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97 Deville will not start


PAUL T

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My 97 Deville, with 169,000 miles, was running real rough the other day and I thought it was about out of gas, but after putting gas in it, it still would not start. About a couple weeks ago the fuel gauge went spastic and would jump around between full & empty even when I knew it had at least 1/2 tank of gas. I read some posts that said to put some techtron in to clean the sending unit contacts. After adding that things got worse gauge wise. It now will not start like it has no fuel pressure or spark. I am pretty sure spark is o.k. because it hits sometimes. The following codes are showing.

B0533 - Fuel Level sensor shorted to battery - Current

B1558 - PZM EEPROM Checksum error - History

B1971 - Inadvertant Power Malfunction - History

B2750 - Pass -key Data Communication Failure - Current (Key chip is getting warn)

I replaced the fuel pump with an a new AC pump about 3 years ago. I have not been able to get my fuel pressure gauge on it yet. Right now I have 2 vehicles down with possible fuel pump problems and it is driving me crazy. After going through the codes I am not ruling out that maybe the PZM is causing the problem. I am going to uncover it and check the contacts and maybe tap it and see if there is a change. Right now money is tight and I do not want to just throw parts at it. I did replace the fuel filter before I changed the pump the last time. I might start there also. I will report back when I get the fuel pressure gauge on it. Any other suggestions?

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The fuel level sensor code B0533 is probably due to a wiring harness problem near the gas tank. But the passkey code B2750 CURRENT will prevent the car from starting. The problems are separate.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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I have been haveing the "no start wait 3 minutes" problem for about 6 months. My key is warn and every once in a while it doesn't make good contact. Would it do any good to spray WD40 into the key switch? Or just on the key? I have another key, I guess I could start using it. I will try to clear the codes and use another key and see what comes back.

There are 3 small wires at the back of the fuel tank that I have suspected to have bad connections. I will check them out for the B0533.

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I have been haveing the "no start wait 3 minutes" problem for about 6 months. My key is warn and every once in a while it doesn't make good contact. Would it do any good to spray WD40 into the key switch? Or just on the key? I have another key, I guess I could start using it. I will try to clear the codes and use another key and see what comes back.

If you have a known good key and it still does not want to start, the problem is probably a broken wire in the ignition switch assembly. My bet is the wire is broken on the ignition switch.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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If a known good key doesn't work then the wire in the ignition is probably broken. I've repaired this twice now on two different cars, and I have the first draft of instructions done. ( http://www.diycarfixes.com/easy-passkey-bypass/ ) There aren't any pictures yet, and some of the wording might need to be made more clear. (any suggestions would be appreciated)

You'll need a multimeter, a soldering iron, and about $12 in parts from Radio Shack. I check Caddyinfo everyday and will be around to help if you have questions.

WARNING: I'm a total car newbie, don't be surprised if I ask a stupid question! Just trying to learn.

Cheers!

5% discount code at RockAuto.com - click here for your discount!

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Update:

I cleared the codes, cleaned the switch, used another key and no start. I put the fuel pressure gauge on and with key on, it only shows 5 lbs. Checked the codes and only B0533 and C1242(Traction control) as current came back and no history. I will have to get under it and check the wires at the back of the fuel tank. I even tapped on the PCM but no change. If inspecting and fixing the wires at the tank doesn't work then I will probably be looking for another new fuel pump.

Pass key codes did not come back. I do not think it is the pass key system because the codes never came back after I cleared them and used another key. Besides, the engine is turning over and when the pass key doesn't work then the car won't even turn over.

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Pass key codes did not come back. I do not think it is the pass key system because the codes never came back after I cleared them and used another key. Besides, the engine is turning over and when the pass key doesn't work then the car won't even turn over.

in my (limited) experience, the passkey problem will either get worse and worse until it doesn't work anymore, or it will disappear for a long time until you're suddenly stranded. I've had both happen to me :) On my old 95 STS It showed up one day, didn't show up for another almost two years, and then I was stranded at a buddy's house.

WARNING: I'm a total car newbie, don't be surprised if I ask a stupid question! Just trying to learn.

Cheers!

5% discount code at RockAuto.com - click here for your discount!

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Update:

I cleared the codes, cleaned the switch, used another key and no start. I put the fuel pressure gauge on and with key on, it only shows 5 lbs. Checked the codes and only B0533 and C1242(Traction control) as current came back and no history. I will have to get under it and check the wires at the back of the fuel tank. I even tapped on the PCM but no change. If inspecting and fixing the wires at the tank doesn't work then I will probably be looking for another new fuel pump.

Pass key codes did not come back. I do not think it is the pass key system because the codes never came back after I cleared them and used another key. Besides, the engine is turning over and when the pass key doesn't work then the car won't even turn over.

Do you get "Wait 3 minutes" message when when engine is not even turning? If so, a wire inside ignition lock cylinder is about to fail COMPLETELY. You better bypass it with a known resistor, by inserting it into circuit at the bottom of the column (two white wires inside of an orange sleeve).

Watch this video.

The saddest thing in life is wasted talent

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... I cleared the codes, cleaned the switch, used another key and no start. I put the fuel pressure gauge on and with key on, it only shows 5 lbs. ...

