Radiator Flush

[MarkE]

Sorry for what might be a stupid question; where is the heater hose that I should tap/cut into to put in a radiator flush kit?

[JimD]

Sorry for what might be a stupid question; where is the heater hose that I should tap/cut into to put in a radiator flush kit?

There is no such thing as a 'stupid question'.

But most experienced folks here would tell you that "flushing" any fluids in a modern automobile is not a good idea. Flushing is for commodes; drain and refill is the recommended procedure.

[Cadillac Jim]

If you need to flush your system, the simplest way is to have a good radiator shop do it with their machine. It involves removing the thermostat and hooking the machine onto one or both radiator hoses, and a separate flush of the radiator. Then you must get everything back together with a new thermostat and somehow get the coolant to 50-50.

[rockfangd]

we had this machine at one of the places I worked for that you unhooked the upper radiator hose and the output side of the machine went to the hose, and the input side went to the thermosstat side. Then you rann the car till the thermostat opened and it pushed out the old and pushed in the new. It worked but I dont like the thought of putting cold antifreeze into a hot engine

[Cadillac Jim]

You can leave the thermostat in with a new cooling system like the Northstar but that system works by circulating coolant inside the block and heads at a high rate while allowing just enough cool water in to regulate the temperature. You don't really flush the system that way.

If the whole process starts with a cold engine and no thermostat, and the pump is in the machine, the engine doesn't have to run above an idle, or at all if water can go through the water pump.

[BodybyFisher]

To me, its drain and refill. Take off the bottom hose, direct it into a bucket, drain.. mix new coolant of your choice with distilled water at a 60/40 rate and refill.

I realize that the Guru is now old news but that is all he said to do, and he hated the flush machines. If that is good enough for a member of the Northstar Powertrain team, its good enough for me. No heat?, reverse flush the heater core

[MarkE]

To me, its drain and refill. Take off the bottom hose, direct it into a bucket, drain.. mix new coolant of your choice with distilled water at a 60/40 rate and refill.

I realize that the Guru is now old news but that is all he said to do, and he hated the flush machines. If that is good enough for a member of the Northstar Powertrain team, its good enough for me. No heat?, reverse flush the heater core

Thank you

[MarkE]

You can leave the thermostat in with a new cooling system like the Northstar but that system works by circulating coolant inside the block and heads at a high rate while allowing just enough cool water in to regulate the temperature. You don't really flush the system that way.

If the whole process starts with a cold engine and no thermostat, and the pump is in the machine, the engine doesn't have to run above an idle, or at all if water can go through the water pump.

Thnx.

[Cadillac Jim]

The only time I would recommend flushing the block is when someone has put "green" in the cooling system an you want to go back to DexCool or other OAT antifreeze like just about all auto manufacturers since 1995.

Reverse flushing the radiator and heater core is another matter. I would do that every several years. If you drain and refill your coolant every three years, flush your radiator and heater core every second time, for example. Or, never, if that works for you.

[MarkE]

Thnx

The only time I would recommend flushing the block is when someone has put "green" in the cooling system an you want to go back to DexCool or other OAT antifreeze like just about all auto manufacturers since 1995.

Reverse flushing the radiator and heater core is another matter. I would do that every several years. If you drain and refill your coolant every three years, flush your radiator and heater core every second time, for example. Or, never, if that works for you.

[BodybyFisher]

For the record, while you can flush GREEN out of your engine, GREEN plates the cooling system with silicates. While you can then use DEXCOOL, the cooling system is still plated with the silicates and you still need to use the coolant change interval for GREEN...... unless the engine is BOILED out, GREEN permanently plates the cooling system and the GREEN coolant change interval is required.

[93SixtySpecial]

My father-in-law's 03 Deville that he just bought had green in it. I told him to immediately get that crap out of there. I did not know it coats it though, I'll inform him about that.

I could not see on his radiator that there was a bottom radiator hose. I mean, I saw the upper and a "lower" raditor hose, but it was more than half way up the radiator. Is the lower-middle hose all you have to unhook and drain?

[Cadillac Jim]

There is a petcock low on the radiator of my car (1997 Eldorado) on the driver's side. It's below where the radiator hose connects.

[KHE]

My father-in-law's 03 Deville that he just bought had green in it. I told him to immediately get that crap out of there. I did not know it coats it though, I'll inform him about that.

I could not see on his radiator that there was a bottom radiator hose. I mean, I saw the upper and a "lower" raditor hose, but it was more than half way up the radiator. Is the lower-middle hose all you have to unhook and drain?

There is a drain - look for a 1-1/2" diameter access hole in the splash cover between the bumper and radiator. It is on the driver's side and is a plastic hex plug. Much easier to drain than the previous generation cars where you needed to remove the air filter box and reach down (scraping up your hands in the process...) to access the drain.

The bad news is you will get less than half of the old coolant out so you'll need to change it multiple times to purge the coolant. If it is the traditional, green, silicated coolant, you will need to change it every two years due to the silicates plating the internals of the cooling system. If it is the yellow coolant such as Prestone, I believe that is silicate free.

[MarkE]

For the record, while you can flush GREEN out of your engine, GREEN plates the cooling system with silicates. While you can then use DEXCOOL, the cooling system is still plated with the silicates and you still need to use the coolant change interval for GREEN...... unless the engine is BOILED out, GREEN permanently plates the cooling system and the GREEN coolant change interval is required.

