Sound

[thaghost87]

The Bose system uses Acoustic Wave speakers in the doors. The Bose Acoustic Wave system is a unique speaker that has a piston that operates across the acoustic spectrum, from woofer to tweeter. The woofer action is made possible by using very long travel with the piston in a cylinder that flares to a horn shape to get the bass into the room or car. Tweeter action is made possible by very light construction of the piston. The impedance and resistance of the voice coil is very low, under 1 Ohm, so the amplifier is positioned at the speaker to eliminate the speaker wires and their resistance. Traditional wide-range speakers, such as those that use whizzer cones and such, have intermodulation distortion caused by cone movement for bass causing Doppler effect for treble, but the Acoustic Wave speakers avoid this by generating the mid-range and treble without distortion at the piston surface, and coupling all frequencies to the air through the horn.

These speakers use the same configuration that are used in the compact wide-range speakers for the Bose Wave radios and their Acoustic Wave sound systems. As far as I know, there is no other technology that can provide really good bass without a large enclosure behind the speaker, which is not possible in the doors and would occupy more trunk space than a convertible top.

If you have poor bass from a Bose system, there's something wrong. I would look into it. If I turn mine up I can see the inside rearview mirror vibrate.

If you want hundreds of watts of bass, then you need more power and bigger speakers... and a bigger battery and alternator.

never was a big fan of Bose, dont get me wrong they sound great(you make them sound better when you explain it) though. If i have the speakers you describe then maybe something is wrong, and yea my rear view mirror rattles a lil also, but its the actual sound of the bass thats not to my standards. My subs would be that powerful, and with every system i do i use atleast one Frad cap. to help the batt and alternator. I dont goto the extreme watts where i would need a performance alt. Ive used a set of MB Quart's reference components before and they deliver some of the best mid's and highs ive heard without spending a million dollars. the bose system is nice i just dont find it to be that impressive.

[BodybyFisher]

I understand this, because young guys are looking for bass that goes into the 20 hz range with authority. When I was your age, we preferred clear and crisp high frequency..

The BOSE system while impressive for most music, is not capable of SERIOUSLY low bass that you guys are looking for. Since bass is NOT directional, I would be curious how the existing BOSE system sounds modified with two 12" subs in the trunk as previously described. Do you guys think that would satisfy your bass need?

[thaghost87]

I understand this, because young guys are looking for bass that goes into the 20 hz range with authority. When I was your age, we preferred clear and crisp high frequency..

The BOSE system while impressive for most music, is not capable of SERIOUSLY low bass that you guys are looking for. Since bass is NOT directional, I would be curious how the existing BOSE system sounds modified with two 12" subs in the trunk as previously described. Do you guys think that would satisfy your bass need?

your right, but if you dont have crisp highs to match a lot of base then the music will sound horrible!! which is what a lot of people do today. they add subs,turn them all the way up, and then cant really hear the words, or a snare drum tap in a song.

Are you saying two of the subs that are currently in the rear deck? It depends on how they sound when you put them into a sealed box. they maybe only made for free air use. But if you put two 12' sub(lets saw mtx 7500) then that would be nice, because when you do that you could take most of the low's out of the cabin of the car, relieving stress on the speakers which would improve your mids. since the highs are handled by tweeters then they would most likely stay the same. But to do that you would have to be able to remove the bass from the cabin speakers and im not sure if you can do that with the factory radio without affecting the rear sub that you would hook up.

[Ed Hall]

As far as I know, there is no other technology that can provide really good bass without a large enclosure behind the speaker, which is not possible in the doors and would occupy more trunk space than a convertible top.

If you have poor bass from a Bose system, there's something wrong. I would look into it. If I turn mine up I can see the inside rearview mirror vibrate.

If you want hundreds of watts of bass, then you need more power and bigger speakers... and a bigger battery and alternator.

never was a big fan of Bose, dont get me wrong they sound great(you make them sound better when you explain it) though. If i have the speakers you describe then maybe something is wrong, and yea my rear view mirror rattles a lil also, but its the actual sound of the bass thats not to my standards. My subs would be that powerful, and with every system i do i use atleast one Frad cap. to help the batt and alternator. I dont goto the extreme watts where i would need a performance alt. Ive used a set of MB Quart's reference components before and they deliver some of the best mid's and highs ive heard without spending a million dollars. the bose system is nice i just dont find it to be that impressive.

The other technology that I know that produces excellent bass in a small enclosure is by a company called Sunfire. The link below shows their 13 in. speaker enclosure that produces a bass frequency response down to 16 hz. I don't know of any Bose products that goes down this low.

http://www.sunfire.com/TrueSubwooferEQSigPR.htm

I also like MB Quart's reference speakers. I installed these speakers in my Cadillac and IMO they sound better than even the new systems that Boss is installing in newer cars. Boss does a good job at marketing and satisfying the mass public but it leaves something to be desired for true audiophiles.