Turn the key off and on until you can't get the fuel pressure to read any higher. The fuel pump runs only about two seconds each time the key is turned on. The peak fuel pressure should read 44 to 48 psi. If you can't get above 5 psi, that's the (or another) no-start problem.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Sometimes I get the "Remove key and wait 3 minutes" message. The starter will not even engage then. It always starts after the 3 minutes. Sometimes it will turn over and start but have the "Car may not restart" message. Car has always restarted. It only does this with the same key. It never does it with a key that my wife has that does not get used much. That is why I believe it is my key, it is very warn. Does the Pass-key only disable the starter? If so then I should get fuel pressure. Starter has always ran since it died. I swapped the fuel pressure relay but had no change. I have not checked the fuses yet. The car is at my in-laws along with my 2003 Excursion the will not start also. I suspect the fuel pump in it too. I have not been having any luck lately with fuel pumps. I just can't figure out why a fuel pump for a cadillac is almost $200 and one for the Excursion is only $145. Excursion is longer and has a 44 gallon tank. I will keep everyone updated.

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I just thought of something else that the car has been doing for some time. It hesitates sometime when you take off. Not like a miss, it like you have to give it more gas to move. I thought maybe the throttle body just needed cleaned.That could have been a weak pump. I also had the charcoal filter get saturated with gas a while back and thought that might cause it to stumble due to gas actually coming into the throttle body instead of vapor.

Edited by PAUL T
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... I cleared the codes, cleaned the switch, used another key and no start. I put the fuel pressure gauge on and with key on, it only shows 5 lbs. ...

Turn the key off and on until you can't get the fuel pressure to read any higher. The fuel pump runs only about two seconds each time the key is turned on. The peak fuel pressure should read 44 to 48 psi. If you can't get above 5 psi, that's the (or another) no-start problem.

I assume the other end of the cut orange wire is what goes to the switch? So you want to make sure you make the resister loop is in the end that does not go to the switch after it is cut. Since his key measured 1128 ohms with a 2% error the 1110 ohm loop worked. I could do that.

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I keep a resistor of correct value in my glove box. Just in case I am stranded somewhere

This chart is for any GM product, Buick, Cadillac, Oldsombile, Chevrolet, and Pontiac that has a VATS key (single or double-sided.)

VATS # (K)OHMS (Set your meter to the 20k ohm setting)

1———— 0.402

2———— 0.523

3———— 0.681

4————-0.887

5————-1.130

6————-1.470

7————-1.870

8————-2.370

9————-3.010

10————3.740

11————4.750

12————6.040

13————7.500

14————9.530

15————11.801

1/2W 1% resistors are fine.

The saddest thing in life is wasted talent

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The passkey intermittent problem has happened to me three or four times over the years. I fix it by getting a new key made. They are inexpensive at the hardware store.

The passkey disables the starter and the fuel injectors and probably the spark. It does *not* disable the two-second fuel pump run that is needed to start a car that has been sitting for a long time.

The OBD codes will tell if you have a fuse or relay problem. I don't believe that you have a trouble code for the fuel pump other than possibly B0533, which may indicate a wiring problem to the fuel pump.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Checked all fuses and relays and no luck. I still have to get under the car to see if the wires coming off the back of the tank are shorted or broke. I hope that is the case but I will not hold my breath. I was a little skeptic of my fuel pressure gauge so I hooked it up to my in-laws 04 Deville and it read 42#'s so I suppose it is accurate. I have another fuel pump in my old 94 Concours. I guess I could hook a battery up to it and see if I get pressure. The only problem is that it has 163,000 miles and I had never changed it, so I don't know how long it will last. I hate to go to all the trouble of dropping the tank and it fail in 6 months or so.

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If you are getting 42 psi that is enough for the car to start and run normally. You can tell if it's spark or gas by smelling the exhaust after turning the engine over for several seconds. If you smell gas, it's the spark. If you don't smell gas, it's not getting gas through the injectors.

If it's not turning over, it's likely the PassKey circuit. I would check the DIC message(s) and the OBD codes again.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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If you are getting 42 psi that is enough for the car to start and run normally. You can tell if it's spark or gas by smelling the exhaust after turning the engine over for several seconds. If you smell gas, it's the spark. If you don't smell gas, it's not getting gas through the injectors.

If it's not turning over, it's likely the PassKey circuit. I would check the DIC message(s) and the OBD codes again.

Unfortunatly Jim the 42lbs. was on my in-laws 04 Deville. My 97 does not even register on the pressure gauge now. It does turn over but it is not getting gas. My only hope is that the wires on the back of the tank are shorted or broke. If not I will need a new pump.

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You might check for voltage on the fuel pump line for a couple of seconds when you turn the key on. Do you have an OBD code, such as P0231 CURRENT?

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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You might check for voltage on the fuel pump line for a couple of seconds when you turn the key on. Do you have an OBD code, such as P0231 CURRENT?

The only code I have for the fuel pump is the code for the sending unit shorted (B0533).

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B0533 Fuel Sensor Open/Shorted To B+

This code can also be thrown by a bad connection to the sending unit, or a broken wire. Is it CURRENT now? You can be sure whether or not it is still a problem by resetting the codes for the PZM and seeing if it comes back. If it's CURRENT, check the replacement wiring.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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B0533 Fuel Sensor Open/Shorted To B+

This code can also be thrown by a bad connection to the sending unit, or a broken wire. Is it CURRENT now? You can be sure whether or not it is still a problem by resetting the codes for the PZM and seeing if it comes back. If it's CURRENT, check the replacement wiring.

Yes it is current and I have reset the codes and it keeps coming back current. I am hoping it's the problem with the pump also. The fuel pump was replaced 3-1/2 years ago but the wires to the tank were not. I am going to try to get under it tomorrow and check, wish me luck.

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Try unplugging the fuel tank wiring and see if the code goes to HISTORY. If so, the short is inside the tank. If it remains CURRENT, then you have a simple wiring issue outside the gas tank.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update: Great news!!! I was able to crawl under the car to check the wires that come off the tank and discovered 2 of the 4 wires are broke. It was getting dark so I did not have enough light to match the wires up. I will work on them tomorrow morning if it does not rain. I will let you kow how it turns out.

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