Water Pump/Coolant Crossover

[BodybyFisher]

OK, I am stumped. The coolant crossover is a BEAR to get off. I have the throttle body off. The short coolant pipe out that connects to the water pump. Water pump cover containing the thermostat is out. I have access to six of the eight bolts and the remaining two are impossible to get at. The hard to get at bolts are the two lower rear bolts near the firewall. The main electrical wiring harness is in the way and I need to move it as KHE recommended. But that conduit is connected to everything including the front O2 sensor, three cooling fan relays, fuse modules, and possibly the oil pressure switch and oil level sensor. NOW I know why this job is so hard and so expensive.

However, while I plan to move the main wiring harness back toward the firewall to get it out of the way of the two rear bolts for the crossover, I am NOT sure if there is enough room between the bolts and the tranny to get the wiring harness free, has anyone been able to free up the wiring harness all the way to the firewall.

I plan to buy a LONG 13MM 12 point flex-head ratcheting wrench to get at these bolts easier

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?...UseBVCookie=Yes

[BodybyFisher]

PS, the good thing about removing the electrical conduit, is that I had already planned on replacing my oil level sensor and oil pressure switch so I will be in the area anyway..

Does anyone think it is weird that my oil level sensor, oil pressure switch and O2 Sensor are bad at the same time?

The good thing about dismantling the driver side of the engine is that I can replace virtually everything now, seals, gaskets, heater pipes, etc..

I am beginning to think that it would be foolish for me to sell this car now that I have basically rebuilt it...

[Ranger]

Does anyone think it is weird that my oil level sensor, oil pressure switch and O2 Sensor are bad at the same time?

Yeah, I do. That is one hell of a coincidence.

[joeb]

i am right there with you. i am pulling my motor and took out the top bolts for the crossover and agree the rear lower bolts are bad. i think the trans shifter module is in the way too. and depending on how long the bolts are, they might even hit the shifter module. i think i heard that it is easier to pull the motor and than take off the crossover.

[BodybyFisher]

i am right there with you. i am pulling my motor and took out the top bolts for the crossover and agree the rear lower bolts are bad. i think the trans shifter module is in the way too. and depending on how long the bolts are, they might even hit the shifter module. i think i heard that it is easier to pull the motor and than take off the crossover.

I agree with the shifter module clearance, I am reluctant to pull it until I read the R&R to see if there is an adjustment on reinstall. I am sort of relieved that someone else has seen the conditions and confirmed the difficulty I am having. Thanks. I of course will post my experience with this, let me know how you handle it. KHE has not posted yet, and I know he removed his, and he did comment on how difficult it was, I am interesting in his thoughts. Kevin is the man, after his timesert job and now seeing this, my hat is off to him.... I don't think I have ever heard him complain, about the difficulty of any of these jobs!

[BodybyFisher]

Well the day was not a total loss, I cleaned and polished my throttle body with my dremel tool. This is the engine side of the throttle body it was caked with black gooey carbon before I started. GM upper engine cleaner and spray carb cleaner cleaned it right up. I am replacing the gaskets also

Here is my engine so far, UGH...

[BodybyFisher]

Does anyone think it is weird that my oil level sensor, oil pressure switch and O2 Sensor are bad at the same time?

Yeah, I do. That is one hell of a coincidence.

It is odd, because my oil level and oil pressure switch went out together in the dead of the cold winter. The O2 sensor just started acting up. When I removed it the tip was burned black so maybe it is shot, hey its 96K miles.. But I must stay this, everything in the area was wet from coolant. After reading the thread that you linked me to, I am pretty sure my crossover gaskets are the cause. Thanks

[KHE]

OK, I am stumped. The coolant crossover is a BEAR to get off. I have the throttle body off. The short coolant pipe out that connects to the water pump. Water pump cover containing the thermostat is out. I have access to six of the eight bolts and the remaining two are impossible to get at. The hard to get at bolts are the two lower rear bolts near the firewall. The main electrical wiring harness is in the way and I need to move it as KHE recommended. But that conduit is connected to everything including the front O2 sensor, three cooling fan relays, fuse modules, and possibly the oil pressure switch and oil level sensor. NOW I know why this job is so hard and so expensive.

However, while I plan to move the main wiring harness back toward the firewall to get it out of the way of the two rear bolts for the crossover, I am NOT sure if there is enough room between the bolts and the tranny to get the wiring harness free, has anyone been able to free up the wiring harness all the way to the firewall.

