0303 Deville Northstar Coolant Leak , Water Pump at 65K?

[mike27513]

Hello All,

My 03 Deville DHS with 65K miles has a coolant leak that seems to come from the water pump[although could be the hose , hard to see everything].

My 01 Deville had to have the water pump replaced in 2004 at 49 K, still under warranty.

Is this a the normal failure point for these pumps?

Does Caddy have a "good will" replacement program for these ?

Any comments on your experience would be helpful. Also any do-it yourself replacement articles/instructions would be appreciated.

Thanks-

[BodybyFisher]

What do you mean by GOOD WILL replacement for these? Free? Why would they replace it for free? Just have it replaced and its an easy VERY easy replacement. Heck it lasted 65,000 miles, pretty good if you ask me.

You will need a new pump, I prefer AC DELCO, go to www.gmotors.com or www.rockauto.com

You will need a new cover seal

You will need a NS water pump socket

While you are there, I would replace the thermostat and thermostat seal

While you are there, I would replace the water pump belt and inspect the tensioner

Here are two threads that I created when I replaced my water pump there are some photos in the first

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13525

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13341

[BodybyFisher]

Here is another link, this one is better, and the one I was looking for

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19074

[mike27513]

Thanks for the info and links BodybyFisher. Very much appreciated!

At what mileage did your water pump fail?

49K and 65K seems to be a low mileage for water pump failures for me for '01,'03 DeVilles .

In addition I have owned Chevy's , Pontiac's , Lincoln's , and Ford's from 1990's on- all of them got well over 100K miles before water pumps needed to be replaced.

Since all newer GM cars get 100K warranties, I guess Cadillac doesn't mind replacing A LOT of water pumps before 100K miles now. The Northstar is an excellent engine in spite of this.

These are my favorite vehicles. I traded in an 03Lincoln Towncar for one . The Deville's are much better luxury cars.

[BodybyFisher]

Thanks for the info and links BodybyFisher. Very much appreciated!

At what mileage did your water pump fail?

49K and 65K seems to be a low mileage for water pump failures for me for '01,'03 DeVilles .

In addition I have owned Chevy's , Pontiac's , Lincoln's , and Ford's from 1990's on- all of them got well over 100K miles before water pumps needed to be replaced.

Since all newer GM cars get 100K warranties, I guess Cadillac doesn't mind replacing A LOT of water pumps before 100K miles now. The Northstar is an excellent engine in spite of this.

These are my favorite vehicles. I traded in an 03Lincoln Towncar for one . The Deville's are much better luxury cars.

Before I bought my car it was replaced in the 45K range. I would say that 45 to 60K is normal. I don't think the Water Pump is covered to 100K, just the POWERTRAIN. It is important to know the history of the car also however, if green coolant is used at any point, it will damage the seal quicker than dexcool.

I dont know if you saw it but I posted a new link to my most recent water pump replacement.

Lets see what others say about the mileage they have gotten on their NS water pumps.. The last one I replaced was STILL good at 60K, just the body seal needed replacing.

Flushing the coolant on time is very important along with using OEM pumps

[mike27513]

Thanks again BodybyFisher!

I did see both link Postings, very good pics of water pump /replacement.

I will still disagree on water pump life however.

Also since I am looking to by a new DTS, the 100K warranty does cover the water pump on new vehicles so if this a common failure, Caddy will be doing a lot of warranty repairs.

From the Caddy site for DTS:

Covered for five years/100,000 miles

General Motors will warrant each 2009 model year passenger car, light duty truck or van's powertrain for 5 years, or 100,000 miles/160,000 km (excluding Saab) - whichever comes first - with no deductible. See your Cadillac dealer for terms and conditions. This warranty is for GM vehicles registered in the U.S.A. and is effective from the original in-service date of the vehicle for warrantable repairs that are required as a result of defects due to material and/or workmanship to the Powertrain components as listed below.

Engine

Cylinder head, block, timing gears, timing chain, timing cover, oil pump/oil pump housing, OHC carriers, valve covers, oil pan, seals, gaskets, turbocharger, supercharger and all internal lubricated parts as well as manifolds, flywheel, water pump, harmonic balancer and engine mount. Timing belts are covered until the first scheduled maintenance interval.

[BodybyFisher]

Well that is good to know that it will be covered. To be honest, its a cake walk repair for them, my guess is that its an hour of labor. Now that they have extended the warranty to 100K maybe they will harden the water pump so that it does last 100K.

I am sure that others will chime in on their water pump failure experience.

I think my 96 had a 50K mile warranty, and I THINK that it made that.. Ill check the maintenance history.. It was replaced with a NON AC DELCO aftermarket replacement.

[Ranger]

I'd say that is a little premature on the mileage. Sold my '97 with 107K on it and it still had the original pump. Don't know what it has on it now, but I think it is still original.

Engine

Cylinder head, block, timing gears, timing chain, timing cover, oil pump/oil pump housing, OHC carriers, valve covers, oil pan, seals, gaskets, turbocharger, supercharger and all internal lubricated parts as well as manifolds, flywheel, water pump, harmonic balancer and engine mount. Timing belts are covered until the first scheduled maintenance interval.

