rockfangd Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 Hi All. I ran into this last year on one of my Caddys and this year again, Different car same problem. I have replaced the BPMV and pump assembly on the one last year, have had to do them in the past as well. The motor is not serviced separately. It is part of the unit. Anyway this is on my 97 Deville. Code is the 1243 Stalled pump. I put it away in the Fall, and when I start driving it in the Spring the pump motor is lazy. Worse is that I never use the ABS or Traction Control. If you drive like a normal, (well thats not saying much lol) person it just does not get used enough. I want to be able to exercise the pump motor. I have not yet figured out a way... I have tried Scantools, no luck. There is no relay as it is controlled through the EBTCM. I am at a loss. The only idea I have is That the Case is the ground, The Positive is a Solid wire that runs from the BPMV to the motor. I thought about tapping into the wire and running it to a relay and switch. If I could do that I would run it for a minute and clean up the brushes. This is the 4th one I have owned that I have had this issue. Replacement is not very fun due to location and the fact all 6 brake lines have to be disconnected, then finding a replacement. Just not worth it. Anyone have any insight on the 90s generation ABS. Has anyone had any success cycling the motor with a scantool? I might add that in newer GMs this is still a issue. I have worked on many GMs that had lazy pumps. I use my Scantool and enable the pump for 1 minute. Some will not even spin at first. If that does not work then the whole ABS unit has to be replaced. Did I mention I live in NY where nothing Rusts (NOT). I hope All is Well. This year has been a Drag. I send my best regards out to our fellow members. Quote GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 A quick look at the GM service manual shows no mention of a Tech1 or Tech2 being able to cycle the pump. You do know the unit can be split open? Right? Bruce Nunnally 1 Quote Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barczy01 Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 have someone cycle the key on and off as you tap on the motor of the abs pump with a brass drift or long extension. The pumps tend to freeze up when not being used. I have a 99 deville with 200K on it as a Winter car and cycle it often and it still works great! Bruce Nunnally 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted May 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 That is how I have been doing it. I tap on it, then cycle the key. I do know they can be split. The EBTCM is separate. Pain to get them apart though. Quote GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barczy01 Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 5. T30 torx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 Is there no way to get at the motor to clean up the brushes and commutator and restore the most likely dried up bearing grease? In the last couple of weeks I restored a CS144 (97) alternator (no charge) it had ingested oil and water, the brush springs were rusty and one brush was 1/4" long while the other was 3/4" long, and the slip ring was badly burned where the 1/4" brush rode. This alternator used a needle bearing cup type bearing at the rear and it was dried up. Replaced the bearings, brush set, tested the diode bridge, cleaned up the slip rings and it charges again. The hardest part was getting the correct parts as the design changed along with the bearings and brush set. No way to get inside the motor? Quote Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted May 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 So. There is the rust factor which is part of the issue. So there are 2 bolts that hold the motor to the BPMV, they are small torx. Possibly T15, and they round very easily The other issue is the power wire. It is soldered into the motor itself and is a solid wire that is soldered to the board on the BPMV. So even if you get the bolts out the wire is still a snag. I replaced the motor on one of my Eldos and I cut the wire and spliced the 2 halves back together. Most of the ones I have ever dealt with are rusted so bad that the bolts will not even budge. What I did yesterday was carefully remove a small portion of the insulation from the power wire and ran a jumper wire to the wire. I cycled and tapped the pump, then let it run for a minute. It went from barely spinning to spinning nicely now. The code has not returned yet. I hope being it will be driven it may not. If there was a relay or at least scantool function for it it would have been alot easier Quote GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 If I recall you are in Northern NY where snow and ice would exercise the ABS nicely all winter 😉, but this car is off the road during the winter. Smart way to spin the motor, thanks for sharing Quote Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted May 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 I start the car at least once a month. Sometimes that is just not enough Quote GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 17 minutes ago, rockfangd said: I start the car at least once a month. Sometimes that is just not enough Yes but starting the car doesn't exercise the ABS motor does it? Why isn't it enough?, to keep the battery charged? Quote Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted May 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 It does, but not long enough. It only cycles when the engine is started. Not when the key is cycled on. It only runs for a second, If even that. I keep trickle tenders plugged in for the winter. Keeps the battery and electronics happy😁 Quote GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted September 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2020 So to update this. The motor fried. It just locked up and burnt. I replaced just the motor portion with a tested unit. Light was out for 1 day, then came back. If car was started the lights would come on. If cleared while running they would go out. That led me to reinspect my battery terminals. Sure enough both were loose. I cleaned and tightened the terminals. Charged the battery. Problem still occurs though. I cannot clear lights even when running. Pump does run and it sounds fine. Every time I clear the codes the pump runs for a second or 2. Sounds smooth. I am kind of at a loss at the moment. I cannot deal with the starting off in 2nd gear, and the lack of power caused by the codes. Quote GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted