Huge problem, oil leak -please help!

[chiggins1066]

I have a 2000 Seville SLS that is consuming massive quantities of oil. After a little testing, I'm going through something like a quart a week! 2 weeks after an oil change, I will get a "check oil level" message, and the dip stick will have no oil on it. I took it into Schoeffler Cadillac in Lafayette Louisiana and they told me they couldn't find a leak.

So I figure the sensors must be off. Then, today, I took it to a 10 minute oil change place, and they told me "you have an oil leak in the rear seal. You were down to 2 quarts!" And I had an oil change at the dealership a month ago (2700 miles ago).

So I took it BACK to Schoeffler, who called me a liar, said the guy at the lube place didn't know what he was talking about, etc. Now I find that there is a known issue with the Northstar engine and oil leaks, especially on the Seville. Worse yet, it is $2000 to repair and difficult to diagnose!

I called Cadillac directly, and they told me that since my warranty just ran out (29 days ago), they would charge me for any repairs (I spoke with Marcus Marino). I said "I brought this in for this problem when the car was under warranty!" Cadillac wouldn't budge. They were rude and short with me.

So now I have a problem that

a) Cadillac refuses to acknowledge

Even if it does exist, they will charge me for it, even though I started the case when the car was under warranty

c) the car might not be safe to drive.

Does anyone have any idea what I can do, save for trading this car in?

[Ranger]

According to your numbers, you are using 2 qt per 2700 miles or 1 qt per 1350. That is not eccessive. Did you get under the cat at the lube place and actually see the oil leak? Was it just damp or wet and dripping?

[chiggins1066]

Not 2 quarts... 5 quarts. The 10 minute oil change place said I had roughly 2 quarts left out of 7.

They also tell me there is a leak, and I don't know who to believe.

[Ed Fenwick]

Aloha 1066,

Loosing 5 qt's in 2700 miles you should be able to see a big puddle under the car when you park in your garage. Often times a leak will be at the oil filter, not put on correctly or an o ring bad. These are easy to see yourself if you check under the hood. Do you have a receipt from the dealer when you first told him about the loss? That would prove that the leak was there while your car was in warranty. Look at the car with a friend or go to a good repair shop, quickly lube doesn't really care about your car.

Look further, good luck Ed

[Ranger]

Not 2 quarts... 5 quarts. The 10 minute oil change place said I had roughly 2 quarts left out of 7.

They also tell me there is a leak, and I don't know who to believe.

Well, I would be more inclined to believe the dealer mechanic than a Jiffy Lube grease monkey. Get a third opinion and ask to personally see the underside of the engine.

[adallak]

Not 2 quarts... 5 quarts. The 10 minute oil change place said I had roughly 2 quarts left out of 7.

They also tell me there is a leak, and I don't know who to believe.

Believe yourself. Take care of oil yourself. Write down added oil gal/miles data for at least 3000 miles. Check out the deepstick when engine is hot.

As Ranger indicated 1 QTR per 1000 miles is not considered excessive oil usage for Northstars. Notice: it is not a leak it is usage.

Search the archives for WOT procedure which will help to reduce oil usage. WOT is for Wide Open Throttle.

[chiggins1066]

I spoke with another cadillac mechanic (in Chicago) and he told me these leaks don't gather on the ground, they go down the frame rail. He said it could be a "rear crank shaft leak" (at least I think that's what it was).

He also said this is a known problem with the Northstar engine and extremely expensive and difficult to fix.

Is it normal with these cars 2 weeks after an oil change to have the "check oil level" indicator to come on, and for the meter to get down to 68% after 2700 miles?

[BodybyFisher]

Stop topping off the oil, don't use synthetic, use high mileage 10W30, check for leaks at the cam covers, oil filter, oil filter adapter, cooler lines, snug up the pan bolts where possible or torque them to spec, and drive the hell out of it.

Look up the WOT procedure or someone will provide the WOT procedure and that will solve a major part of your oil usage. Do the procedure once a week (second gear full throttle runs from 40 to 70 then let it slow down to 40 then repeat 10 times).

If you are not burning the oil, and not leaking the oil, you are driving wussy. Do the procedure, pay no attention to mechanics, or Cadillac dealers, and forget the A-holes that talk about fires...

You said, "I called Cadillac directly, and they told me that since my warranty just ran out (29 days ago), they would charge me for any repairs (I spoke with Marcus Marino). I said "I brought this in for this problem when the car was under warranty!" Cadillac wouldn't budge. They were rude and short with me"

Of course they won't fix it out of warranty, why should they? Just do what we all are recommending and you will be fine, pay VERY little attention to mechanics that are trying to GOUGE and SCARE you, the Northstar is a great engine, but it has been designed to be RUN HARD, and it WILL use a little oil, check it out and drive it hard.

