Gyounker Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 Went to the local gas station and filled the tank. Turned the key to leave and got all the dash info but the starter did not make a sound. Tow truck tried to jump it but still nothing. Could anything else cause me to have plenty of battery but no response from the starter---not even a click? Thanks in advance for any ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 Corroded cables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyounker Posted July 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 Cables could be the problem. We have had rain here everyday for the past 3 weeks. I did tighten the battery connections to make sure that was not the problem. All the electrics work just nothing from the starter. I thought their might be some other electrical problem like a relay or module or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 Try putting it in NEUTRAL. Could be the PARK/NEUTRAL safety switch. Also, have the hood up... have soneone stand by the fender and see if they hear a click when you try to start it. May be a bad starter solenoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 I also think that is a bad starter solenoid OR the contacts on the starter. Any codes or info on the DIC? Starting disabled or something like that? Could be a broken wiring inside ignition lock cylinder as well. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 Unless I missed it, you did not specify which car, the 92 or the 98? That said, besides tightening the battery connections did you take them off to see if there was corrosion. On the Northstar, there is a separate battery cable bundled at the positive terminal for the starter, if there is corrosion stopping the starter cable from drawing power you will have partial power. You must take apart the positive cable on a NS to clean inside the RED insulator. If there is unseen corrosion in that joint tightening it might not matter. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 The original battery cable has three cables in a sandwich on the positive terminal. Be sure and pry them out of the red connector and clean between them. Once I had my battery changed at an auto maintenance chain. When I picked it up they were talking about changing the starter on a Northstar, as an abstract job, without mentioning my car specifically. On the weekend I went over the car and found that they did NOT clean the cable. There was about a millimeter of green crystalline junk between the second and third cable, just about guaranteeing that I would eventually have trouble with the starter getting volts. I think that they noticed that the starter seemed a little flaky but didn't know why. I cleaned it well and haven't had trouble since -- except that the battery didn't last. I changed the cable later as a weekend job and found that the new replacement cables seal the positive terminal better and seem to have all three cables crimped into one connector. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyounker Posted July 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 I have made arrangements to get the car to the shop tomorrow. I tried to start the car in neutral but still nothing. I seem to have plenty of battery. With the door open I can hear a faint clicking sound and I hope it is the solenoid and not starter failure. At least the starter is on the outside of this engine. Thanks for all the great ideas---I will know more tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 I have made arrangements to get the car to the shop tomorrow. I tried to start the car in neutral but still nothing. I seem to have plenty of battery. With the door open I can hear a faint clicking sound and I hope it is the solenoid and not starter failure. At least the starter is on the outside of this engine. Thanks for all the great ideas---I will know more tomorrow. There was the CLUE, the starter is on the OUTSIDE, he is talking about the 92 Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyounker Posted July 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Actually the topic title is 92-Eldorado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 The faint clicking tells me that it is likely the battery cable. That's because, if the solenoid got full juice, the click would not be faint. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Actually the topic title is 92-Eldorado. How is that for a big miss.... sorry about that... In the time I had my 91 4.9 I never had a hard time starting it. It is possible that you have a bad solenoid, you can check that by jumping the solenoid, from the 12V terminal to the starter terminal on the solenoid, if it turns its your solenoid. It seems your key is ok as you are getting clicking... Good Luck tomorrow Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Actually the topic title is 92-Eldorado. How is that for a big miss.... sorry about that... In the time I had my 91 4.9 I never had a hard time starting it. It is possible that you have a bad solenoid, you can check that by jumping the solenoid, from the 12V terminal to the starter terminal on the solenoid, if it turns its your solenoid. It seems your key is ok as you are getting clicking... Good Luck tomorrow Mike, I was about to suggest jumping to eliminate solenoid, but that's is a really dangerous jump since intale manifold is close to the jumper and may melt down the insulation with all the consequences.... The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Actually the topic title is 92-Eldorado. How is that for a big miss.... sorry about that... In the time I had my 91 4.9 I never had a hard time starting it. It is possible that you have a bad solenoid, you can check that by jumping the solenoid, from the 12V terminal to the starter terminal on the solenoid, if it turns its your solenoid. It seems your key is ok as you are getting clicking... Good Luck tomorrow Mike, I was about to suggest jumping to eliminate solenoid, but that's is a really dangerous jump since intale manifold is close to the jumper and may melt down the insulation with all the consequences.... I agree its not easy, but its a good diagnostic method, I have used needle nose pliers to do this test, the starter will not engage, it will just spin, if I am not mistaken Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Here is a so so view of the starter on the 4.9 Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmendo Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 If I were you, before I would do anything else, I would pop the hood and have