God must hate me.

[jcobz28]

WHAT HAVE I DONE TO DESERVE THIS?!? The timesert job is great. No coolant leaks, motor runs 100% fine. Now, I have the dreaded PC0717 code for a bad ISS sensor in the trans. Car starts in 2nd and wont' shift out of it. Just my luck. Would have been so easy to change while I had the cradle out. Now I gotta go through most of the same work all over again to get to this flippin' POS sensor.

I have a serious mind to just go trade the car in right now... need to go cool off now.

I HATE THIS CAR!!!!!!!!!!!

[stsjoe]

Deep breaths, If you didn't have that code before, double check the wiring harness and clean all your connections, Deep breaths

Joe

[jschunke]

It must be a love-hate relationship. Otherwise you

wouldn't have bothered with the timesert job. It will

be much easier to take it apart now that you've done

it once already.

[WarrenJ]

"Wine is sure proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."

-- Benjamin Franklin

I believe beer qualifies as well. I'd suggest a few cold ones and a day (or two) off before any hard decisions are made.

In the meantime I'll hoist one or three in your honor. Just to help out.

Bummer!

Regards,

Warren

[Poobah]

If you didn't have that code before, double check the wiring harness and clean all your connections . . . .

Joe

For this to happen so soon after finishing a major project like pulling the heads, I would suspect something got goofed up while you were working on it. Wiring, linkages, vaccuum lines, things of that nature. Anything is possible but two major repairs at virtually the same time would be an awful coincidence.

[BigCat83]

I'd suggest re-checking your electrical connections to the trans (the switch mounted to the shifter cable for example) and the ground wire that goes to the stud that holds the exhaust crossover pipe on the lower left side.

[jcobz28]

It may have been a pre-existing condition that I wasn't told about. I purchased the car having been told there was a bad headgasket leak. I was also told the trans was fine. Obviously not. I had no way to really test out the trans very much when I bought the car, as it leaked coolant as if you were pouring an open bottle, and I pretty much pulled it up on a trailer, off the trailer, and in my garage. Never had a chance to shift through gears...

I think I'm going to enjoy having 2 cars in the garage for a bit, having spent today cleaning out the garage and it's crazy mess from the timesert job. The Cadillac is mobile, so it can be moved around. I'm tossing around the idea of a dealer trade in, I've been wanting to get a newer car for a while. How thoroughly do you think a dealer would be checking out the trade? I mean, if he just drove around the parking lot you would never know. And as long as I clear the code first, it won't set the code unless you try to make the car shift by going over like 20 mph.

On the other hand... dropping the cradle would go faster the 2nd time around... Been there. Done that. And I would only need to partially drop it. I'll try cleaning the connectors first, and pray that a miracle happens and it works, but my guess is this car was truly better off going to a junk yard than me buying it and trying to fix it if it was in need of a timesert job and trans work (as it appears it was). Plus, it's got other crap wrong with it. Both drivers side window motors are bad. Leather is cracked like crazy. Knobs on radio are missing. Body rusting at bottom of doors. All these little things I am noticing more now that I have been staring at the car for a while and going over it tooth and comb. Probably not a smart buy on my part. But it has been a good learning experience, and from time to time, even fun... which is part of the reason I undertook the project... I just love wrenching sometimes! But for now, I've had enough, and just wasn't looking forward to this added surprise. Guess I'll mull it over this week and make a decision later.

Anybody want to buy a fix'r-upper SLS?

[ted tcb]

I can't imagine your frustration level after turning that last bolt, then realizing its time to crack open the tranny.

Hopefully, you opt for one more repair ... after this, you'll know that SLS inside and out.

Re the dealer buying your car without disclosing the tranny problem ... probably not a swift move.

You'll save a couple of bucks, but the moral and potential legal consequences aren't really worth the risk.

Good luck ... many here have dumped lots of time and effort in the first few months of ownership, to be

rewarded with years of relatively inexpensive motoring to follow.