I plan to buy a LONG 13MM 12 point flex-head ratcheting wrench to get at these bolts easier

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?...UseBVCookie=Yes

Unplug the round, grey connector on the wiring harness - I believe it is near the ABS unit but it has been over a year since I did the job. Once that is unplugged, you should be able to move the wiring harness out of the way and access to the bolts should be a lot easier. I discovered the plug after the fact as it was not mentioned in the service manual...

PS, the good thing about removing the electrical conduit, is that I had already planned on replacing my oil level sensor and oil pressure switch so I will be in the area anyway..

Does anyone think it is weird that my oil level sensor, oil pressure switch and O2 Sensor are bad at the same time?

The good thing about dismantling the driver side of the engine is that I can replace virtually everything now, seals, gaskets, heater pipes, etc..

I am beginning to think that it would be foolish for me to sell this car now that I have basically rebuilt it...

I agree - it should be like new after you're all done with the work. You might want to drive it for a few more years.

i am right there with you. i am pulling my motor and took out the top bolts for the crossover and agree the rear lower bolts are bad. i think the trans shifter module is in the way too. and depending on how long the bolts are, they might even hit the shifter module. i think i heard that it is easier to pull the motor and than take off the crossover.

I agree with the shifter module clearance, I am reluctant to pull it until I read the R&R to see if there is an adjustment on reinstall. I am sort of relieved that someone else has seen the conditions and confirmed the difficulty I am having. Thanks. I of course will post my experience with this, let me know how you handle it. KHE has not posted yet, and I know he removed his, and he did comment on how difficult it was, I am interesting in his thoughts. Kevin is the man, after his timesert job and now seeing this, my hat is off to him.... I don't think I have ever heard him complain, about the difficulty of any of these jobs!

I had to remove the shift cables and the gear indicator switch. There is an adjustment procedure in the shop manual but it requires one of those expensive Kent-Moore tools which I didn't have. I just marked the relative location of the components with a paint marker and a scribe and had no problems upon re-assembly. I did come up with several new cuss-word combinations while working on that crossover.

[BodybyFisher]

I feel better now Kevin, thanks. Thanks for the information on the gear indicator switch, I will mark it good, Thanks, Mike

Can I glue the new gaskets in place with GM Assembly Adhesive?

[KHE]

I feel better now Kevin, thanks. Thanks for the information on the gear indicator switch, I will mark it good, Thanks, Mike

Can I glue the new gaskets in place with GM Assembly Adhesive?

I wouldn't use any adheshive on the gaskets - once you start the bolts, they will be retained. The last thing you want is to have to repeat this job...

By the way, the electricical connector that is not mentioned in the service manual is closer to the trans. dipstick than the ABS unit. You still might need to disconnect the harness at other point(s) to gain access to the bolts.

[BodybyFisher]

I feel better now Kevin, thanks. Thanks for the information on the gear indicator switch, I will mark it good, Thanks, Mike

Can I glue the new gaskets in place with GM Assembly Adhesive?

I wouldn't use any adheshive on the gaskets - once you start the bolts, they will be retained. The last thing you want is to have to repeat this job...

By the way, the electricical connector that is not mentioned in the service manual is closer to the trans. dipstick than the ABS unit. You still might need to disconnect the harness at other point(s) to gain access to the bolts.

Thanks Kevin, a GM tech also stated not to use adhesive on the gaskets, see my thread here http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/north...tml#post1097822

Now that I understand that I must detach the wiring harness and move it, I will work toward that end now and I will end up with more room to get at those bolts.. Thanks, Mike

[BigCat83]

The only way to get at the bottom two bolts on the right side of the crossover (looking at it over the fender) is with a 13mm open end wrench and a tremendous amount of patience. Unscrew the one on the left first (if you unscrew the one on the right first it blocks access to the other).

I'd buy all new gaskets too. I know you're supposed to be able to reuse the originals, but the thing is they stick to the block and even if you're carefull the silicone sealing ring will tear.

And you do have to disconnect and move that entire harness. That's really not too much of a PIA. And when you disconnect that switch from the trans. shifter be very carefull on disassembly/reassembly (line up the screw heads with the marks made in the crud when removed) and you won't have to adjust anythhing.

Keep us posted.

[BodybyFisher]

The harness involves the oil pressure switch and the fuse/relay center. I really don't mind that it involves the fuse/relay center, mine is really dirty and I plan to spray the area and sockets with electrical contact cleaner after pulling the fuses (after taking a digital photo of them so I know how it goes back together ans where the fuses go! )

[BodybyFisher]

I ordered more parts yesterday, look at the overnight delivery...ouch,

UPPER HOSE (25700766) - $27.85

THROTTLE BODY GASKET (3542601) - $3.29

HTR.PIPE (25671310) - $34.63

HTR.PIPE (25688468) - $30.59

AXLE SEAL (8677554) - $4.50

AXLE SEAL (8679679) - $9.38

EGR GASKET (3522442) - $4.34

FREIGHT (NEXT DAY UPS) - $55.00

Total Cost $169.58

[WarrenJ]

Mike.

