99 Deville Rear end too high/Window Question

[93SixtySpecial]

I found a replacement for my 99 Deville that some of you may know had the head gasket go out on me about 6 months ago. It's another 99 Deville, white diamond with only 68K on it, which is pretty crazy. An older gentleman had it last and there were a couple of problems and he didn't want to put any money into it so he bought a Buick. The two issues are these: the rear end pumps up way to high. My guess is either the control arm for the height or the exhaust valve. The second is the window switches sometimes work and then other times don't. He said it's kind of random which window will work and which one won't. What are your thoughts on these issues and if you have an idea on what you think would be needed to be replaced. I've seen pictures of the car, but I haven't seen it in person yet. I will be doing that tomorrow. There are a few dents on the car and they wanted $2990 for it. I offered them $1800 and they moved on the price, but not enough to where I wanted to deal with problems and pay that much. After a week or so, they call back and accepted my price. I think it's a good deal if I can get an idea on what it will cost to fix the 2 issues. Here is a link to the car: http://www.donwilhelm.com/VehicleDetails/used-1999-Cadillac-DeVille--Jamestown-ND/1833295123 Thanks in advance!

[Texas Jim]

Go drive it around for a while... the do a HYDROCARBON TEST on the coolant.

BE SURE you test it for head gasket problems before you buy it.

Other that doing that... for 1800 it looks like a good deal.

The interior looks really good.

The passenger side door dent... you may be able to take the door panel off and get your foot in there and if you are lucky, it will pop back out.

[93SixtySpecial]

Already got the coolant tester packed up.

I was thinking about doing that exact same thing to the drivers door and passenger rear door dents. Maybe I'll get lucky and pop them out. Otherwise I was quoted about $700 for each door because they have to blend the paint between the doors due to the white diamond being very noticeable when work is done.

I was looking at some prices online for the suspension issue. I'm thinking either rear leveling sensor(s) or the compressor. I can get a good used compressor for $150 or a sensor for $50. Not bad. Window switches are $50 as well, but I'm not sure that's the issue there.

[rockfangd]

I would think the master switch is likely the window problem.

As for the suspension it is likely the exhaust valve is stuck closed. I would recommend replacing the compressor as a complete unit rather than just the valve. trust me when I tell you I have had dozens apart and everything inside likes to corrode and rust.

Definately check the coolant. 99 was the worst year for the head problem. Also drive it on the highway before purchasing to check engine and be sure there is no trans related issues, check tcc lockup.

other than that 1800 is a great deal

[93SixtySpecial]

I will definitely check the dreaded P0741. I am all too familiar with that code. I already printed out all the codes so that I can check them easily.

Wish me luck!

Thanks for the replies!

[Cadillac Jim]

Of course, you will run the OBD codes, particularly right after you drive it but before you cut off the key.

[KHE]

Sometimes dents can be popped out using a toiler plunger. If the metal is not creased, that may work.

The flaky window operation may be a master switch assembly - about $75.00 from gmotors.com or you may find one in a junkyard.

[93SixtySpecial]

Got the car! It's better than I could have hoped for. It drives like it's brand new. It has brand new Goodyear Assurance tires on it too!

They let me do my testing in their garage so I let the car warm up to about 200 just sitting there and did a block test. They say to leave it on for about a minute, but I left it on for about 5 minutes just to make sure. It didn’t even slightly change colors.

Then I pulled the codes and the only current one was he HVAC steering wheel control was stuck. So I fiddled with the temp control and then the code went to history. No codes after that!

I then went for about a half hour test drive which consisted of hard runs and idling too. The torque converter locked and unlocked nicely. I headed back to the dealership and pulled the codes and did another block test. Both of them turned out perfect! I’m not sure what they were talking about with the suspension because there was no codes and it didn’t seem to sit high in the back to me.

They were at $1800, but I got them to $1700

I’m a little confused on the windows. The rear passenger is the only one that works even if you try the window switches at the doors. I noticed the driver’s side windows button is a little screwy so I’m guessing it’s the switch like KHE said. I’m going to do some testing today with a few things and I’ll grab a switch on eBay if I can’t find anything.

Does anyone have any information on how to remove the switch or the door panel? I don’t want to break anything because it look so nice on the inside.

Thanks! Oh and I forgot to mention that I averaged over 27MPG on the way home. A nice site to see after driving my 93 Sixty Special for the last 6 months getting 21.

[Cadillac Jim]

There's a web site that has videos of DIY body jobs for various cars, including complete removal of the door panel on a 90's Cadillac. That, of course, includes removing and replacing the switch assembly and module. I believe that they just pop out, if you know how. Anyone with a link to the DIY videos?

[KHE]

$1700 was a good price and you can get some body work done on the dent and you'll have a very nice car for the money. Buying a car just to get better mileage usually is not a good deal. In your case, you'd break even after driving almost 50,000 miles. Why is your 60 SPecial only getting 21 mpg? Are the EGR tubes clean?

There are clips that hold the switch to the door panel. I use a machinist's scale to depress the clip and the switch will pop up. Start at the rear of the switch - between the switch and the armrest. Push in on the clip and lift the switch assembly.

[93SixtySpecial]

I didn't buy it for mileage, well, not that alone anyway. The Sixty Special had been repainted and the clear coat is peeling all over and it's got some tranny issues which is one of the main reasons for the mileage issue. Since I'm on the road a lot, I wanted something a little more reliable. My Sixty special has 190K miles on it and 150k of that was city driving in Minneapolis. I wanted all speed traction control for the winters around here and this has Stabilitrak which was a nice surprise as well. I love the Northstar and the 4T80E; It's such a perfect match. And I was very sad when my last ’99’s head bolts started to pull. That was by far my favorite caddy I’ve owned. Don't get me wrong, I love the 4.9 too, but it's just a little more clunky.