[WarrenJ]

Looking back, what I considered "humor" in Post #4 was inappropriate. My apologies.

I'm not sure how I'd feel about foisting off a vehicle on someone, even if that someone were a dealer. Your call.

Considering your most recent description of the car: yes, maybe it was boneyard material at the outset.

You might continue with repairs so as to recover your $$ equity, but the sweat equity is history. Once again, your call.

Have you considered "parting out" the car? The engine would be worth a few significant bucks. Additionally the tranny, even with the sensor problem, would have significant worth once it is outside the car, since a sensor replacement would be a cakewalk with the tranny on the floor.

Regards,

Warren

[BodybyFisher]

Listen having just done the ISS sensor, I know its no picnic. I drove it for a year with the code coming up, it drops you out of OD (4th), uses the vehicle speed sensor, and defaults to a default line pressure causing it to shift rough. It is driveable however. The timing does suck, I admit, but don't slit your wrists over it. See my thread. If you have done the timesert job, the ISS sensor is a walk in the park. You can tilt the carriage in place.

As others have said check your grounds and check the main tranny plug for tranny fluid and for a good connection

[Cadillac Jim]

The 1997 FSM, pages 7-102 through 7-105, main points:

DTC P0717 Input Speed Sensor Circuit No Signal

Schematic shows the sensor connected between terminals V and S on the transmission connector, with the pair going to the PCM connector terminals 5 and 6.

The sensor produces an AC voltage that varies from 0.5 Volts at 100 rpm to more than 100 volts at 8000 RPM.

### The ISS sensor has a resistance value of 1300 Ohms to 1950 Ohms. ###

Conditions for setting the DTC

• No TP DTCs P0121, P0122, or P0123 are set.
• No VSS DTCs P0502 or P0503 are set.
• No TFP Val. Position Sw. DTC P1810 is set.
• The engine is not in fuel cut off.
• The engine is running for more than 5 seconds.
• The transmission is not in Park or Neutral.
• The vehicle speed is greater than 16 km/h (10 mph).
• The input(shaft) speed is less than 50 RPM for 2 seconds.

Action Taken When the DTC Sets

• The PCM illuminates the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL).
• SERVICE ENGINE SOON, SERVICE TRANSMISSION displays on the Driver Information Center (DIC).
• The PCM commands default line pressure.
• The PCM inhibits Torque Converter Clutch.
• The PCM disables steady state adapts.
• The PCM disables upshift adapts.
• The PCM disables garage shift adapts.
• The PCM inhibits garage shift pressure calculations.
• The PCM calculates input(shaft) speed from vehicle speed and commanded gear.
• DTC P0717 is stored in the PCM history.

Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC

• The PCM turns OFF the MIL after three consecutive trips without a failure reported.
• A scan tool can clear the DTC from the PCM history. The PCM clears the DTC from the PCM history if the vehicle completes 40 warm-up cycles without a failure reported.
• The PCM cancels the DTC default actions when the fault no longer exists and the ignition is OFF long enough in order to power down the PCM.

Diagnostic Aids

• Inspect the wiring for poor electrical connections at the PCM. Inspect the wiring for poor electrical connections at the transmission 20-way connector. Inspect the wiring for poor electrical connections at the A/T ISS sensor 2-way connector. Look for the following problems:

  -- A bent terminal

  -- A backed-out terminal

  -- A damaged terminal

  -- Poor terminal tension

  -- A chafed wire

  -- A broken wire inside the insulation

  -- Moisture intrusion

• When diagnosing fo ran intermittent short or open, massage the wiring harness while watching the test equ9ipment for a change.
• Inspect the transmission 20-way connector for transmission fluid.

I would look at the sensor resistance and the diagnostic aids. There is a three-page diagnostic table that I can scan in if you need it. If you have a FSM, this information is in Chapter 7 in Volume 2.

[clarkz71]

Now, I have the dreaded PC0717 code for a bad ISS sensor in the trans. Car starts in 2nd and wont' shift out of it. Just my luck. Would have been so easy to change while I had the cradle out. Now I gotta go through most of the same work all over again to get to this flippin' POS sensor.