I'm nearby. If you need an EMERGENCY BEER DELIVERY, lemme know.

WOW! What a job!

Regards,

Warren

P.S. I think you have my cell phone #.

[BodybyFisher]

I might take you up on that, Warren. Im going to have to keep this sum B after all this work......

[BodybyFisher]

I should have my head examined. I am in the process of doing the crossover gaskets, heater pipes, front O2 sensor and ISS Speed Sensor... So far I have removed almost everything from the engine compartment, this is SICK..... I will post photos later. I keep saying to myself, I hope I can get it back together......

I got my crossover out finally and the gaskets are crushed and there is evidence of leakage and the gaskets look damaged. In addition my heater pipes were rusted badly but I don't believe they were rusted through.

The Northstar is amazing the way it is engineered!

[joeb]

did you buy a flex ratchet wrench? i went to my local harbor freight and 9 out of 10 ratchets they sell are junk. they had 1 nice set of mm wrenches but they were standard length and i think i would want longer. its easy to keep walking by the caddy without working on it. i seem to find lots of other stuff to do.

[BodybyFisher]

did you buy a flex ratchet wrench? i went to my local harbor freight and 9 out of 10 ratchets they sell are junk. they had 1 nice set of mm wrenches but they were standard length and i think i would want longer. its easy to keep walking by the caddy without working on it. i seem to find lots of other stuff to do.

Actually, once I got the Neutral Switch out of the way, there was plenty of room to get at the bolts. I was afraid to move it until Kevin (KHE) said to mark it and remove it. That freed up a lot of room and I used a standard ratcheting wrench.

I tend to buy Craftsman wrenches, especially since they re-designed their wrenches with rounded edges, they used to have sharp edges. I have been wearing gloves more with this engine due to the tight quarters. I was just thinking today how nice it would be to have longer wrenches. During this job as a matter of fact, I have been making notes as to what tools I need to buy. I need to buy a good set of 1/4" metric standard depth, deep sockets and extensions. The 1/4" set comes in handy. I was thinking how, its important to have an extensive set of tools when you work on this engine. Overall, while I have run into a couple a problems, and its going slow, I am cleaning everything, preparing the parts for re-assembly and I have learned a lot. I pulled every fuse and relay out of the relay center and cleaned the contacts and fuses with electrical contact cleaner, it was a mess.

Here is one of the lower gaskets, the inner plastic on all of the gaskets is damaged, cracked and missing. I believe this gasket was leaking due to the dark, melted and burned look of the orange colored gasket, this is probably the source of the coolant smell I was getting. Oddly my coolant usage was negligible.

This doesn't look too good either, this is an upper gasket.

[WarrenJ]

Mike,

That sounds great! Glad to hear of your progress!

It's likely just as well I didn't have to make the EMERGENCY BEER RUN for you.

I drank it myself! Well . . . . I had some help. But we *DID* think of you.

Regards,

Warren

[Ranger]

I do not ency you Mike. My back is aching just thinking about it. Think I'll follow Warrens lead and have a Martini in your honor.

[WarrenJ]

My back is aching just thinking about it. Think I'll follow Warrens lead and have a Martini in your honor.

One olive or two?

[Ranger]

Sadly, I am out of olives , but it would be two.

[WarrenJ]

Sadly, I am out of olives , but it would be two.

Well, if you're out of them, it might as well have been three. No?

--Warren

[BodybyFisher]

Thanks guys for the support, I made good progress today. I am getting up early tomorrow and starting again, I just cleaned and organized my tools. I have about 25 large zip lock baggies with related nuts, bolts, brackets and components in them, so that I don't loose my mind figuring out where everything goes on reassembly...

My fuel rail tips were amazingly clean. I vacuumed and used brake clean everywhere. The water pump/coolant crossover has EGR ports in it and I opened the plugs and cleaned it with a wire brush. Also took the purge nut off and cleaned the hole. I found a bolt for the WP guard that I lost two years ago behind the crossover, yeah...

Here is a close-up of an upper gasket, I think this is where my leak was coming from:

I don't think these heater pipes were leaking, I poked them with a awl. Most of you know that there is NO WAY, I would leave these heater pipes in. I would be sweating bullets next time I was in 100 degree heat, in traffic running 230 to 240 degree temps..