High mileage oil for 83k mile NS?

[coolnesss]

The oil change guy today suggested I put in high mileage oil for a 98 ETC with 83k miles - the car is used mainly in town, uses a quart 1500-2000 miles - what is the collective wisdom on high mileage oil?

THANKS!

[Cadillac Jim]

I would use the oil recommended by GM and Cadillac. In any case, 83K is young for a Northstar. Your bearings aren't going to be loose, your oil pressure is not going to be lower than that of a car with 1,000 miles or more on the engine, and your steel bores still have the cross-hatching on them from the manufacturing process.

I run 5W-30 Mobil 1 synthetic oil in mine and have for many years. The manual and oil filler cap say 10W-30, and if I weren't running synthetic oil that's what I would use.

Northstar oil burning is a ring-sticking issue and not a wear issue. More than 1,000 miles per quart is acceptable, although the factory manual says that a quart every 2,000 miles should trigger a look at where the oil is going. There is a page on oil consumption in Nothstars on this board here. There are several articles and GM service bulletins on the "How to" page of this site.

[JasonA]

A lot of us either do use or have used High Mileage oils in the past. They're a relative bargain when you consider their constituents and their cost. At $2-3/quart, they're a relatively good deal, and will work well with your engine. They typically run a TOUCH thicker than other oils of the nominal viscosity (eg. 10W-30), and many don't bear the "ENERGY CONSERVING" label on the API starburst. Having said that, you shouldn't notice any difference in fuel economy.

Having said all that, he MAY be just trying to sell you a higher-priced oil. And typically, those oil change places markup the "specialized" oils like High Mileage and Truck/SUV branded oils more than their true cost difference. If his price delta is 100%, I'd skip it. But if it's just a few dollars more, it won't hurt anything, and may just help some of your seals last longer. I noticed that my car DID leak less oil with High Mileage oil. That's an objective measure. With normal oil, I get a drop of oil on the garage floor every other night or so. With the High Mileage oils, any oil drips were moderately reduced.

[JimD]

The oil change guy today suggested I put in high mileage oil for a 98 ETC with 83k miles - the car is used mainly in town, uses a quart 1500-2000 miles - what is the collective wisdom on high mileage oil?

THANKS!

The oil type and grade specified in the Owner's Manual will trump an oil change guy or oil company marketing effort every time.

It is amusing to see the oil company TV advertisements claiming their oil will do whatever is the claim de jour. Like swelling the gaskets to prevent oil leaks which would be more believeable if modern engines still used cork gaskets.

And 83,000 is not high mileage.

[GreenMachine]

I noticed within a few days of using the 10w-30 Castrol GTX High Mileage smoother engine operation. Prior to that I was using a synthetic blend. I'm going to try the Kendall High Mileage oil next.

The castrol stuff about it cleaning up and making an old engine new is no joke, inside there when I take a peak it looks good and everything stays well oiled. I would recommended it, most high mileage oils offer stronger additive packages.

[Regis]

223,000 miles on regular plain old oil.....go figure. One thing to keep in mind is that marketing companies have become very good at what they do best. A good example is the Text Messaging option on cell phone plans. In the early days of cell phones this feature was free, as it should be. Let me explain. Before cell phones became so common users enjoyed crystal clear connections. That's because in the early days you might have been sharing a signal tower with maybe a 100 other people so you always had a steady constant signal. In recent years the towers have been used beyond capacity so to accommadate the extra load the signals are now pulsed rather than steady. That's why no matter how good your cell phone is today it will never sound as good as when there were fewer users. And what is another way to get people to use less tower space? Get them to use Text Messaging! Get them excited about a feature that is terribly primitive, takes more time to use, and best of all..... they'll pay for it!!!

As stated before use what the manual says. If the manual says at 85,000 miles to start using high mileage oil then by all means you should. A heck of a lot of money was spent validating the type of oil for the Northstar. This board has a lot of smart members and if you or others fall prey to something other then the GM manual recommendations don't feel stupid but rather realize that you are a product of great marketing.