October 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 Well... Replacement pump died. I got it to work for about a week, then it started kicking the lights again and now it just pulls amperage when cycled. So disgusted. Quote GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 15 hours ago, rockfangd said: Well... Replacement pump died. I got it to work for about a week, then it started kicking the lights again and now it just pulls amperage when cycled. So disgusted. I don't know this system's operation well. But could this be something outside the motor frying the motor? Is it a dc motor driven by PWM? Quote Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted October 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 The trigger is a solid copper lead right from the EBTCM to the motor. No plug. The ground goes to the transmission, I also added an additional ground to the stud. The more I think about it I am thinking the ground stud was damaged. (internally) Quote GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 9, 2020 Report Share Posted October 9, 2020 I hope this helps a little, take a look at this thread and the ones below it https://www.cadillacforums.com/threads/code-c1243-bpmv-pum0p-motor-stalled-this-means-what.66580/ Quote Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted October 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 The original pump physically fried. The replacement I believe got damaged in shipping. Something got messed up with the ground stud. If you loosen the nut the stud wiggles. If you tighten the nut just right it shorts when powered. I need to find time to look at it again... I am very tempted to try one off another GM model. The motor itself looks the same but the valve is different. Quote GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 15 hours ago, rockfangd said: The original pump physically fried. The replacement I believe got damaged in shipping. Something got messed up with the ground stud. If you loosen the nut the stud wiggles. If you tighten the nut just right it shorts when powered. I need to find time to look at it again... I am very tempted to try one off another GM model. The motor itself looks the same but the valve is different. Oh ok, you'll get it Quote Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted October 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2020 Yay. Success. I will try to keep this short. The replacement pump I installed was missing the ground wire from the ground stud...the nut was just loosely installed. So I looked at it today on a hunch. I remembered that when I was installing the nut to tighten the ground wire that the stud felt a little loose. Upon further investigation I found that there is supposed to be 2 nuts. Assembly goes as follows Plastic insulator between stud and motor body first nut(was missing) ground lug (was missing when I bought pump) second nut. The moral of the story is that the ground to the motor has to be isolated from the body of the motor. When I installed the lug with the one nut it caused the lug to make contact with the body of the motor and the stud. I reassembled it adding one of my original nuts. Immediately lights go out and the motor purrs. I hope forever. If they come back I will dump it in the canal. Lesson learned Quote GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonjaab Posted October 18, 2020 Report Share Posted October 18, 2020 WOW! So simple a repair to kill a aggravating problem! Quote 93 DeVille-13 Chevy Impala 72 GTO - 77 Triumph Bonneville 84 Z-28 Syracuse NY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted October 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2020 Possibly. I swear if the problem comes back I am going to find a way to bypass it. Never in all of my ownership have I ever used it. Likely why it has issues Quote GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted October 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2020 Ok so I celebrated too soon. I have come to the realization that unlike a Chevy, Parts for these are just not much in existence anymore. Seems nobody rebuilds them, they are no longer available, I bought 3 used ones over the last 6 weeks. 1st could not be located so refunded 2nd is in the car now, Dead. (it does spin but the resistance is too high and motor is weak) 3rd was DOA. I got desperate tonight and cut the positive lead to the motor. I wired up a brand new motor I had in stock (a heater motor), the size is nearly identical. As soon as I started the car the lights are out. Even multiple resets it never fails the test. This proves that the EBTCM, Power circuit, Ground circuit are all good. If any were not it would have still failed. When and only when the engine is first started it comes on for 2 seconds. In that 2 seconds the EBTCM looks for the resistance drawn by the motor. If the resistance is within spec it passes. If it is high or low it fails. I am currently at a loss. My hopes were to drive it but I cannot properly fix the issue. Sad thing is it runs and drives beautiful otherwise. gets 20mpg all day long. Any insight on where I might find a good tested unit would be greatly appreciated. I have tried up to 2002 Eldorado (the last year I know of used) Only in the Eldo til 02 though. Seville was 97, Deville was 99... Thank you all Quote GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonjaab Posted October 20, 2020 Report Share Posted October 20, 2020 My unit has also failed on my 93. I just pulled the fuse and the dash light. Otherwise my brakes work normally and I know how to stop the "old fashioned" way too! I just replaced my front pads and rotors also. I know the pain of finding a replacement unit! Quote 93 DeVille-13 Chevy Impala 72 GTO - 77 Triumph Bonneville 84 Z-28 Syracuse NY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted October 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 I could almost deal with it but on mine it defaults to second gear start. I found 3 shops that I will see if one can rebuild one of the motors. If so I will surely post my results. Quote GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonjaab Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 2nd gear starts you say? Hmmm......My 93 starts in 1st as normal with unit/fuses/bulb disconnected. Diff. in years possibly? BTW: The unit in my 93 Buick rat disabled also with no 2nd gear start either. Quote 93 DeVille-13 Chevy Impala 72 GTO - 77 Triumph Bonneville 84 Z-28 Syracuse NY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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