Cracked engine block on 2000 Cadillacs

[Ranger]

I never saw that post either. Didn't know he got banned and still don't see the reason for it. He just seemed to disagree with us. I've since spoken to him and I think you guys are taking him all wrong.

[JimD]

I never saw that post either. Didn't know he got banned and still don't see the reason for it. He just seemed to disagree with us. I've since spoken to him and I think you guys are taking him all wrong.

The post was only up for a few hours at most. And yes, I read it. And figured that would be the end of this entire thread.

Larry, maybe he comes across as a different person face to face. That reflects poorly on his written language skills (and the vocabulary could use a little polish too).

[BodybyFisher]

I never saw that post either. Didn't know he got banned and still don't see the reason for it. He just seemed to disagree with us. I've since spoken to him and I think you guys are taking him all wrong.

That was not the entire post, he made some other statements that to me were untrue, but they needed to come down, but that combined with his prior post showed that he was arguementative and he didnt was to understand that there was NO trend of cracked blocks, YOU said it, Jim said it, Bruce said it and I said it..... he did not want to hear that, it was not disagreeing with us, it was that he wanted to believe what HE wanted to believe. I am not sure how we took that wrong

He needs to take a course in Statistics

[edb150]

I have 2112s car at my shop and actually now own it. I know him personally so I cannot get into a big discussion on it but as I said he was somehow looking for a definate reason for the cracking. I explained that its too early to know an answer. If this cracked block issue becomes a common occurance then maybe someday there will be an answer. I posted on the other site first and got some good input .I think he was looking for an answer as to why the 2000 block could crack and I do not think anyone has that answer if there is one. Its definately not a rarity from my standpoint since theres 3 in my eyesight daily. if I dont see any more for a while I will pass it off as bad luck. I saw all the posts in full and will just call it an argument with no definate right answer. I advised him to not fix the car since he will never feel secure with it if he feels theres a chance that the replacement motor could crack. In reading all the posts i can understand everyones points, and in speaking with 2112 can say that he was disturbed by some of the answers he got.His ideas were not pulled from thin air and these motors were not laying in a junk yard. He as well as myself did some research before he asked these questions. I will admit he could have handeled it way differently but again I have all the posts printed that are not shown here and will also say that the others let the argument get the better of them. I do not think its fair to show parts of his banned posts with out everyones post being shown also. Just my 2 cents . Seemed like a lot of back and forth unconstructive arguing if you ask me. Hopefully my findings will not be passed of as some junkyard crawl but hopefully as you know I work on these things on a daily basis. You can say I am in the trenches. As time allows I will let everyone know what i see or find out and if there are anymore cracked blocks. Lets hope not. Thanks to everyone for their input and if anyone want to talk to me i can be reached at 847-878-5676 and BBF dont call and ask for 2112s # { just kidding} lol. i somehow feel responsible for being the magnet of the cracked blocks and starting all these problems. I thought I was helping the Cadillac community by doing all these head gasket jobs...Maybe i will switch to oil changes only lol

[edb150]

You say combustion stresses would be within the steel sleeve and that is correct, but the HEAD is held on to the outside of the block where it is 1/8", right below the bolt ends. Everytime the plug fires on the power stroke, the head wants to be pushed off, that is the stress I was referring to. Maybe these are bad castings?

This is the most logical answer . After looking at all the blocks several times this makes the most sense. Not sure if its bad castings or just a design flaw

[BodybyFisher]

By the way, I did show a part of HIS post that was hidden, because of how harsh he was to me because it was bothering me. No one else had their posts hidden, everyone elses posts are here for everyone to see.

I appreciate you coming back and explaining more

I think that 2112 was looking for us to agree with you 100% that there is a problem. As I have said, we are NOT seeing cracked blocks and we stated so, and that did not sit well with 2112, as he has full confidence in you.

[Cadillac Jim]

If you look at his first few posts, he came in swinging and never listened to anyone, and got argumentative when presented with facts, then abusive.

