Bad motor---Now what???

[Gyounker]

Headed out to Tampa and ended overheating and being towed home. Radiator shop put some chemicals in coolant and it turned yellow. I am now good for about 20 miles and then the temperature gauge starts rising. I love my 98 Eldorado but with the cost of engine replacement I might be better off just looking for a new/used Eldorado. I sure could use some advise on what to do----numbers on repair would be helpful. It looks like it would cost about $3000.00 when a motor is located. Is it time to throw in the towell? I don't know what happened because I am always checking to make sure my cars run OK.

[Regis]

What did the shop say was the cause of the over heating? Are there any codes? Was there any coolant loss? If there was, can you tell from where? Could simply be a worn out cap on the surge tank, thermostat, neglected coolant or improper mixture, etc. More detailed information is needed.

[Gyounker]

The radiator shop put some dye in water that turned yellow showing carbon monoxide(?) present. They said it was a bad head gasket---or worse.

Water came out radiator cap overflow when temp went up.

Is it better to get a new motor installed or pay to find out if it is just a head gasket, warped heads, or maybe a cracked block? What should a motor change cost?

It might be wiser to take the same money and buy a used economy car---gas being around $4.00 a gallon.

My service manual says engine can be driven for about 30 min if fluids are lost. Well that didn't happen. I stopped immediately and still got the problem.

I like the car but the decision still must be made.

[jackc]

The presence of CO in the coolant, combined with the symptoms fit with the usual pattern for a head gasket failure.

In most cases its fixable, but expensive, as the engine has to be pulled and the head bolt holes inserted with inserts specially made for this job (NOT helicoils).

In some cases, the block will not hold the inserts, so the engine must be replaced. On the other hand, many Northstars have had successful head gasket replacements.

A dealership repair will probably run somewhere in the $3,000 range, give or take a grand - as its a 20 + hour job. The number of mechanics that can do this repair correctly is limited.

Brave and talented folks here have done the job themselves in the $800-$900 range.

Now we don't know for sure that this is in fact your problem, but the usual signs are there. There are some tests that can be done to confirm, and isolate the problem to the specific cylinder that is allowing exhaust into the cooling system.

I'll leave the "is it worth it" question for you and others......

Do some searches on this site for head gasket. Lots of info on this.

[BodybyFisher]

This is a shame, I always hate hearing it. How many miles are on it? Do you know the car's maintenance history? What condition is it in, body, suspension, seats etc..

The question to me is, can you get a car as good as the car you have, for the $3000 repair? Do you have additional funds to invest into a car or do you want to take on a loan? Since you are an Eldorado lover, it might make sense for you to seek out the last year, 2002?, and get a good version of your car while you still can..

This is never an easy decision, good luck and I am sorry to hear the bad news

[80Caddy]

Im inclined to agree with fisher. If cost is an issue, will the $3000 dollars be more or less then a new car, whatever you end up deciding on?

[KHE]

The radiator shop put some dye in water that turned yellow showing carbon monoxide(?) present. They said it was a bad head gasket---or worse.

Water came out radiator cap overflow when temp went up.

Is it better to get a new motor installed or pay to find out if it is just a head gasket, warped heads, or maybe a cracked block? What should a motor change cost?

It might be wiser to take the same money and buy a used economy car---gas being around $4.00 a gallon.

My service manual says engine can be driven for about 30 min if fluids are lost. Well that didn't happen. I stopped immediately and still got the problem.

I like the car but the decision still must be made.

The heads will not be warped or the block cracked... the engine is designed to remain undamaged and functional for 50 miles without coolant.

Are you able to do your own service work? if so, my advice would be to repair the existing engine. It can be done for the tune of $800 in parts and tools. $400 of that is the Timesert kit. If you have to have a dealer do the work, it's going to be around $3000 but the engine will be stronger than new. If the dealer will not guarantee the job or gives you a line of BS that the repair won't hold, find another dealer. The ones who state up front that they will not guarantee the work are the ones who take shortcuts (such as not using the drill alignment fixture and setting the inserts too deep in the block) to beat the rate.

[Gyounker]

I got about 22 miles from home when suddenly the AC went warm. I looked at the dash and saw the message that the engine was hot and the AC was shut down. I pulled over immediately ( not 50 miles). When I got out I saw a stream of water behind me that came from the radiator overflow when it opened the cap. I then got towed home.

I drove to the radiator shop and got the news. I can drive about 15 miles with the AC off before the temp starts to go above normal. I have made trips to the bank, etc. while trying to find out the problem. I can add a little water/coolant and make small trips.

