New engine build in 02 Deville, HELP

[don_k]

I have an 02 Deville VIN 9 that is suffering from the dreaded HG disease. I have aquired a new engine less the crank, rods, pistons & bearings. I plan on using the crank, rods & pistons from my current engine w/new bearings, rings and gaskets. The new engine is disassembled & I am in the process of getting it ready for installation. I have several questions I hope to get some input on:

1. Do aftermarket rings perform equal to GM parts?

2. My new heads have vin Y cams, should I swap them out for my vin 9 cams?

3. Can I have my old engine pistons coated w/the antifriction thermal insulating coatings & not have to resize my new block piston bores?

I am tentatively doing the engine assembly w/the following parts:

1. ARP head studs.

2. Cometic MLS headgaskets.

3. Clevitte bearings.

4. All new GM gaskets and seals.

Any input, comments, suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

[Cadillac Jim]

I would say that you need to change the intake cams to VIN 9 cams. In the pre-2000 Northstar, the exhaust cams were the same. I would check the FSM to make sure that the 2002 VIN Y and VIN 9 heads were otherwise identical. The reason is that your PCM will be programmed and calibrated for a VIN 9 engine -- and final drive ratio -- and may or may not work as intended with VIN Y intake cams. Even if the PCM worked OK, you might have driveability issues with the VIN Y engine and VIN 9 final drive ratio (3.71 vs. 3.11 for the VIN Y), such as the engine going "breathless" at the top of each gear and hesitating for a second or two before shifting.

[don_k]

Thanks Jims_97_ETC, that's the way I was leaning. The heads are the same, the only difference I will have is my original engine's used cams vs new cams.

[BodybyFisher]

The guru who was a Northstar Powertrain Engineer used to make a statement, when you use aftermarket parts, you are doing the validation, when you use OEM parts, the validation was done by GM engineers. I would be reluctant to use aftermarket rings

[Cadillac Jim]

Hear BodybyFisher, beware of aftermarket piston rings; also, I would use new cams and lifters for the intakes, not re-use your old cams and lifters.

I recently ran across a ZDDP oil additive for breaking in engines:

http://www.trickflow.com/partdetail.asp?part=TFS-94000&autoview=sku

It's sold online by Summit Racing:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-94000/

[don_k]

2000+ engines use cam followers not lifters, the interference contact is on a roller not /a cam rubbing on a lifter, I have installed used roller cams on engines with no negative results hence my preference to reuse my vin 9 cams; the heads, valves and other components are new. Anyone with any info about used 2000+ cams installed on different engines please respond.

[don_k]

Just ordered new GM rings, still working on answers to my piston coating questions.

[BodybyFisher]

I did some research when you originally posted.

There were some 2000 Northstars that for some reason had piston problems, I recall lots of members discussing the issue and met a couple in my travels. For some reason, GM was replacing pistons in 2000. I am not sure why they were replaced, whether is was clogging of rings or piston rocking, but I recall that the new pistons had teflon coating on the skirts

Maybe someone else can confirm my thinking on this

[BodybyFisher]

Here is the bulletin, my memory must not be too bad

Engine Cold/Knock/Tick Noise (Replace Pistons) #03-06-01-025 - (Sep 2, 2003)

Engine Cold/Knock/Tick Noise (Replace Pistons)

2000-2002 Cadillac Eldorado

2000-2003 Cadillac DeVille, Seville

with 4.6L Engine (VINs Y, 9 -- RPOs LD8, L37)

Built Prior to the Following VIN Breakpoints:

Model

VIN Breakpoint

DeVille

3U213641

Seville

3U215818

Important

Implementation of this service bulletin by "GM of Canada" dealers requires prior District Service Manager approval.

Condition

Some customers may comment about a tick/knock noise, sometimes described as an upper engine ticking noise or a deep low knock that sounds similar to a main bearing knock. This noise is more often heard during engine start up after a long cold soak condition and may or may not diminish as the engine reaches normal operating temperature. The knock may appear to be the loudest at the exhaust manifolds on either side or both. This noise does not change when disconnecting spark plug wires, or individually disabling the fuel injectors. As a general rule, the source of this noise cannot be determined.

Cause

The source of this noise may be carbon deposits in the engine combustion chambers.

Correction

Notice

Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.

Install service piston, P/N 89017438, with rings, P/N 89017413. Follow installation instructions in the Service Manual.

Parts Information

Part Number

Description

Qty

89017438

Piston, Service (includes pins and clips)

8

89017413

Rings, Piston

8

12557775

Bolts, Cylinder Head

20

Parts are currently available from GMSPO.

Warranty Information

For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

J1307

Piston, Rod and/or Rings - Replace

Use Published Labor Time

[don_k]

Update on my engine project: I have decided to use the "Y" cams in my new heads. I will install the engine with a "Y" transaxle and am having the computer reflashed w/"Y" programing. I will end up with a new "Y" engine, rebuilt "Y" trans, and reflashed "Y"computer in my DTS w/235 55 17 in wheels & tires. Should slow the RPM's down substancially @ highway speeds and hopefully improve gas mileage.