I had figured about 42000 miles before I break even just on gas, so we were pretty close. Since I drive about 2000 miles a month, I figure that’s going to take me about 2 years to make my money back.

Thanks for the tip on the window switch. I’ll be ordering one tonight and hopefully be getting it soon so I can see if I need to take the door panels off or not.

[rockfangd]

excellent deal. time to post pictures. all this teasing without pics is wrong.

[Texas Jim]

[KHE]

I'd like to find a deal like that - good job!

[PAUL T]

I had the same window switch problem a few months back on my 97 Deville. The master switch was corroded, I cleaned it up and have not had any problems since. The switch panel prys up from the front if I remember. Do it carefully and it should just pop up. There is a level adjustment for the rear ride height on the drivers side rear on my 97 Deville behind the wheel. If you like the rear deck level then I would not change a thing.

[93SixtySpecial]

Haha, sorry! I'll get some pictures up as soon as it stops raining and I can get a wash. I'm very happy with the deal I got.

I guess the rear end is sitting too high. I walked out to it in the parking lot and it looks jacked up in the back. I’ve also been noticing that it doesn’t take sharp bumps well and it tends to be a little wiggly.

What would cause the suspension to pump up too much, but without a code? Sensor arm maybe? Or is it still the exhaust valve, it’s just not throwing a code?

[KHE]

Not everything will throw a code. If it is adjustable, the ride height sensor may be misadjusted.

The issue with bumps may be worn rear knuckle bushings. Fortunately, there are aftermarket bushings and the job is not that bad.

[93SixtySpecial]

So I was looking at this post: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-seville-cadillac-eldorado-forum/262663-97-eldorado-rear-ride-height-too.html and if I have this right, there is one leveling sensor on this car (driver's side rear wheel) and it won't set a code if there is a failing exhaust valve. Is this correct?

If your Eldorado is ESC and you have non F45 suspension then your single height sensor is also a time delay relay controlling the ELC compressor and exhaust valve. You won't have the second height sensor on the other rear wheel, nor the CVRSS module, so no codes posted in your situation.

Most likely the exhaust valve in the compressor is gone (the most common reason of failure of the ELC system) and the system can't vent.

In a CVRSS car the exhaust valve failure will trigger the CVRSS module to disable the ELC system just so the car doesn't jack up uncontrollably.

We keep talking here about F45 cars but let’s not forget some are non-F45, so once in a while one will show up. So everybody was right up to the code part, yes non-F45 cars won't post codes for ELC system failure.

So if I were to guess it would be an exhaust valve in my situation as well. I went underneath and took a look at the leveling sensor and it is definitely not adjustable. I didn't look on the other side to see if there was another one or not. Where exactly is the compressor located on this? Is it underneath the rear of the car near the cross member? Or is it inside somewhere? I know it was sure easy to get to on my 93 in the engine comparment.

[rockfangd]

not very easy on the Deville. They are squished up above the rear suspension toward the passenger side. I have pulled tons and it is not very fun. especially if rust is involved. I think the location is a good reason why they fail. A bad exhaust valve can throw a RS0038. but not throw a service ride control message

[93SixtySpecial]

I snuck underneath late last night and took a look. You're right, definitely doesn't look too fun. I'll probably have the shaky arm syndrome after trying to replace that.

Should I start with the compressor? I don't have any codes, I just have a high rear end. My car does, not me. Is there anyway to test to confirm either the sensor or the valve?

[KHE]

I snuck underneath late last night and took a look. You're right, definitely doesn't look too fun. I'll probably have the shaky arm syndrome after trying to replace that.

Should I start with the compressor? I don't have any codes, I just have a high rear end. My car does, not me. Is there anyway to test to confirm either the sensor or the valve?

What if you disconnect the arm on the sensor and simulate the car being too high by manually moving the arm? If the system then exhausts, the issue is the sensor. I the system does not exhaust, then you don't know anything more than you do now. The compressor curcuitry has not changed much if at all over the years so if you had a shop manual - even one that is not for your year of car, that might be helpful. Maybe someone could post the schematic of the level control circuit?

[93SixtySpecial]

Sound good. I'll try that first and see if it exhausts. I'll have to figure out which way it needs to go for it to similuate a higher ride. I get all turned around when I'm underneath there.

[rockfangd]

definately try that. just be careful with the link. I have swapped in compressors from olds aurora, cadi catera, buick riviera, pontiac boneville. They are mounted in better locations. I have a special removal ind install for the Deville, seville, and eldo compressor. you can only install and remove it in one position otherwise foul language will fly and it wont budge lol

[93SixtySpecial]

Oh come on now! Don't make me get scared of replacing it now! haha

I went out and unbolted the lever and this is what I got:

I lifted the lever nearly all the way up to simulate a "heavy load" situation. The compressor kicked in and ran constantly. I didn't notice an increase in height, but I wasn't measuring and I didn't let it run longer than a minute.

Secondly, I put the lever all the way down (until it hit the stabilizer bar) to simulate a "light load" and the compressor shut off. I didn't hear any exhausting and the height did not change on the car. I turned the key off and then back on and the compressor ran for about 3 seconds and then shut off. I'm guessing that is the test the compressor does when the key is turned on.

So I'm assuming it's the exhaust valve at this point. What does everyone think?

[KHE]

It could be the exhaust valve or what controls the exhaust valve. A schematic would be handy. I need to look in the shop manual - I think there's an ELC troubleshooting section and schematic.