Just an FYI, a bad ISS sensor won't cause the transaxle to start in second or not shift through the gears. I believe you just have a wiring problem or the C129 connector isn't secure.

[jcobz28]

Jim - thanks for the detailed info from the FSM. I don't have one, so that is excellent info. The only thing I need now is a diagram of the pin numbering for that connector so I know which pins to probe with my meter. If someone could post that I would greatly appreciate it!!!

Clarkz71 - is that so? If so, that really gives me hope. The car definitely never upshifts or downshifts. I can tell it is starting off in 2nd because it bogs off the line, and then picks up around 10 mph or so. If I get going about 15 mph, and then floor the gas pedal, there is no downshift. It feels like a 1-speed trans - so I assume that it is 2nd gear I am stuck in. Are there more people in agreement that this is NOT typical of an ISS failure?? (even though that is the only PCM code i am getting?)

[BodybyFisher]

Jim - thanks for the detailed info from the FSM. I don't have one, so that is excellent info. The only thing I need now is a diagram of the pin numbering for that connector so I know which pins to probe with my meter. If someone could post that I would greatly appreciate it!!!

Clarkz71 - is that so? If so, that really gives me hope. The car definitely never upshifts or downshifts. I can tell it is starting off in 2nd because it bogs off the line, and then picks up around 10 mph or so. If I get going about 15 mph, and then floor the gas pedal, there is no downshift. It feels like a 1-speed trans - so I assume that it is 2nd gear I am stuck in. Are there more people in agreement that this is NOT typical of an ISS failure?? (even though that is the only PCM code i am getting?)

That is true, its possible you have a shift solenoid problem, the only symptoms are the ones I cited above and the ones that Jim cited from the manual.

[clarkz71]

I think Mike already answered that, he has been driving his car right up until he took it apart. The only problem he had was no TCC (no lock-up converter) Check the transaxle plug (C129), make sure no pins got bent or pushed into the housing.

[BodybyFisher]

I think Mike already answered that, he has been driving his car right up until he took it apart. The only problem he had was no TCC (no lock-up converter) Check the transaxle plug (C129), make sure no pins got bent or pushed into the housing.

Thanks Clarkz, I thought my post was invisible

[jcobz28]

Fair enough. I will check the plug when I have time in the next few evenings. A post of the plug's pin numbering sequence would be great.

What I just don't get is why throw the ISS code, if it's not the ISS that's bad? If it were bad shift solenoids, why wouldn't it set a different code?

[KHE]

Fair enough. I will check the plug when I have time in the next few evenings. A post of the plug's pin numbering sequence would be great.

What I just don't get is why throw the ISS code, if it's not the ISS that's bad? If it were bad shift solenoids, why wouldn't it set a different code?

If the connector pins are not making a proper contact, the PCM does not "see" the sensor and thinks that it has failed. Sometimes, shift solenoids don't throw a code since the most common failure mode is a cracked housing. The solenoid still activates and satisfies the logic in the PCM but since the plunger can be bound, it does not perform the intended function. I'm not saying that is the case in your trans. but it has happened.

[jcobz28]

If it were a cracked housing, I would have seen this when I had the trans pan off, right? I saw 2 solenoids, and althrough I didn't scrutinize them, they appeared normal. Those are the shift solenoids, right? When you say they often crack when they fail, how bad do they crack. Is it something I would have obviously taken note of if they were cracked (massive crack and failure), or are they typically a hairline fracture or something...?

KHE, I guess what you are saying gives me hope. That if the connector is not working right, then the missed pin for the ISS would set that code, and the missed pins for the shift solenoids would not set a code, but just inhibit shifting. Maybe?!? Please?!?