[BodybyFisher]

I use the high mileage blends and find that it slows down leaking. Many above are stating to use what the manual recommends but the high mileage blends were not available until recently.

Just as the synthetics tend to leak more the high mileage blends seem to leak less. By the way, I do not see a big difference in price.

I have used this one:

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/pr...l.asp?product=7

See this also:

http://www.valvoline.com/carcare/articlevi...g=ccr20030901v2

[JohnnyG]

Why? It won't lower oil consumption, unless MAYBE you have a leak somewhere. In fact it could be detrimental if the oil maker uses more VII's to achieve what most percieve to be a "thicker" oil in the stated grade. Use 10W-30 conventional dino oil, synthetic is neither required or recommended. As another has mentioned here, it may also lower your fuel mileage since it may not be rated as "Energy Conserving".

Lower your oil consumption, if you really have concerns about that, by doing the WOT procedure from time to time. If you MUST use high mileage oil, at least wait until you get about 200,000 miles on the car, and that's not really high for a Northstar.

The definitions of "synthetic" oil have been blurred greatly in recent years. Most conventional oils have a component of heavily modified base stocks, which (thanks to Castrol) are now "officially" defined as synthetic. SM rated oils generally must contain modified base stocks to meet API specs. One of the most redily available "true" synthetics is Mobil1, but it is not the only true synthetic. Redline, Royal Purple, also come to mind.

[JasonA]

Johnny, is Mobil 1 the only mass-market "true" synthetic? What is that, a Group V oil? All other "synthetic" oils on the mass-market shelves, like Syntec, Pennzoil Plat, and any of the others -- are they primarily modified petroleum base oils?

Does the SM requirement generally require Group III oil or better? I remember when Group II was the norm, and quality oils were using Group II+ stocks. Is everyone pretty much using Group III nowadays? I'm a total rookie when it comes to oil technology.

[BodybyFisher]

Johnny, Yes I do have a leak probably case half, and I find that the high mileage blend slows it. No I don't top off. My gas mileage is fine, on a recent trip I averaged 22.5 over 1200 miles with AC on, four big guys, luggage at high speeds with stop and go added in. Pretty good if you ask me.

If you look above, I have suggested WOTs and the 40 to 70 and 70 to 40 second gear procedure which I do regularly. I don't get the cold rap. Anyone who I recommend the high mileage blend to seems to be happy with it... Call it a personal preference but I never see the ADD OIL light anymore.

[JohnnyG]

Body, my post was directed toward the original poster, not you. If you like the stuff, nothing I can say will change your mind. Remember the rule about motor oil posts........................

[BodybyFisher]

I hope I wasn't sounding testy Johnny. I was just relaying my experiences with it. In the hot weather at high speeds and temps, the consumption is low and I like the way the engine sounds.

I know how the oil discussions get, worse than the tire discussions,

Tell my why it is that you are not a high mileage oil blend guy... What is your field of work, it involves oil doesn't it?

[JohnnyG]

Johnny, is Mobil 1 the only mass-market "true" synthetic? What is that, a Group V oil? All other "synthetic" oils on the mass-market shelves, like Syntec, Pennzoil Plat, and any of the others -- are they primarily modified petroleum base oils?

I think Penzoil Platinum may be a true synthetic, not completely sure. The German Syntec 0W-30 which was available for a while was a PAO (group IV), but to consider that mass market would prob. not be completely correct. It was sold mostly for the Euopean specs, such as Volkwagon's, but was an outstanding oil. It's no longer sold in the German made version. Jury is still out as to whether it continues to be a true synthetic. The other Syntecs were never considered to be true synthetics in my book, but the courts saw it their way, so they can call it synthetic. And price it as such.