[BodybyFisher]

I understand this, because young guys are looking for bass that goes into the 20 hz range with authority. When I was your age, we preferred clear and crisp high frequency..

The BOSE system while impressive for most music, is not capable of SERIOUSLY low bass that you guys are looking for. Since bass is NOT directional, I would be curious how the existing BOSE system sounds modified with two 12" subs in the trunk as previously described. Do you guys think that would satisfy your bass need?

your right, but if you dont have crisp highs to match a lot of base then the music will sound horrible!! which is what a lot of people do today. they add subs,turn them all the way up, and then cant really hear the words, or a snare drum tap in a song.

Are you saying two of the subs that are currently in the rear deck? It depends on how they sound when you put them into a sealed box. they maybe only made for free air use. But if you put two 12' sub(lets saw mtx 7500) then that would be nice, because when you do that you could take most of the low's out of the cabin of the car, relieving stress on the speakers which would improve your mids. since the highs are handled by tweeters then they would most likely stay the same. But to do that you would have to be able to remove the bass from the cabin speakers and im not sure if you can do that with the factory radio without affecting the rear sub that you would hook up.

Look at post #15, that is what I am talking about, detaching the existing sub, and connecting a new single of dual sub ported box facing the back seat with its own amp. That should improve the bass greatly and you could adjust the bass to your liking, the only issue would be whether or not the highs we adequate for you..

[thaghost87]

As far as I know, there is no other technology that can provide really good bass without a large enclosure behind the speaker, which is not possible in the doors and would occupy more trunk space than a convertible top.

If you have poor bass from a Bose system, there's something wrong. I would look into it. If I turn mine up I can see the inside rearview mirror vibrate.

If you want hundreds of watts of bass, then you need more power and bigger speakers... and a bigger battery and alternator.

never was a big fan of Bose, dont get me wrong they sound great(you make them sound better when you explain it) though. If i have the speakers you describe then maybe something is wrong, and yea my rear view mirror rattles a lil also, but its the actual sound of the bass thats not to my standards. My subs would be that powerful, and with every system i do i use atleast one Frad cap. to help the batt and alternator. I dont goto the extreme watts where i would need a performance alt. Ive used a set of MB Quart's reference components before and they deliver some of the best mid's and highs ive heard without spending a million dollars. the bose system is nice i just dont find it to be that impressive.

The other technology that I know that produces excellent bass in a small enclosure is by a company called Sunfire. The link below shows their 13 in. speaker enclosure that produces a bass frequency response down to 16 hz. I don't know of any Bose products that goes down this low.

http://www.sunfire.com/TrueSubwooferEQSigPR.htm

I also like MB Quart's reference speakers. I installed these speakers in my Cadillac and IMO they sound better than even the new systems that Boss is installing in newer cars. Boss does a good job at marketing and satisfying the mass public but it leaves something to be desired for true audiophiles.

I agree... the highs and mids from MB quart are supurb

[thaghost87]

I understand this, because young guys are looking for bass that goes into the 20 hz range with authority. When I was your age, we preferred clear and crisp high frequency..

The BOSE system while impressive for most music, is not capable of SERIOUSLY low bass that you guys are looking for. Since bass is NOT directional, I would be curious how the existing BOSE system sounds modified with two 12" subs in the trunk as previously described. Do you guys think that would satisfy your bass need?

your right, but if you dont have crisp highs to match a lot of base then the music will sound horrible!! which is what a lot of people do today. they add subs,turn them all the way up, and then cant really hear the words, or a snare drum tap in a song.

Are you saying two of the subs that are currently in the rear deck? It depends on how they sound when you put them into a sealed box. they maybe only made for free air use. But if you put two 12' sub(lets saw mtx 7500) then that would be nice, because when you do that you could take most of the low's out of the cabin of the car, relieving stress on the speakers which would improve your mids. since the highs are handled by tweeters then they would most likely stay the same. But to do that you would have to be able to remove the bass from the cabin speakers and im not sure if you can do that with the factory radio without affecting the rear sub that you would hook up.

Look at post #15, that is what I am talking about, detaching the existing sub, and connecting a new single of dual sub ported box facing the back seat with its own amp. That should improve the bass greatly and you could adjust the bass to your liking, the only issue would be whether or not the highs we adequate for you..

O well yea.. that would give me the bass i want, but like you said the highs then might be drowned out by the add bass. but you could adjust it as to where it wouldnt be.