A lot of forums allow that behavior as a phase of discussion. Often the disucssion move on and something interesting is said or something important is accomplished. But one of the reasons that I am active here but not most other forums is that I can post here and help people out, and get help occasionally, and even discuss opinions, without any expectation of time-wasting and aggravating things that obfuscate or prevent getting right to the point, as we just about always do here.

How many forums can you PM "One of these days, you are going to have to surrender your VIP pass for the short bus. Remember, you are using big boy underwear now..." to a Moderator and continue to post?

[Bruce Nunnally]

I have 2112s car at my shop and actually now own it. I know him personally so I cannot get into a big discussion on it but as I said he was somehow looking for a definate reason for the cracking. I explained that its too early to know an answer. If this cracked block issue becomes a common occurance then maybe someday there will be an answer. I posted on the other site first and got some good input .I think he was looking for an answer as to why the 2000 block could crack and I do not think anyone has that answer if there is one. Its definately not a rarity from my standpoint since theres 3 in my eyesight daily. if I dont see any more for a while I will pass it off as bad luck. I saw all the posts in full and will just call it an argument with no definate right answer. I advised him to not fix the car since he will never feel secure with it if he feels theres a chance that the replacement motor could crack. In reading all the posts i can understand everyones points, and in speaking with 2112 can say that he was disturbed by some of the answers he got.His ideas were not pulled from thin air and these motors were not laying in a junk yard. He as well as myself did some research before he asked these questions. I will admit he could have handeled it way differently but again I have all the posts printed that are not shown here and will also say that the others let the argument get the better of them. I do not think its fair to show parts of his banned posts with out everyones post being shown also. Just my 2 cents . Seemed like a lot of back and forth unconstructive arguing if you ask me. Hopefully my findings will not be passed of as some junkyard crawl but hopefully as you know I work on these things on a daily basis. You can say I am in the trenches. As time allows I will let everyone know what i see or find out and if there are anymore cracked blocks. Lets hope not. Thanks to everyone for their input and if anyone want to talk to me i can be reached at 847-878-5676 and BBF dont call and ask for 2112s # { just kidding} lol. i somehow feel responsible for being the magnet of the cracked blocks and starting all these problems. I thought I was helping the Cadillac community by doing all these head gasket jobs...Maybe i will switch to oil changes only lol

This seems ideal -- continue to collect information, and then try to reach some conclusions.

For a 2000 car with a cracked block, if that were as has been presented the only/unique symptom, wouldn't the repair be to replace the block and rebuild the engine?

I appreciate that this repair perhaps costs more than the car so it becomes economically unattractive, but if one wanted to repair the engine would there be some reason not to simply replace the broken part (the block) and rebuild?

[Cadillac Jim]

I would check around and see if there is a possible repair. For example, if it's just a crack in the water jacket that spans one oil gallery, perhaps it can be welded and the oil gallery bridged with a little plumbing. If there is something structural in the damage, then there is probably damage through that entire area and possibly other areas that don't show a crack, such as near the rear motor mounts and wherever the engine was originally pushed to cause the damage.

A bad casting seems quite unlikely to me. The mechanism speculated upon in an earlier message, a splash at the beginning that hardened and did not fuse with the rest of the pour, would be a process defect that would make the whole batch of pours junk. Since the blocks are quite thoroughly tested before and after being machined for use, the odds of *all* of them passing so that the batch isn't scrapped and the batch getting into the production line seem slim to none to me. If it's a casting defect, it would seem to be more likely something peculiar to that particular single block. And, whatever happened, it happened to a ten-year-old car; a casting defect would likely be caught as a coolant leak when the engine was under dyno testing during production. Or, worse, oil in the water during testing, since the crack crossed an oil gallery.

[BodybyFisher]

I posted on the other site first and got some good input. I think he was looking for an answer as to why the 2000 block could crack and I do not think anyone has that answer if there is one. Its definately not a rarity from my standpoint since theres 3 in my eyesight daily. If I dont see any more for a while I will pass it off as bad luck. I saw all the posts in full and will just call it an argument with no definate right answer. I advised him to not fix the car since he will never feel secure with it if he feels theres a chance that the replacement motor could crack.