My mechanic died last Saturday with liver cancer so I must now find somebody new and reliable. I love the Eldorado but again, could I be missing the economic issue with gas going up, cost of repair, reduction in value of luxury V8 cars, etc.?????

[Gyounker]

I got about 22 miles from home when suddenly the AC went warm. I looked at the dash and saw the message that the engine was hot and the AC was shut down. I pulled over immediately ( not 50 miles). When I got out I saw a stream of water behind me that came from the radiator overflow when it opened the cap. I then got towed home.

I drove to the radiator shop and got the news. I can drive about 15 miles with the AC off before the temp starts to go above normal. I have made trips to the bank, etc. while trying to find out the problem. I can add a little water/coolant and make small trips.

My mechanic died last Saturday with liver cancer so I must now find somebody new and reliable. I love the Eldorado but again, could I be missing the economic issue with gas going up, cost of repair, reduction in value of luxury V8 cars, etc.?????

[jackc]

Pressure up each cylinder using shop air. When you get to the one that makes the coolant bubble, that's where the head gasket is bad. Do a search here for more info on that.

You may get lucky and find the leak is on the front head. If so, somebody can probably fix it without pulling the engine.

Then fix it and sell it before the rear one goes too.

As much as I love my Eldo, these are expensive cars to maintain. For you - with a 98 - if you're not in it for the love, it would make economic sense to get out.

[Gyounker]

I also have a 92 Eldorado that had a similar problem last year. I put in a new motor with only 53,700 miles on it plus a new radiator and had the trans checked and flushed. All this came to $1,570.00 and it now has 10,000 more miles and running fine.

I can't believe lightning hit again considering I change the oil regularly and check the body fluids each week.

This is why the decision is not so easy. I am glad I fixed the 92 and kept it but with the 98 the expenses are approaching looking around for a replacement.

I have rebuilt chevy motors myself but I don't want to take any chances with a Northstar engine. I understand the mechanics that are being described to me by the thoughtful forum members, and when I look outside and see my gold 98 Eldorado that I have had for 4.5 years it is harder to deceide to just say goodbye.

I think I should just let a little time go by and let the final solution evolve. In the meantime I can talk to some mechanics and see where I stand.

[adallak]

I also have a 92 Eldorado that had a similar problem last year. I put in a new motor with only 53,700 miles on it plus a new radiator and had the trans checked and flushed. All this came to $1,570.00 and it now has 10,000 more miles and running fine.

I can't believe lightning hit again considering I change the oil regularly and check the body fluids each week.

This is why the decision is not so easy. I am glad I fixed the 92 and kept it but with the 98 the expenses are approaching looking around for a replacement.

I have rebuilt chevy motors myself but I don't want to take any chances with a Northstar engine. I understand the mechanics that are being described to me by the thoughtful forum members, and when I look outside and see my gold 98 Eldorado that I have had for 4.5 years it is harder to deceide to just say goodbye.

I think I should just let a little time go by and let the final solution evolve. In the meantime I can talk to some mechanics and see where I stand.

The 92 Eldorado came with 4.9 engine. Blown headgaskets on 4.9 are extremely rare. Are you sure that was the problem?

[Gyounker]

My mechanic showed me that when he removed the radiator cap on the 92, and the engine was running, there was a lot of bubbling coming up through the coolant. Without paying to pull the heads, etc., I felt the low mileage replacement motor was the way to go.

It looks like on the 98 the return line comes in high on the fill tank and is above the coolant level. With the pressure cap off, gases come out, even though I don't actually see any bubbling in the coolant. The water turned yellow which was the test for gasses. The radiator people felt they had the answer they needed. If it would have remained blue from the testing mix it would have been OK.

Even though the local parts people don't currently have a used motor they said it would cost about $1500.00, plus the cost of doing the switch. I feel the cost to do the switch would be about $800.00 to $1000.00.

[BodybyFisher]

VERY VERY rare to have a head gasket problem on a 4.9, its more the cylinder o-rings that are the problem but they would not cause bubbles. If your coolant is showing combustion by products with a test kit, you probably do have a head gasket problem on the 98.

I can get NS engines for about 1000 to 1500, try calling junk yards yourself and see what you find.

[joeb]

you see caddy's with bad motors occasionally. i think most people fix them. i just found a 97 blk STS with a bad headgasket. they want about 1k for it. 150k miles though. it has a new radiator and WP. typical repair route to fix an overheating issue. if the body is NICE i might consider it. i have not looked at it yet but the owner says it is in great shape. new alt. and frt tires too.