[BodybyFisher]

A couple of years ago, I built a box out of 3/4" dense composition board with 2 - 10" Rockford Fosgate Punch dual voice coil subs and a Rockford 400 watt mono amp for my son and it was impressive in his RX7 . So impressive, that he flaunted it and got it stolen promptly,

http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Ite...gate&tp=111

[thaghost87]

A couple of years ago, I built a box out of 3/4" dense composition board with 2 - 10" Rockford Fosgate Punch dual voice coil subs and a Rockford 400 watt mono amp for my son and it was impressive in his RX7 . So impressive, that he flaunted it and got it stolen promptly,

http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Ite...gate&tp=111

Takes skill to make a sub box.. i might try it one day.. whish i knew how to do fiberglass.

[BodybyFisher]

A couple of years ago, I built a box out of 3/4" dense composition board with 2 - 10" Rockford Fosgate Punch dual voice coil subs and a Rockford 400 watt mono amp for my son and it was impressive in his RX7 . So impressive, that he flaunted it and got it stolen promptly,

<a href="http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Ite...gate&tp=111" target="_blank">http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Ite...gate&tp=111</a>

Takes skill to make a sub box.. i might try it one day.. whish i knew how to do fiberglass.

It is actually quite easy, if you can get the wood cut by the lumber yard, 3/4 inch high density board is hard to cut, unless you have a table saw. You just need to build it to the correct volume and cut the holes correctly and cut the port to the correct length.

I have an incredible book on speaker building that provides formulas for volume and for predicting low frequency rolloff. The hard part is getting the speakers detailed specifications to put them into the formula.

[BodybyFisher]

Luckily companies like Rockford Fosgate provides you with detailed specifications to be able to determine correct box size and to predict bass rolloff, etc See the Thiele-Small Specifications, that is the information that can be hard to get on off the shelf speakers.

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/libr...210_revA-TS.pdf

I have this Loudspeaker Cookbook by Vance Dickason, its amazing, about 20 years ago, I was building speakers for friends and I had a proto-type that I came close to selling at a high end distributor. I was a total nut about this stuff at one point

http://www.amazon.com/Loudspeaker-Design-C...n/dp/1882580109

[thaghost87]

Luckily companies like Rockford Fosgate provides you with detailed specifications to be able to determine correct box size and to predict bass rolloff, etc See the Thiele-Small Specifications, that is the information that can be hard to get on off the shelf speakers.

<a href="http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/libr...210_revA-TS.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/libr...210_revA-TS.pdf</a>

I have this Loudspeaker Cookbook by Vance Dickason, its amazing, about 20 years ago, I was building speakers for friends and I had a proto-type that I came close to selling at a high end distributor. I was a total nut about this stuff at one point

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Loudspeaker-Design-C...n/dp/1882580109" target="_blank">http://www.amazon.com/Loudspeaker-Design-C...n/dp/1882580109</a>

how did the proto-type sound??

[BodybyFisher]

Good enough that I had a high end audio shop on Long Island pushing me to build them. They sounded amazing in a sound proof room being driven with Mark Levinson pre-amps and SUMO amps... They compared favorably to Dahlquist. I couldnt build them in my garage however and didnt have the capital to buy equipment and a shop...

[03SLS25]

I just want an all-round sound upgrade. If I feel like cruising with the music pounding... I want to do it, if I want to laugh at all the little ricer kids thinking they're cool with their 2L sewing machines... I want to do it. I want my V8 to sound like a V8, and my music to sound like a bloody concert hall. You get me?

[catmendo]

"I want to do it. I want my V8 to sound like a V8, and my music to sound like a bloody concert hall.

You get me? "

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

yes, and I do hear you and as I have said before, I am not an audiophile ...

but , if you think that you can have a muscle car sound, and a premo stereo sound system

at the same time, then you are dreaming ...

although... it is possible to do so ... You can't do them both at the same time ...

you can listen to your stereo, while the motor isn't running and rock ...

but, if you are an audiophile, and you think, that you can fatten your exhaust system

and also, improve your stereo system at the same time ... then, please rethink ...

Lane

[catmendo]

"I want to do it. I want my V8 to sound like a V8, and my music to sound like a bloody concert hall.

You get me? "

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

yes, and I do hear you and as I have said before, I am not an audiophile ...

but , if you think that you can have a muscle car sound, and a premo stereo sound system

at the same time, then you are dreaming ...

although... it is possible to do so ... You can't do them both at the same time ...

you can listen to your stereo, while the motor isn't running and rock ...

but, if you are an audiophile, and you think, that you can fatten your exhaust system

and also, improve your stereo system at the same time ... then, please rethink ...

Lane

[Cadillac Jim]

V8 sound:

<a href="http://www.borla.com/proxs/pages/muflroff_ctr.php" target="_blank">http://www.borla.com/proxs/pages/muflroff_ctr.php

</a>

Look for part number 40358, 2.5" in, 2.5" out, center/offset. You can get these in stainless steel from other makers, too, but be aware that this is a straight-thorough muffler, not a general replacement "turbo" muffler and it has a different sound. If your cat isn't shipshape, a 49-state OBD certified one is the Magniflow 94109 (welding required, using your old cat's flanges and HO2S bosses).