You say you posted on the other site and got some good input. From what I can see, the input you got was how to get a NEW BLOCK. The GOOD INPUT you received from THIS SITE, where we said that NO WE ARE NOT SEEING CRACKED BLOCKS and WE WOULD be seeing them if it was happening. THAT IS GOOD INFORMATION, that makes you comfortable.

The problem is that YOU think its NOT a rarity, and 2112 is in your camp. AGAIN, WE DO NOT see cracks happening, NOR does the other site from what I can see. That was my argument. NOW, you say, "If I dont see any more for a while I will pass it off as bad luck", THAT is what we have been saying all along, YOU are having bad luck.

Rather than take solice in CADDYINFO who has been here for over 10 years with

Total Posts of 166,129 and 11,325 Total Members, both you and 2112 preferred to take the safe route and NOT fix the car. That is your choice but I think it was based on a bad sample.

[Cadillac Jim]

To repeat myself, whatever happened, happened to a ten-year-old car.

[edb150]

I posted on the other site first and got some good input. I think he was looking for an answer as to why the 2000 block could crack and I do not think anyone has that answer if there is one. Its definately not a rarity from my standpoint since theres 3 in my eyesight daily. If I dont see any more for a while I will pass it off as bad luck. I saw all the posts in full and will just call it an argument with no definate right answer. I advised him to not fix the car since he will never feel secure with it if he feels theres a chance that the replacement motor could crack.

You say you posted on the other site and got some good input. From what I can see, the input you got was how to get a NEW BLOCK. The GOOD INPUT you received from THIS SITE, where we said that NO WE ARE NOT SEEING CRACKED BLOCKS and WE WOULD be seeing them if it was happening. THAT IS GOOD INFORMATION, that makes you comfortable.

The problem is that YOU think its NOT a rarity, and 2112 is in your camp. AGAIN, WE DO NOT see cracks happening, NOR does the other site from what I can see. That was my argument. NOW, you say, "If I dont see any more for a while I will pass it off as bad luck", THAT is what we have been saying all along, YOU are having bad luck.

Rather than take solice in CADDYINFO who has been here for over 10 years with

Total Posts of 166,129 and 11,325 Total Members, both you and 2112 preferred to take the safe route and NOT fix the car. That is your choice but I think it was based on a bad sample.

[edb150]

Not sure where you got the idea that the car will not be fixed. maybe from 2112. I now own the car and will definately fix it. I have aquired 2 motors without problems and will use one ,after i insert and regasket it.

[BodybyFisher]

Not sure where you got the idea that the car will not be fixed. maybe from 2112. I now own the car and will definately fix it. I have aquired 2 motors without problems and will use one ,after i insert and regasket it.

It won't be fixed for 2112, he blinked

Terrific, let us know how it turns out

[edb150]

Here we go again. I have another cracked block in my shop. That brings the total to enter my shop up to 4. 2000 dts full of antifreeze well maintained with 113 k. I know we all think its rare but its beyond that. I said i would post any updates so here I am. I do headgaskets on northstars to the tune of 1 or 2 a week so this is not a junkyard crawl or pipedream but indeed a reality for me. This one is cracked the same as the last 3

[scott y]

Would it be possible to have a cracked block and drive around not knowing it? I realize that it would no doubt leak but ther are some people that wouldn't notice or care until it became much more of an issue.

[edb150]

Would it be possible to have a cracked block and drive around not knowing it? I realize that it would no doubt leak but ther are some people that wouldn't notice or care until it became much more of an issue.

The 4 I have seen and repaired all leaked large amounts of antifreeze onto the ground so i do not think its possible to not be aware of it.

[BodybyFisher]

Very odd, thanks for the update

Have you taken any of these engines apart and inspected them?

