, plugs/wires etc. probably everything that was done to the car while he owned it. He wrote down that the fuel rail was repaired because of a small pin hole leak, but no receipt for it. The dealer here in Naples, Fl told me (on the phone) it was replaced in 2004, long after the engine was replaced, and I would have to pay to have it replaced now, as the recall is closed. It is not leaking now but I would like it replaced, I was just wondering if the dealer should fix because of the recall or am I going to have to pay for. On an older post, a member said that a recall is good for the life of the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Here is some info, from what I can see the recall only affected 95 to 97 http://caddyinfo.ipb...h=1entry25886 See this link for more http://caddyinfo.ipb...h=1entry14684 Here is the NHTSA info, see the bolded area in the paragraph below NHTSA Action Number: EA04003 Component(s): FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE Date Investigation Opened: February 3, 2004 Date Investigation Closed: April 23, 2004 Summary: ON MARCH 3, 2004, GENERAL MOTORS NOTIFIED ODI THAT IT WAS RECALLING APPROXIMATELY 94,000 MY 1995-97 OLDSMOBILE AURORA VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 4.0L V8 ENGINES (RPO L47 - VIN8 "C") TO ADDRESS CONCERNS WITH UNDERHOOD FUEL LEAKAGE FROM CRACKED FUEL RAILS AND, IN SOME OF THE VEHICLES, CRACKED FUEL RETURN LINES. ACCORDING TO GM, THE NYLON TUBING (PA12) USED IN THE FUEL RAIL CONSTRUCTION IN THESE VEHICLES MAY DEGRADE AND CRACK. GM'S SUPPLIER ATTRIBUTED THE CRACKING TO THE COMBINED EFFECTS OF HEAT, TIME, ALCOHOL FUEL, FUEL PRESSURE CYCLING, AND DESIGN STRESSES. IN ADDITION, GM STATED THAT THE MY 1995 AURORA USES A UNIQUE UNDERHOOD FUEL RETURN LINE THAT MAY ALSO CRACK AT UNUSUALLY HIGH RATES. GM DEALERS WILL INSTALL A NEW FUEL RAIL CONSTRUCTED OUT OF STAINLESS STEEL IN ALL OF THE RECALLED VEHICLES AND WILL ALSO INSTALL A REVISED CHASSIS FUEL RETURN LINE IN THE MY 1995 AURORAS. ON APRIL 16, 2004, GENERAL MOTORS NOTIFIED ODI THAT IT WAS ADDING APPROXIMATELY 389,000 MY 1995-97 CADILLAC SEVILLE, DEVILLE AND ELDORADO VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 4.6L V8 ENGINES (RPO'S LD8 AND L37 - VIN8 "Y" AND "9") TO RECALL 04V-110. THE RECALLED CADILLACS WILL RECEIVE THE NEW STAINLESS STEEL FUEL RAILS. THIS ENGINEERING ANALYSIS IS CLOSED. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 I only smelled gas that 1 time, have not smelled it again. I am the 2nd owner of the car. The previous owner had a Cadillac dealership in Cincinnati, Oh replace the engine. I have the receipt for it. He gave me a lot of receipts and had hand written notes on things that was done to the car from tire rotations, oil changes, brakes, plugs/wires etc. probably everything that was done to the car while he owned it. He wrote down that the fuel rail was repaired because of a small pin hole leak, but no receipt for it. The dealer here in Naples, Fl told me (on the phone) it was replaced in 2004, long after the engine was replaced, and I would have to pay to have it replaced now, as the recall is closed. It is not leaking now but I would like it replaced, I was just wondering if the dealer should fix because of the recall or am I going to have to pay for. On an older post, a member said that a recall is good for the life of the car. You need to contact the area rep and explain the story to them, its possible that the fuel rail was replaced on the prior engine but not on this engine, even though I would have thought that they would have only replaced the short block and bolted the intake and accessories on the new short block. That engine if it was a complete engine replaced in 2004 may NOT need the fuel rail replaced but if you are smelling ANY fuel you need to find it, and you need to determine if that setup you have is suseptible to that recall, do not fool around or park it in your garage! Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stsevillests Posted February 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Thanks Bodybyfisher, that first link you posted http://caddyinfo.ipb...h=1entry25886 It said Kevin said if the plastic fuel rail has GM213M Type F written on it that it does not need to be replaced, Mine has that written on the plastic tubing between the injectors. So I guess mine is safe. I would feel more secure if it was stainless steel. The plastic is real hard, no flex at all to it. Just thinking how much heat is under the hood and how the plastic cover on the blower motor has already cracked and fell off in pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyjaws Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 if it ant broke leave it alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 if it ant broke leave it alone Terrible advice, if he is smelling gas and that is the original rail assembly, one pop and he loses his car, ask warren Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Thanks Bodybyfisher, that first link you posted http://caddyinfo.ipb...h=1entry25886 It said Kevin said if the plastic fuel rail has GM213M Type F written on it that it does not need to be replaced, Mine has that written on the plastic tubing between the injectors. So I guess mine is safe. I would feel more secure if it was stainless steel. The plastic is real hard, no flex at all to it. Just thinking how much heat is under the hood and how the plastic cover on the blower motor has already cracked and fell off in pieces. Glad to hear it! Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott y Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I wonder how many have actually failed...perhaps failure is due to an amatuer being in there at one point in it's life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I wonder how many have actually failed...perhaps failure is due to an amatuer being in there at one point in it's life? I believe the fuel caused the plastic to deteriorate and the high pressure in the system causes it to burst Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott y Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 So,it's bound to happen,since the upgrade to SS? I'm not lovin the sounds of that!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott y Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I've seen a few fricassed Northstars in the boneyard...Yikes!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I have seen 3, 2 devilles, 1 Seville, and a weird one a Catera. I dont know what happened to the catera but it burned completely under the hood and to the front seat backs GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 So,it's bound to happen,since the upgrade to SS? I'm not lovin the sounds of that!! Who said that this will happen with a stainless steel fuel rail? The stainless steel rails are fine The original fuel rails deteriorated I believe due to ethanol in the fuel. The fuel rail shown above the looks like the original plastic rail was not in the recall, mostlikely because the compound used in its manufacture is not suseptible to deterioration. I use the term 'plastic' loosely in this case, its not actually plastic. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I've seen a few fricassed Northstars in the boneyard...Yikes!! You never know what caused a fire, it could be electrical, it could be from an accident, poor mechanical repairs, don't assume its related to this recall The same to rockfangd, I have seen ahole wire amps improperly with no fuses direct to the battery. You never know what caused a fire there are a lot of aholes out there Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 There are two types of plastics: thermoplastics and thermosetting polymers. if the fuel rail is not metal, it is plastic. polyethylene, polystyrene, polyvinyl chloride and polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE). i had a plastic rail leak. i have a metal rail now. if you smell gas, certainly find out what the issue is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I know it has been a long time since the fuel rail recall but did the '98+ engines have stainless fuel rails? Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 There are two types of plastics: thermoplastics and thermosetting polymers. if the fuel rail is not metal, it is plastic. polyethylene, polystyrene, polyvinyl chloride and polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE). i had a plastic rail leak. i have a metal rail now. if you smell gas, certainly find out what the issue is. Thanks Joe Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93SixtySpecial Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I know it has been a long time since the fuel rail recall but did the '98+ engines have stainless fuel rails? I believe mine is plastic. I will check later today. -Dusty- 2006 Cadillac DTS Glacier Gold Tri-Coat with 175,000 miles 1993 Cadillac Sixty Special Gold Mist with 185,000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott y Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 So,it's bound to happen,since the upgrade to SS? I'm not lovin the sounds of that!! Who said that this will happen with a stainless steel fuel rail? The stainless steel rails are fine The original fuel rails deteriorated I believe due to ethanol in the fuel. The fuel rail shown above the looks like the original plastic rail was not in the recall, mostlikely because the compound used in its manufacture is not suseptible to deterioration. I use the term 'plastic' loosely in this case, its not actually plastic. I'm asking, is this something that is going to happen with the plastic rail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 So,it's bound to happen,since the upgrade to SS? I'm not lovin the sounds of that!! Who said that this will happen with a stainless steel fuel rail? The stainless steel rails are fine The original fuel rails deteriorated I believe due to ethanol in the fuel. The fuel rail shown above the looks like the original plastic rail was not in the recall, mostlikely because the compound used in its manufacture is not suseptible to deterioration. I use the term 'plastic' loosely in this case, its not actually plastic. I'm asking, is this something that is going to happen with the plastic rail? If yours appears to be a plastic material, it could be that its been revised to resist the fuel/ethanol, so not to worry. As you can see above, the fuel rail had a certain part number on it, and it was not part of the recall, some of the earlier fuel rails were negatively impacted by the ethanol Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott y Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Phew..! I hope so.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 if it ant broke leave it alone That's a dumb answer.. So...you NEVER do any maintenance on ANYTHING you own until it actually breaks??? Strange way to operate... Did I just waste my money on having the oil changed in my car? The engine was still running OK with the old oil. Did I throw EVEN MORE money away by having the coolant changed and the transmission fluid changed? Nothing was BROKE on the car,,, so I reckon,,,by your logic... I just wasted all that money... for NOTHING... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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