Does the SM requirement generally require Group III oil or better? I remember when Group II was the norm, and quality oils were using Group II+ stocks. Is everyone pretty much using Group III nowadays? I'm a total rookie when it comes to oil technology.

The SM requirement is pretty tough to attain without group III components, high Moly will do a lot, but reducing ZDP sure makes it tough to meet all the specs without some GOOD, highly modified, basestocks. I'm like you, I don't really care to be an expert on lubrication, and the group #s included in an oil's makeup is a closely guarded secret. I would be lying if I told you what I thought each manufacturer uses. Let's face it, with improvements to lubes and the improvements to engines being MUCH easier on oils (GM's engines anyway) NOBODY needs to be an oil expert these days. All you need to do is figure out what is BS and Marketing Hype, and let the GMOLM do the rest. I found that Havoline 10W-30 and 5W-30 meet the needs of both of my vehicles, and my kind of driving, and I will use it exclusively for the forseeable future.

I hate to refer you to an outside site, but you need to go to bobistheoilguy.com if you want to learn about lubricants (of ALL kinds).

[Ranger]

Body, my post was directed toward the original poster, not you. If you like the stuff, nothing I can say will change your mind. Remember the rule about motor oil posts........................

We have a rule about motor oil posts?

[JohnnyG]

Tell my why it is that you are not a high mileage oil blend guy... What is your field of work, it involves oil doesn't it?

Gasoline, Diesel Fuel, kerosene, nowadays, more commonly referred to as: low sulfur gasoline, ULTRA low sulfur diesel fuel, and Kerosene all with UNDER 15 PPM sulfur content by weight. Now diesel powered vehicles can enjoy the benefits of the catalytic converter! I run a wholesale terminal.

As to the oil question....I think its marketing hype, with no real substance or benefit to the consumer, only the producer. $$$ Sorta like 4X4 oil in my opinion....BS.

We have a rule about motor oil posts?

Yeah, but I think I wrote it so it really doesn't count as an official rule. I think it goes something like this: "There shall never be a reason to try to convince somebody that they should change the type of motor oil that they use. It shall be considered a personal chioce, kinda like the color of the car they drive, or the woman they married."

You can call it a "Man Law" if you like

[BodybyFisher]

I guess we are all influenced by advertising in one way or another, isn't "Man Law" a recent Miller Beer commercial?

[Fast95SLS]

I have 281,000 on my Northstar and started using oil at the rate of 1 quart every 500 to 750 miles. It appeared to be a valve seal problem. I would get a puff of smoke after sitting overnight or more than 5 hours. I started using Pennzoil High Mileage 10w30 and dropped the consumption to 1 quart every 1,200 to 1,500 miles. As for the WOT, I drive my car hard every day. On the weekends, I put an average of 8 passes down the 1/8 mile drag strip. I experimented with going back to conventional oil and after the 2nd oil change I started to use more oil. I have decided to stay with the high mileage, it is costing me $8 more per oil change.

[The Fred]

I use Valvoline Maxlife,

Always have..

AC Delco filter.

My Northy doesn't seem to leak or burn any oil.. aint had it long though.. I recommend the Delco filters and the Valvoline.

[BodybyFisher]

I have 281,000 on my Northstar and started using oil at the rate of 1 quart every 500 to 750 miles. It appeared to be a valve seal problem. I would get a puff of smoke after sitting overnight or more than 5 hours. I started using Pennzoil High Mileage 10w30 and dropped the consumption to 1 quart every 1,200 to 1,500 miles. As for the WOT, I drive my car hard every day. On the weekends, I put an average of 8 passes down the 1/8 mile drag strip. I experimented with going back to conventional oil and after the 2nd oil change I started to use more oil. I have decided to stay with the high mileage, it is costing me $8 more per oil change.

Thanks for posting your experience

[JohnnyG]

JasonA, here is a little excerpt from a discussion that I ran across. After all is said and done, including input from one who used to work at Shell/Pennzoil, the bottom line seems to be that Pennzoil Platinum will stand up to the demands of any vehicle with an OLM........but that doesn't make it a group V!