[BodybyFisher]

Yesterday, I saw a 2000 Seville with 85K on it, the engine had been hydrolocked, it went through water. They wanted $3500 for it. Given that it was in Fair to Good condition, I didn't think it was worth it, the car did not grab me.

[KHE]

Pressure up each cylinder using shop air. When you get to the one that makes the coolant bubble, that's where the head gasket is bad. Do a search here for more info on that.

You may get lucky and find the leak is on the front head. If so, somebody can probably fix it without pulling the engine.

Then fix it and sell it before the rear one goes too.

As much as I love my Eldo, these are expensive cars to maintain. For you - with a 98 - if you're not in it for the love, it would make economic sense to get out.

It is a bad idea just to repair one side - if one side is bad, the other side is not far behind. Personally, I could not sell a car with a half done repair job which doing only one headgasket is.

I also have a 92 Eldorado that had a similar problem last year. I put in a new motor with only 53,700 miles on it plus a new radiator and had the trans checked and flushed. All this came to $1,570.00 and it now has 10,000 more miles and running fine.

I can't believe lightning hit again considering I change the oil regularly and check the body fluids each week.

This is why the decision is not so easy. I am glad I fixed the 92 and kept it but with the 98 the expenses are approaching looking around for a replacement.

I have rebuilt chevy motors myself but I don't want to take any chances with a Northstar engine. I understand the mechanics that are being described to me by the thoughtful forum members, and when I look outside and see my gold 98 Eldorado that I have had for 4.5 years it is harder to deceide to just say goodbye.

I think I should just let a little time go by and let the final solution evolve. In the meantime I can talk to some mechanics and see where I stand.

Changing the oil regularly has nothing to do with a head gasket failure. The Northstar engine is not difficult to work on - it is quite the opposite. Following the correct procedures is a must for success. Do not let the Northstar engine intimidate you from repairing it.

Yesterday, I saw a 2000 Seville with 85K on it, the engine had been hydrolocked, it went through water. They wanted $3500 for it. Given that it was in Fair to Good condition, I didn't think it was worth it, the car did not grab me.

I agree - $3500 was way overpriced given the condition of the car and the engine. It is amazing on what people think their stuff is worth...

[MrEldo97]

This is a difficult one to answer and it all comes down to dollars and cents IMO.

Practically speaking a ten year old car is not worth putting serious money into.

The evidence as presented points to the possibility/fact that you have head bolts that have pulled out of the block.

The same thing happened to my '97 Eldorado a year and a half ago. I made the repair myself and 18 moths and 15K miles

later all is very well indeed. It cost me $800-$900 in tools and parts and I did some other work that increased my costs.

IF you are capable of doing the job yourself it's worth making the repair. If you have a used engine installed

WITHOUT TIMESERTING the block you stand a good chance of having to go through this all over again.

IS IT REALLY WORTH PUTTING $3,000.00 to $5,000.00 into repairing a car that might be worth only $5,000.00?

I live in Lutz and Ed Morse Cadillac on Fletcher quoted me $5,000.00 to make this repair.

Please feel free to contact me off-line and I will advise.

Roger

[KHE]

IS IT REALLY WORTH PUTTING $3,000.00 to $5,000.00 into repairing a car that might be worth only $5,000.00?

The real issue is what can he buy for $3000-$5000 as a replacement vehicle. With the current car, the history and condition are known.

[Texas Jim]

The real issue is what can he buy for $3000-$5000 as a replacement vehicle. With the current car, the history and condition are known.

What KHE said....

[BodybyFisher]

Me to, me to!

The question to me is, can you get a car as good as the car you have, for the $3000 repair?

[Gyounker]

The answer is not easy that is why I appreciate the forum input.

In the past 10 days I have seen two 98 Eldorado's for sale around $3500.00. Again I did not see them but one had 110,000 miles which is about the same as mine.

I saved my 92 with a new motor last year and I am glad, but that was only $1500.00.

I can't help but keep thinking that it was originally a $40,000.00 car but with all the fine features it seems like there is so many more things to need repair. Replacing the starter was a real thrill.

I am very much on the fence in my decision making process. After all, we must all like the Cadillac or we would not be in the forum.

[BodybyFisher]

Look at my signiture and you will understand that this >>>

After all, we must all like the Cadillac or we would not be in the forum

IS TRUE