[Cadillac Jim]

BodybyFisher's (Mike's) post that has the tranny connector pinout is here:

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?act...&pid=105694

[BodybyFisher]

Here is the key to the pinout

Pin Wire Color Circuit No. Function

A 0.8 LT GRN1222 1-2 Shift Solenoid (1-2 SS) Valve Control

B 0.8 YEL 1223 2-3 Shift Solenoid (2-3 SS) Valve Control

C 0.8 PPL 1228 Pressure Control Solenoid (PC Sol.) Valve HIGH Control

D 0.8 LT BLU 1229 PC Sol. Valve LOW Control

E 0.8 RED 741 Transmission Solenoid Power

L 0.8 BRN 452 Transmission Fluid Temperature (TFT) Sensor LOW

M 0.8 GRY 1227 TFT Sensor HIGH

N 0.8 PNK 1224 Range Signal A

P 0.8 ORN 1226 Range Signal C

R 0.8 DK BLU1225 Range Signal B

S 0.8 BLK 1330 AutomaticTransmission Input Shaft Speed (A/T ISS) Sensor HIGH

T 0.8 TAN 422 Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid (TCC Sol.) Valve Control

U 0.8 WHT 420 Torque Converter Clutch Pulse Width Modulation Solenoid (TCC PWM Sol.) Valve Power

V 0.8 GRN 1331 A/T ISS Sensor LOW

[BodybyFisher]

If it were a cracked housing, I would have seen this when I had the trans pan off, right? I saw 2 solenoids, and althrough I didn't scrutinize them, they appeared normal. Those are the shift solenoids, right? When you say they often crack when they fail, how bad do they crack. Is it something I would have obviously taken note of if they were cracked (massive crack and failure), or are they typically a hairline fracture or something...?

KHE, I guess what you are saying gives me hope. That if the connector is not working right, then the missed pin for the ISS would set that code, and the missed pins for the shift solenoids would not set a code, but just inhibit shifting. Maybe?!? Please?!?

Is the ISS sensor (P0717) current or history?

Its hard to believe that your shift solenoids would go bad at this time. I believe this could be related to the plug, pull the plug apart and see if any pins are bent, etc. Also, there are TWO large grounds on the main wiring harness, make sure you restored them to the side of the tranny. I just did this job, there are three grounds in total two connect to the transaxle and one to the ABS motor.

[jcobz28]

Yes I did reconnect the 2 grounds that go to the trans case. I do not know about a 3rd ground though! Could this be my problem?!?

I DO DO DO also have the "Traction control" and "ABS Brake" lights illuminated. I do not recall ever connecting a ground to the ABS motor. I did notice on the big wiring harness leading to the ABS (with the latch type lever), that about a foot down the wiring harness there was a metal tab sticking out of the harness, that looked like it should attach to the cradle. I did NOT attach it, because I could not find where it went to on the cradle (no available hole). And the harness was already routed fine, so I just left it. Is that tab, REALLY A GROUND?!? If so, that could totally explain my ABS/TCS lights.

As for the trans/solenoids/ISS issue... yes the code shows up as History. But then I clear the codes, drive the car, and AS SOON as the car should shift (but doesn't), the SES light, service trans message comes up, and the code gets thrown. It always shows as a History code though, never current. But I assume this is because I am reading the code after I park the car, at which point it is not technically Current.

You guys really got my hopes up here with this whole connector thing. I am trying to keep myself pessimistic so that when my bad luck finally reveals itself and I do need to drop the trans, that its not too big of a let down.

How lame is it that rather than being at work I'd rather be at home checking a wiring harness connector?

Guess I should go do some real work...

[BodybyFisher]

Here is a photo of where the third ground goes on the ABS, since the ABS is held by rubber feet not attaching the ground (see red circle for ground location) will cause a problem. This wire is thinner than the other two grounds that attach to the transaxle.

[KHE]

You mentioned the ABS and TCS lights are on. Did you disconnect the EBTCM (electronic brake and traction control module) during the engine removal process? There is a metal cam that pulls the harness into the EBTCM. There should be other codes stored in the diagnostics that are the source of the ABS and TCS lights illuminating.