someone turn the key and listen for where the clicking is coming from ... If, it is at the battery, then think cable and if not, then suspect where the clicking is coming from ... and I have said it before, and I will say it again ... A piece of PVC pipe, makes for a very good stethoscope, for pin pointing sound, on a car or whatever ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyounker Posted July 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Great view of the 4.9 engine. My mechanic said the cable and starter system are perfect. The problem is in the key security system. Inside the dash is a module(?) hidden, that operates the system and a frayed wire, etc., can cause the system to cut out the current to the starter. He is now fixing the problem and hopes he can get it starting today. He did mention that the problem will be solved "if the car starts". He mentioned that he has fixed this same problem several times before and is not uncommon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyounker Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 When the mechanic started the car it started to go backwards and he stopped it immediately. Here the problem was with a worn bushing on the transmission cable and the car was always in reverse and moving the shifter had no affect. He is now replacing the bushing which will change the gears and the car will shift into park and can be started. The craziest things can happen. Like he said. it will be fixed when tested and proven to be fixed. This is a new one for the books. I hope to get the car back today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 When the mechanic started the car it started to go backwards and he stopped it immediately. Here the problem was with a worn bushing on the transmission cable and the car was always in reverse and moving the shifter had no affect. He is now replacing the bushing which will change the gears and the car will shift into park and can be started. The craziest things can happen. Like he said. it will be fixed when tested and proven to be fixed. This is a new one for the books. I hope to get the car back today. Interesting problem, good for your mechanic. I am surprised that you could not move the shifter very slowly through the gears even between gears to determine that you had a neutral safety issue.. Texas Jim gets a GOLD STAR for this one.. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyounker Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 I am trying to arrange the problem in my thoughts. We had to push the car to align it for the tow truck and later to park it in its place. If it was in reverse would it not have been hard to push? The mechanic said the trans was in reverse and the shifter was not working from inside the car. Still a little confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyounker Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Interesting my 98 Eldorado was mentioned. It is sitting dormant with a bad head gasket. The mechanic at the Cadillac dealership said he had 24 Northstar engines to replace. I love the car but $3000.00 to do the repair/replacement is half the car value----and I still could repeat the problem with the new engine. What to do---replace or junk??? I just want my 92 back to get on the road---for today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95SevilleSLS Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 I had the same problem with my 90 deville which I would think has the same starter. Every other time it would turn over it would have a slow spot in the starter. Eventually one day I came to start it and...nothing. I took the starter off and there was a bad part in the armutuer(spelling?). So when I would be starting it, it would it that bad spot and slow down until it hit the next spot that was good. Then one day I just happened to land on the spot that was bad and it wouldn't crank over. Had all the power in the world, but no crank. Try putting your lights on and cranking, see if they dim. -Dusty- - 02 Seville STS, white diamond - 93 Sixty Special, Tan with vinyl top - 79 Coupe DeVille, Tan with Tan top - 06 GMC Sierra Z71, Black - 92 Silverado C1500, black and grey - 83 Chevy K10 Silverado, Black and Grey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Interesting my 98 Eldorado was mentioned. It is sitting dormant with a bad head gasket. The mechanic at the Cadillac dealership said he had 24 Northstar engines to replace. I love the car but $3000.00 to do the repair/replacement is half the car value----and I still could repeat the problem with the new engine. What to do---replace or junk??? I just want my 92 back to get on the road---for today. From the posts here, head gasket failures begin to appear in cars about seven years old, mostly in those that never had their coolant changed. They are rare in engines five years old or less, or in cars that have their coolant changed regularly. A good Timesert job should hold as well, or better, particularly since you will be sensitized to the need to keep the coolant fresh. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 I am trying to arrange the problem in my thoughts. We had to push the car to align it for the tow truck and later to park it in its place. If it was in reverse would it not have been hard to push? The mechanic said the trans was in reverse and the shifter was not working from inside the car. Still a little confusing. An automatic will act like neutral in all gears when the engine is off, the clutches are applied hydraulicaly. That is possible what your mechanic said. NOW I understand why what Texas Jim suggested did not work in your situation, you THOUGHT you were in P N R D 2 1 but you were in REVERSE, that is entirely possible. I think you were feeling the detent positions in your shifter but the cable was detached from the transmission, see this picture, I think this is where your problem was, this is from a 91 Seville 4.9 service manual Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyounker Posted July 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 On the 92 my mechanic is making a bracket to repair the problem in lieu of replacing the entire cable. On the 98 I replaced the radiator 12 months ago and it has new approved coolant. The manual says the engine can lose all the coolant and be safely driven about 50 miles for repairs. That never happened and I am looking at about a $3000.00 mess. I have found out from several mechanics that this problem is common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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