[BodybyFisher]

Update on my engine project: I have decided to use the "Y" cams in my new heads. I will install the engine with a "Y" transaxle and am having the computer reflashed w/"Y" programing. I will end up with a new "Y" engine, rebuilt "Y" trans, and reflashed "Y"computer in my DTS w/235 55 17 in wheels & tires. Should slow the RPM's down substancially @ highway speeds and hopefully improve gas mileage.

the Y cams are the 275 HP cams correct?

What did you decide to do about the pistons?

[don_k]

Yes they are the 275 hp cams, but they produce more hp and torque below some where around 4000 rpm. I owned a 2000 Deville w/"Y" engine and liked it more than the 02 w/"9" engine. I am reusing my stock 02 pistons w/new GM rings.

[BodybyFisher]

Yes they are the 275 hp cams, but they produce more hp and torque below some where around 4000 rpm. I owned a 2000 Deville w/"Y" engine and liked it more than the 02 w/"9" engine. I am reusing my stock 02 pistons w/new GM rings.

Thanks for the update, remember to keep the ring gaps 30 degrees separated from each other

[don_k]

I have decided to time-sert the new block, plus the ARP studs. Along with the MLS head gaskets, should prewty much guarantee a head gasket problem free engine.

[KHE]

I have decided to time-sert the new block, plus the ARP studs. Along with the MLS head gaskets, should prewty much guarantee a head gasket problem free engine.

If you're going to use studs, why not forget the Timeserts and use Northstar Performance's studs which are larger than the stock headbolts?

[Bruce Nunnally]

Don't forget that CaddyInfo readers get a discount at Northstar Performance of US$50 on a stud kit purchase; just remind Jake when you call [Read more]

[98eldo32v]

Don't forget that CaddyInfo readers get a discount at Northstar Performance of US$50 on a stud kit purchase; just remind Jake when you call [Read more]

Now, that's good to know......excellent!

[don_k]

I was able to buy ARP studs and a time-sert kit for less money, the time-serts do provide a larger diameter insert than the stock headbolts, but not as large as Jakes studs.

[BodybyFisher]

I was able to buy ARP studs and a time-sert kit for less money, the time-serts do provide a larger diameter insert than the stock headbolts, but not as large as Jakes studs.

I think you are referring to the BIG SERTS?

From my discussions with the people at timesert, a standard cert will hold just fine, you'd break a bolt first before it failed, more importantly is the quality of the aluminum that you find. Aluminum that has been heated to the point that changes its structure and becomes soft and sandy will only pull again. I plan to start with a standard timesert, and if the filings that I see when I drill are clean and windy looking, great, if the filings look like dust or grit, Ill try a big sert, if I drill a big sert and see dust or grit, Ill throw the block out in the garbage and find an engine.

The utmost important factor is the quality of the aluminum in the block holes for me, lets keep in mind that the original threads last quite a long time, mine went at 125,000 miles.

[CarlaValentine]

I was able to buy ARP studs and a time-sert kit for less money, the time-serts do provide a larger diameter insert than the stock headbolts, but not as large as Jakes studs.

I think you are referring to the BIG SERTS?

From my discussions with the people at timesert, a standard cert will hold just fine, you'd break a bolt first before it failed, more importantly is the quality of the aluminum that you find. Aluminum that has been heated to the point that changes its structure and becomes soft and sandy will only pull again. I plan to start with a standard timesert, and if the filings that I see when I drill are clean and windy looking, great, if the filings look like dust or grit, Ill try a big sert, if I drill a big sert and see dust or grit, Ill throw the block out in the garbage and find an engine.

The utmost important factor is the quality of the aluminum in the block holes for me, lets keep in mind that the original threads last quite a long time, mine went at 125,000 miles.

I think you have a good plan with trying the regular timeserts, then go to bigger ones if necessary. You're right about the original threads lasting a long time, as long as the engine is maintained well. Regular coolant changes and doing what you can to prevent overheating go a long way. Mine has 155,000 miles on it now and I have had no head gasket issues at all, so I would assume my threads must be holding up well.

I hope you'll keep us all updated on your progress. You too Don K.

[don_k]

Anyone have a part number for the connecting rod bolts?

[don_k]

Answered my own question on rod bolt part number, 12552947, if anyone else is interested.

[don_k]

Update on my project, I have removed the engine/trans, disassembled the engine, cleaned the pistons, rods, and crankshaft. I timeserted my new block, installed ARP studs, assembled the new block and heads w/new gaskets, bearings and seals. I purchased a remanufactured trans and am ready to install on the cradle for installation in the Deville. Am shooting for a completion date sometime next week. Will have some pictures to post soon.

[Texas Jim]

Update on my project, I have removed the engine/trans, disassembled the engine, cleaned the pistons, rods, and crankshaft. I timeserted my new block, installed ARP studs, assembled the new block and heads w/new gaskets, bearings and seals. I purchased a remanufactured trans and am ready to install on the cradle for installation in the Deville. Am shooting for a completion date sometime next week. Will have some pictures to post soon.

Very good.

You know we all love pictures.

[Ranger]

Update on my project, I have removed the engine/trans, disassembled the engine, cleaned the pistons, rods, and crankshaft. I timeserted my new block, installed ARP studs, assembled the new block and heads w/new gaskets, bearings and seals. I purchased a remanufactured trans and am ready to install on the cradle for installation in the Deville. Am shooting for a completion date sometime next week. Will have some pictures to post soon.

How can you use Timesert AND studs???????????