As far as the living room sound, the Bose system has that and it works with these mufflers in my ETC. Several hundred watts of bass isn't concert hall sound, unless you are talking about an Iggy Pop concert, not a Philadelphia Symphony concert, but if you want that, be sure that your aftermarket bass driver is designed to work with Bose systems (integrates L and R channel without upsetting the existing signals, works from high-impedance line signals and not speaker signals, and has instructions that make sense to you with your Bose system). Also, get a trickle charger, and make sure that the adhesive on the headliner and the windshield are in good shape, and tighten up the jack and spare, and all the chrome trim and rear-view mirrors so that they don't rattle.

[thaghost87]

"I want to do it. I want my V8 to sound like a V8, and my music to sound like a bloody concert hall.

You get me? "

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

yes, and I do hear you and as I have said before, I am not an audiophile ...

but , if you think that you can have a muscle car sound, and a premo stereo sound system

at the same time, then you are dreaming ...

although... it is possible to do so ... You can't do them both at the same time ...

you can listen to your stereo, while the motor isn't running and rock ...

but, if you are an audiophile, and you think, that you can fatten your exhaust system

and also, improve your stereo system at the same time ... then, please rethink ...

Lane

I am not to sure how loud the exhaust systems you guys use, they may be a lot louder than some of the ones that i hear but what if you dampen the car real good?? Use dynomat on the fire wall, doors, trunk sides and lid, and inside of side body panels. Dynomat is used to prevent vibration, and act as a sound proofing. that might help keep your music in and the muffler out.

"Dynamat creates a "sonic barrier" that restores dynamic range lost to road noise. When you stop road noise and vibration, you clearly hear more of the sounds you want - like music, navigation systems, mobile video and cell phones."

[Texas Jim]

I am not to sure how loud the exhaust systems you guys use, they may be a lot louder than some of the ones that i hear but what if you dampen the car real good?? Use dynomat on the fire wall, doors, trunk sides and lid, and inside of side body panels. Dynomat is used to prevent vibration, and act as a sound proofing. that might help keep your music in and the muffler out.

"Dynamat creates a "sonic barrier" that restores dynamic range lost to road noise. When you stop road noise and vibration, you clearly hear more of the sounds you want - like music, navigation systems, mobile video and cell phones."

I have thought about doing that to my 2006 DTS.

I would like it to be ULTRA QUITE on the inside.

It would be a lot of work taking out all the seats and carpeting and adding the Dynomat.

But it might be worth it.

I DON'T LIKE ROAD NOISE or any out side noise for that matter unless it is the N* talking to me.

[thaghost87]

I am not to sure how loud the exhaust systems you guys use, they may be a lot louder than some of the ones that i hear but what if you dampen the car real good?? Use dynomat on the fire wall, doors, trunk sides and lid, and inside of side body panels. Dynomat is used to prevent vibration, and act as a sound proofing. that might help keep your music in and the muffler out.

"Dynamat creates a "sonic barrier" that restores dynamic range lost to road noise. When you stop road noise and vibration, you clearly hear more of the sounds you want - like music, navigation systems, mobile video and cell phones."

I have thought about doing that to my 2006 DTS.

I would like it to be ULTRA QUITE on the inside.

It would be a lot of work taking out all the seats and carpeting and adding the Dynomat.

But it might be worth it.

I DON'T LIKE ROAD NOISE or any out side noise for that matter unless it is the N* talking to me.

i agree..

[jking220]

Im not sure about inside the cabin, but my 01 STS has "dynamat" installed in the trunk. Its not brand name dynamat, Im sure its factory installed. My sisters old deville had a "dynamat" type foam sheet on the inside of the doors, I forget the exact name, but it was nice and was made for the doors.

[WarrenJ]

Well said. I am lucky I suppose that I like all music BUT rap, and metal,

I've long thought RAP was invented such that folk who can't sing might still sell recordings. Could be wrong though. Could be an old fart. Am.

Regards,

Warren

[WarrenJ]

If you have poor bass from a Bose system, there's something wrong. I would look into it. If I turn mine up I can see the inside rearview mirror vibrate.

If you want hundreds of watts of bass, then you need more power and bigger speakers... and a bigger battery and alternator.

That's the long and short of it in one concise soundbite. Thanks. Still, I'd like to know how to keep that rearview mirror pointed in the correct direction.

Regards,

Warren

[JimD]

Well said. I am lucky I suppose that I like all music BUT rap, and metal,

I've long thought RAP was invented such that folk who can't sing might still sell recordings. Could be wrong though. Could be an old fart. Am.

Regards,

Warren

My long list of oxymorons yields a coin flip for first place;

jumbo shrimp vs. rap music.

[WarrenJ]

My long list of oxymorons yields a coin flip for first place;

jumbo shrimp vs. rap music.

:D