[edb150]

Yes 3 of the 4, as #4 came in yesterday. They are all cracked below the headbolt thread depth which means the threads held .The bolts were tight and all 4 cars are broken in th same place meaning lower head bolts which are deeper than the upper bolts. The 2000 up northstar headbolt threads were changed as you know so it would appear they do hold better but it looks like they hold too well and the cylinder pressure cracks the block.??bg n

[adallak]

Yes 3 of the 4, as #4 came in yesterday. They are all cracked below the headbolt thread depth which means the threads held .The bolts were tight and all 4 cars are broken in th same place meaning lower head bolts which are deeper than the upper bolts. The 2000 up northstar headbolt threads were changed as you know so it would appear they do hold better but it looks like they hold too well and the cylinder pressure cracks the block.??bg n

GM might be interested in those cracked blocks. Something to think about.

[Cadillac Jim]

Interesting. I didn't realize that the water jacket went below the head bolt threads on the Northstar, which I thought were pretty low because they are torque-and-twist. In most blocks the water jacket goes only a few inches below the deck plate, and serves primarily as a manifold for even water flow across the base of the heads. The pistons are oil cooled in most engines.

Are you sure that we aren't looking at seepage at the famous aluminum block "porosity" and engines that don't have the stop-leak pellets in them?

[BodybyFisher]

The block has an integral sleeve, so I dont know how cylinder stresses can do this. Were these blocks all 2000 blocks? There was a piston replacement done in 2000 for piston knocking or rocking in the cylinders, I wonder if its possible that blocks that didnt have their pistons replaced progressed to cracking from cylinders cocking in their bores?

That this is occuring at the same location, is curious,

Is the engine mount located nearby? Could the engine mount being broken loose cause hammering at that location?

[BodybyFisher]

I found this, so it is not about rocking in their cylinders per se, but I recall the pistons being redesigned with a longer skirt and teflon coating, if the old style is scuffing and hammering?

Engine Cold/Knock/Tick Noise (Replace Pistons) #03-06-01-025 - (Sep 2, 2003)

Engine Cold/Knock/Tick Noise (Replace Pistons) 2000-2002 Cadillac Eldorado

2000-2003 Cadillac DeVille, Seville

with 4.6L Engine (VINs Y, 9 -- RPOs LD8, L37)

Condition

Some customers may comment about a tick/knock noise, sometimes described as an upper engine ticking noise or a deep low knock that sounds similar to a main bearing knock. This noise is more often heard during engine start up after a long cold soak condition and may or may not diminish as the engine reaches normal operating temperature. The knock may appear to be the loudest at the exhaust manifolds on either side or both. This noise does not change when disconnecting spark plug wires, or individually disabling the fuel injectors. As a general rule, the source of this noise cannot be determined.

Cause

The source of this noise may be carbon deposits in the engine combustion chambers.

Correction

Install service piston, P/N 89017438, with rings, P/N 89017413. Follow installation instructions in the Service Manual.

[BodybyFisher]

I merged this with the prior thread on this, I dont want this spread out over many threads

[Texas Jim]

I have a question or two about this whole thread.

On this forum, we, as a whole...are a group of CADILLAC ENTHUSIASTS that drive Cadillacs because we care about them and think that they are the best car on the road.

This entire thread from the beginning has been all negative about the NorthStar engines in general and 2000 + NorthStar engines in particular.

It has now stretched to 75 posts (including mine) and I have found no information in it AT ALL, that could potentially ever help anyone.

Joe, from Midwest Cadillac Repair, claims to do one or two Cadillac NorthStar TIMESERT repairs a week but I have seen nothing from Joe offering any advice or anything else helpful to anyone on this forum.

In the time that this thread has been going... there have been "SEVERAL" people with possible headgasket issues.

There was nothing contributed to any of "THOSE" threads by the guy that does one or two TIMESERT jobs a week.

Maybe I just don't understand the purpose of this thread...but any thread that goes to five pages and 75 posts...should have "SOMETHING" useful in it.

This is almost a PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE type thread that seems to be leading absolutely nowhere.

Unless the tone of it changes into a more helpful tone, instead of just being about knocking Cadillac NorthStar engines...I will say publicly that I think it no longer serves any purpose to a group of CADILLAC ENTHUSISTS.

I vote to close this thread.