[Ranger]

The light in two weeks is not normal, unless you are driving several thousand miles in those two weeks. The question that comes to my mind is, did the jiffy Lube bozo know that the Northstar takes 7.5 qts. or did he just put in 5? That would explain a lot. How much oil does your receipt show? Like Adallak said, start from scratch. Bring the oil level up to the mid level makr (NOT MAX) on the dipstick and keep track of it for a while. It may not be as bad as you are led to believe.

[BodybyFisher]

I spoke with another cadillac mechanic (in Chicago) and he told me these leaks don't gather on the ground, they go down the frame rail. He said it could be a "rear crank shaft leak" (at least I think that's what it was).

He also said this is a known problem with the Northstar engine and extremely expensive and difficult to fix.

Is it normal with these cars 2 weeks after an oil change to have the "check oil level" indicator to come on, and for the meter to get down to 68% after 2700 miles?

NORMAL? NO.... Are you sure they put the full amount of OIL in??? It sounds like they didn't. ALL of a SUDDEN you are using OIL like this, NOT LIKELY. THE CLOWNS that changed the oil didn't put enough OIL in... Start from scratch! ALWAYS check the oil when you have the oil changed, TRUST NO MECHANIC! And in my opinion stay the hell away from jiffy lubes and 10 minute oil changing places, they are inexperienced kids who THINK they know what is going on...

As far as the 68% in 2700 miles yes that is possible if you are taking short trips.

[JimD]

....

Is it normal with these cars 2 weeks after an oil change to have the "check oil level" indicator to come on, and for the meter to get down to 68% after 2700 miles?

If you mean 68% Oil Life Remaining after 2,700 miles, that would be very good and indicates that you are not driving short trips. And your next oil change would be due at approximately an 8,400 mile interval.

And having the Check Oil Level message come ON after 2,700 miles is considered acceptable oil consumption. The oil level message is triggered at approximately 5 quarts remaining.

So.... just how much oil are you losing / using?

[chiggins1066]

the last time the oil was changed was at the dealership -but I don't know how much they put in.

But I do see that the Jiffy Lube place put 5 quarts in today -which means they didn't put enough in.

I was told that under the car was "damp" -they didn't say anything about dripping.

I hope you guys are right -I worry about this "defect" that other people are talking about!

[BodybyFisher]

Mine is damp also, DON'T WORRY about it...

[Ranger]

But I do see that the Jiffy Lube place put 5 quarts in today -which means they didn't put enough in.

And therein lies your "problem".

[JimD]

the last time the oil was changed was at the dealership -but I don't know how much they put in.

But I do see that the Jiffy Lube place put 5 quarts in today -which means they didn't put enough in.

I was told that under the car was "damp" -they didn't say anything about dripping.

I hope you guys are right -I worry about this "defect" that other people are talking about!

There is a reasonable chance the dealer's people put in the required 7.5 qts (with filter change). Be aware that oil changes at the dealer "might be" performed by a contractor rather than dealer employees. But at least they are changing the oil in Northstars all day every day.

Your experience with Jiffy Lube is the main reason why Northstar owners, who are able to do so, change their own oil and filter.

There is no defect; what there is is gasket material that seeps a little non-pressurized oil. There is good and bad information available on the Internet; labeling an oil drip a defect is an example of the bad. Look on the bright side; you have an automatic, continuous, rust inhibitor dispenser for the ferrous parts behind the bottom of the engine.

And, you are tapped into a group of regulars on this board with many hundreds of thousands of miles experience with Northstars. Probably millions of miles.

[KHE]

the last time the oil was changed was at the dealership -but I don't know how much they put in.

But I do see that the Jiffy Lube place put 5 quarts in today -which means they didn't put enough in.

I was told that under the car was "damp" -they didn't say anything about dripping.

I hope you guys are right -I worry about this "defect" that other people are talking about!

The Northstar engine takes 7.5 quarts with a new filter. Sounds like you need to educate the Jiffy Lube monkies or find another place to change your oil. Forget about any seepage at the crankcase joint - it is not a high pressure area of the oil system and will rarely, if ever, leak to the ground. You never would have noticed it if the Jiffy Lube monkies would have installed the proper amount of oil. Later models incorporate an anerobic sealant but I would never tear apart an engine just to "fix" the crankcase half seepage. Many dealerships will use the crankcase seepage as a scare tactic to generate revenue.

[stsjoe]

And, you are tapped into a group of regulars on this board with many hundreds of thousands of miles experience with Northstars. Probably millions of miles.

Heck Jim, I've got 202000 on mine alone!

[chiggins1066]

I suppose one possibility is that I am burning oil. How serious this is, I don't know. The oil consumption issue didn't show up until there was roughly 50k miles on the car.

I wish I could change my own oil, but I don't have anywhere to put the old oil, and I don't have the right tools.

[BodybyFisher]

You are NOT listening......so much so, that I am beginning you are a troll. If you are going to continue to ignore what we post and continue to put up conjecture this not only is a waste of time for YOU but a waste of time for us. We have tried to calm your nerves here and you have not picked up on that. I am looking for an STS, how much do you want for yours?