Very interesting because the Northstar uses timing chains, not belts.

[Texas Jim]

I'd say that is a little premature on the mileage. Sold my '97 with 107K on it and it still had the original pump. Don't know what it has on it now, but I think it is still original.

Engine

Cylinder head, block, timing gears, timing chain, timing cover, oil pump/oil pump housing, OHC carriers, valve covers, oil pan, seals, gaskets, turbocharger, supercharger and all internal lubricated parts as well as manifolds, flywheel, water pump, harmonic balancer and engine mount. Timing belts are covered until the first scheduled maintenance interval.

Very interesting because the Northstar uses timing chains, not belts.

Ranger,

I think that is just boilerplate language covering the other ones that DO have timing belts.

The timing chains on the Northstar are covered in the preceding line..."all internal lubricated parts"

[Ranger]

Ah, I see. Thanks Jim.

[air3dlc]

200 miles from home and 100 miles from destination the temp gage soars and and message center spews forth messages. Very long story made short--water pump bearing locked up, turning belt into dust and melting the pump drive pulley on the camshaft and the tensioner pulley. This occurred about 4-3-09 and I had approx 101K miles. Bought car in June 2003 with 46K. To my knowledge, this was original pump. There was no advance warning to prepare for total catastrophic pump failure. Glad to know that the NorthStar was designed to be driven without coolant for 50 miles (found out after the fact). We drove 10-15 miles in spurts, letting the engine cool down, to get off of the interstate to civilization. The temp. was topping out and the pucker factor was high. Went on 2000 mile trip two weeks later and all was normal.

[KHE]

The Northstar water pump is about the easiest pump I have ever changed. You need the special tool to remove and install the pump though. And it is CLOCKWISE to remove the pump and COUNTERCLOCKWISE to install the pump. Just the opposite of what you'd expect.

The water pump seal on my '96 Seville started to weep coolant at 67,000 miles so I replaced the pump. I thought that was a premature failure personally. My '97 Seville STS has 150,000 on the original pump.

[ponyboyt]

The Northstar water pump is about the easiest pump I have ever changed. You need the special tool to remove and install the pump though. And it is CLOCKWISE to remove the pump and COUNTERCLOCKWISE to install the pump. Just the opposite of what you'd expect.

The water pump seal on my '96 Seville started to weep coolant at 67,000 miles so I replaced the pump. I thought that was a premature failure personally. My '97 Seville STS has 150,000 on the original pump.

I have what LOOKS like all the service records for my car. I am the 3rd owner. I dont see a water pump replacement anywhere. Car has 311,000 km's now..... It uses oil and coolant. It used a LOT of oil and coolant before i replaced the rad (oil cooler was leaking at the top line). Uses about a liter of oil every 2000-3000km's, i have to top the half full resevoir about every 2000 km's but i still need to monitor that since i've only put 3500 on since i changed the rad. Compression test by GM dealer says its not a head gasket. There is no *visible* leak, but it took 25k to figure out my rad was leaking cause it never dripped sitting still.....

[Brett Bolin]

My water pump just went out @ 115,000miles on a 96 Deville. I've never had a vehicle go out that low before. Never heard of one failing less than 50,000.

[Brett Bolin]

The Northstar water pump is about the easiest pump I have ever changed.

Is it really that easy? Or are you a mechanic? I'm curious because mine just went out and I'm a serious cheapskate and don't mind doing the easier fixes! BUT I heard it was tricky so I'm trying to research it as much as possible.

[rockfangd]

to be honest out of all the cadillacs i have worked on up to 2004, I have only had to change 2 waterpumps. and one was not even a pump failure, it was oxidation between the pump and housing at the o-ring.

pretty easy to change.

[Texas Jim]

Mine has over 113,000 miles... still the original water pump...

[ott4deville]

I wanted to add some water pump history info here on my 04' Deville Northstar motor..

I have a warranty so when I located a bearing noise coming from the area of the water pump.

I took it to my mechcanic who confirmed the pump going out and he also stated the tensioner had possibly created the premature wear of the pump failing due to the belt moving creating a "front to back uneven stress on the pump itself.

Purchased my Deville with 54K... Replaced the water pump and tensioner pulley and belt all at once with65K..

also upper inake seals as well. He did replace the coolant with the "green stuff".. due anyways.

[KHE]

I wanted to add some water pump history info here on my 04' Deville Northstar motor..

I have a warranty so when I located a bearing noise coming from the area of the water pump.

I took it to my mechcanic who confirmed the pump going out and he also stated the tensioner had possibly created the premature wear of the pump failing due to the belt moving creating a "front to back uneven stress on the pump itself.

Purchased my Deville with 54K... Replaced the water pump and tensioner pulley and belt all at once with65K..

also upper inake seals as well. He did replace the coolant with the "green stuff".. due anyways.

Unless the tensioner had too heavy of a spring, the mechanic's theory doesn't make me much sense as they would all be going bad prematurely.

Why would you put green coolant in your system? The water pump won't last as long with silicated coolant as the silicates are abrasive and will wear at the waterpump seal.