The only chemistry to have its own group is PAO(nice move Mobil). Grp V includes esters, alkylated Napthalene, EOP and many others that don't fit into the mold of Refined Crude lubricant or PAO.

It does not make it any better than PAO just becasue it's a higher Group number. It simply the way the classification mstandartd works.

GRP 1-3 are based on the viscosity index of the base oil refined from liquid petroleum that comes from the ground or is recycled.

Grp IV is PAO.

Grp V is any synthesized lubricant that does not fall into groups I-IV

There are many GRP V's Esters being just one of them. In addition there are more Esters than a mere Neophyte like I could identify.

[JasonA]

BITOG is such an incredible resource, but it's so VAST, it's often hard to find what you're looking for, especially if you don't know the technical jargon as is used oft on that site.

I've considered using Mobil 1 0W-30 in our Grand Caravan, just for the better cranking when cold. If I could find a conventional in 0W-30 weight, I'd try it first. But especially in the 5-gallon jugs M1 is relatively cheap. Still over DOUBLE the price of Havoline, which I've used extensively in the Cadillac with great results. A few folks on the Chrysler Minivan Fan Club forum use M1 and change the oil once a year, regardless of mileage. We'll see...

By the way, the German Castrol (0W-30) is still available at Auto Zone. Maybe they're just depleting their stock? I bought a coupla quarts for my small engines the other day.

[JohnnyG]

I've considered using Mobil 1 0W-30 in our Grand Caravan, just for the better cranking when cold. If I could find a conventional in 0W-30 weight, I'd try it first. But especially in the 5-gallon jugs M1 is relatively cheap. Still over DOUBLE the price of Havoline, which I've used extensively in the Cadillac with great results. A few folks on the Chrysler Minivan Fan Club forum use M1 and change the oil once a year, regardless of mileage. We'll see...

By the way, the German Castrol (0W-30) is still available at Auto Zone. Maybe they're just depleting their stock? I bought a coupla quarts for my small engines the other day.

I know what you mean about the BITOG site, you need about a month of reading to understand exactly what motor oil is.......

Which leads me to the reply.

Why would you consider 0W-30 in a Dodge Caravan? Does it have trouble starting? Do you live in the north where temps get below 0 for a long time?

Why don't you just follow the owner's manual?

And, I suppose finally, there is no 0W-30 conventional dino oil, if there were, why would we need synthetics?

[JasonA]

Which leads me to the reply.

Why would you consider 0W-30 in a Dodge Caravan? Does it have trouble starting? Do you live in the north where temps get below 0 for a long time?

Why don't you just follow the owner's manual?

And, I suppose finally, there is no 0W-30 conventional dino oil, if there were, why would we need synthetics?

I'm considering it for better lubrication at startup. Because there are no conventional oils in the 0W-30 weight, I'm sure Dodge spec'd the "thinnest" oil it could in a conventional weight, or 5W-30. A lot of folks in cold climates are using 0W- synthetics in their 3.3/3.8 engines with good results.

Ours doesn't have problems starting, but I can notice a marked difference in cranking speeds/times between a 10W- and a 5W- oil, when it's "cold" out (25*F or below). So it makes me wonder if it would be even easier on 0W- oil.

Again, I suspect the reason the manual spec'd 5W-30 is because that's the thinnest conventional oil. It's a minivan, so they wouldn't dare specify a synthetic oil would they?

But the price difference between conventional and synthetic is still more than 2x, so I probably will stick with conventional 5W-30 oil.

Maybe I just need a bigger battery!

[KHE]

There is enough residual oil on all the bearings and critical moving parts to protect the engine at startup. Any increase in flow at the temperatures you expierence will be negligible. Most mfgrs. will spec. the thinnest oil they can for fuel economy reasons.