PLEASE read the posts, DO the WOT procedure. You are not burning oil.

Look at your first post, Cadillac said the jiffy lube/10 minute didn't know what they were talking about. Find a good mechanic, ask questions here and follow what the experienced people here say to do.. As KHE said, if the engine is seeping a little oil its NOT worth $2200 for a case half leak, as a matter of fact you OPEN yourself up to OTHER issues. I wouldn't let Jiffy Lube or 10 Minute empty my ASH TRAY...

WHen I bought my 96 it was 7 years old with only 46K miles on it. The guy who drove it was in his high 60's.. He drove it conservatively. I was getting under 1000 miles per quart. I NOW get about 1,500 miles per quart. You ALSO have low mileage for your year, it needs to be re-broken in, do the WOT procedure as I and others have suggested. CADILLAC could NOT find a LEAK. Do what we say and use good standard oil. I am serious by the way about my interest in your STS, I will sell my Deville and buy your STS, post a photo...

[Ed Fenwick]

I suppose one possibility is that I am burning oil. How serious this is, I don't know. The oil consumption issue didn't show up until there was roughly 50k miles on the car.

I wish I could change my own oil, but I don't have anywhere to put the old oil, and I don't have the right tools.

At a qt, per 500 miles, you should see blue smoke out the back when you WOT, do some WOTs, do 2 every day. Check the oil every day. Get to know your engine. You will feel better about owing a Cadillac if you are involves with it. Oil changes are not difficult to do and is the best thing for your engine. Talk to the folks at a parts store, they will give you a pan to drain the oil into and a box of stuffing to put the oil in before you put it in the trash. Or give you better ways to dispose of it.

[Ranger]

I suppose one possibility is that I am burning oil. How serious this is, I don't know. The oil consumption issue didn't show up until there was roughly 50k miles on the car.

Oil consumption is not a "problem". Read up in the link below. Once you understand it, you won't consider it a problem or worry about it.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/cadillac-tech.html#noil

[JohnnyG]

I can attest to the FACT that all of these suggestions are correct and that the WOT procedure works! When I first bought my '99 STS with about 35,000 miles on it, back in 2002, it would use about 1/2 quart of oil in 300 miles! Doing EXACTLY what has been posted here, with a WOT about once or twice a month, the oil usage is now down to 1/2 quart in about 1500 miles! I never touched a wrench to the motor or let anyone else change the oil. I fill the engine to the "ADD" mark only and, even on a 3000 mile round trip to FLA, have NEVER had the Engine Oil Level message come on! I am currently using Havoline (dino) 5W-30 with OUTSTANDING results and getting about 27 mpg on the highway.

[jhall]

chiggins1066,

Listen to what the board members are saying.

I had the same experience as JohnnyG and others with "oil burning" at engine start-up with about 75K miles on my '97 Deville. Doing WOT seated the rings and oil use has dropped off.

[PAUL T]

I bought my 94 Concours with an oil leak at 61,000 miles. It was leaking about 1 qt./1200 miles. It later started to leak about 1 qt./800 miles so I tightened up the oil pan bolts and went back to 1 qt./1000 miles. I have a burning oil smell when I am stuck in traffic, the car is undercoated good and should not rust as fast. I have owned my car now about 6 years and now have 138,500 miles on it. I hope to get another 100,000 miles out of it. Looking back, it is the best car I have ever owned. Do not drive it like a weenie, drive it like you stole it. Here's how it breaks down:

77,500 miles driven/1qt.per 1000 miles = 77.5 qts. x $1.60per qt. = $124.00 for extra oil / 5 years of service = $24.80 per year extra oil.

Not bad.

[coolnesss]

The lawyer feels like chiming in . . .

The car should not leak or use oil to the extent you describe, if, after following the excellent recommendations of the other writers to double-check the actual usage, and doing some WOT work, it is using more than 1 quart per 1000 miles.

Secondly, warranty laws in most states provide that, if you bring in a car and complain about a problem when it is in warranty, and, they don't fix it, the lapse of the warranty period does not relieve Cadillac of its obligation to fix the thing.

To pursue this, you must, quickly:

1. Get a reputable independent shop - and I mean reputable - to write up the problem, in great detail. The mechanic must be willing to come to court if necessary, for his hourly fee, and testify to what he found, and, that the problem existed before the warranty ran out, based on your description of the problem and what Jiffy Lube found. This should cost a hundred bux or so. He/She should be ASE certified and have substantial GM experience, and present him/herself well.

2. Call Cadillac and register your complaint, and get a file number.

3. Mail the report, certified, to Cadillac, and simply demand that they fix the problem under the warranty.

4. If they reply in the negative, either file a small claims action against them, and make sure the Court makes the court date on a day when the mechanic can come to testify, or,

Contact a lemon-law lawyer in your city, and see if there's enough in the case for him/her to take it on. Sometimes they can get their fees from the manufacturers, I think.

The mechanic's report/testimony is all important - he/she is the expert that makes the case, not you.