What is your opinion of Bars Leak Head Gasket Repair? I don't want to use snake oil but if there is a remote chance that I have a blown head gasket I am looking for the lowest cost way to fix this. BTW I am in the process of drain and fill three times and the fans didn't start after 10 minutes of idle or when I turned on the AC.

[Cadillac Jim]

1) From what you tell us that the dealer told you, you do NOT have a blown head gasket. This particular dealer may, however, have a short in the fuse box.

2) For true HD problems where there is compression leakage, or oil leakage from a high-pressure oil line to the cam bearings and lifters (not the return line that drains into the crankcase), the only remedy is a TimeSert kit (or Northstar Performance studs or other time-tested insert or stud solutions) and a new head gasket. Good policy for a long term repair is two TimeSert kits and two head gaskets. But, you don't have one. Don't go there. There are several purported fixes-in-a-bottle out there, and some sodium silicate ones may hold for a day to a couple of weeks, particularly on an iron engine, but they are a poor patch, not a fix. And, sodium silicate is not good for aluminum engines. That's why they quit using it in antifreeze in 1995.

[Ranger]

No repair in a bottle will work.

Even with Dex-Cool, I would not go longer than 3 years on the coolant change.

I could not see on his radiator that there was a bottom radiator hose. I mean, I saw the upper and a "lower" raditor hose, but it was more than half way up the radiator. Is the lower-middle hose all you have to unhook and drain?

If you pull the "lower" hose to drain it you will be leaning a LOT of coolant in the radiator as you have noted by it's location. We leave enough in the motor as it is. I'd use the radiator drain in the bottom of the radiator to get as much out as you can.

[KHE]

What is your opinion of Bars Leak Head Gasket Repair? I don't want to use snake oil but if there is a remote chance that I have a blown head gasket I am looking for the lowest cost way to fix this. BTW I am in the process of drain and fill three times and the fans didn't start after 10 minutes of idle or when I turned on the AC.

Don't use it - it will not work and may plug up the system.

Where did a head gasket failure originate in this thread??? I thought you were just changing the coolant?

[MarkE]

What is your opinion of Bars Leak Head Gasket Repair? I don't want to use snake oil but if there is a remote chance that I have a blown head gasket I am looking for the lowest cost way to fix this. BTW I am in the process of drain and fill three times and the fans didn't start after 10 minutes of idle or when I turned on the AC.

Don't use it - it will not work and may plug up the system.

Where did a head gasket failure originate in this thread??? I thought you were just changing the coolant?

The head gasket failure is my worst scenario. When I got the car two weeks ago I knew it had been running hot. I changed the thermostat, water pump, and hoses hoping that will fix it. I have done the drain and fill with water twice now and brought it up to what I think is operating temp (I ran at high idle for about 10 minutes) but the fans did not come on. They don't come on when I hit the A/C button either. Do you think the overheating is due to the fans not coming on? I also have gotten a message on the dash saying low refrigerant. Is that related?

[Ranger]

Do you think the overheating is due to the fans not coming on?

No.

I also have gotten a message on the dash saying low refrigerant. Is that related?

No.

[BodybyFisher]

If you are getting LOW REFRIGERANT, your fans will not come on until 226 degrees as the AC is not working and turn off a 217

With the AC ON and functional, the fans run 100 of the time and you will not see large temp swings.

Explain what is happening, explain your how it is overheating in detail. The next time you start a thread, give ALL details, so WE can help you, leaving out details is wrong.

For example, water pumps DO NOT go bad, and will not cause overheating unless its leaking at the shaft or the body seal and leaking. Why did you replace hoses?, where they leaking?

Since this thread has NOT been discussing overheating until this point, do these things

Have you checked the cooling system AIR PURGE line (bolt with a hole in it)?

Had the system been checked to see if it holds pressure?

Has the cap been checked to see if it holds pressure?

Is the coolant at least 50% coolant to water?

Is the water pump belt good?, does the water pump belt tensioner apply pressure and does it bind?

Do the fans come on at all?, at what temp?

[MarkE]

If you are getting LOW REFRIGERANT, your fans will not come on until 226 degrees as the AC is not working and turn off a 217

With the AC ON and functional, the fans run 100 of the time and you will not see large temp swings.

Explain what is happening, explain your how it is overheating in detail. The next time you start a thread, give ALL details, so WE can help you, leaving out details is wrong.

For example, water pumps DO NOT go bad, and will not cause overheating unless its leaking at the shaft or the body seal and leaking. Why did you replace hoses?, where they leaking?

Since this thread has NOT been discussing overheating until this point, do these things

Have you checked the cooling system AIR PURGE line

Had the system been checked to see if it holds pressure?

Has the cap been checked to see if it holds pressure?

Is the coolant at least 50% coolant to water?

Is the water pump belt good?, does the water pump belt tensioner apply pressure and does it bind?

Do the fans come on at all?, at what temp?

Sorry for changing in mid stream. When I brought the car home a couple of weeks ago the temp guage would go to about the mid-way point and then would go towards the red zone for a while and then would go back to the mid point. My wife was following me and said it appeared that every once in a while it would burp out coolant. I didn't make it home without being towed because the alternator gave out (I knew it was going when i bought the car). After I replaced the alternator I have been trying to run down the cause of the temperature fluctuations. In the future if I need to change focus should I start a new thread?

[BodybyFisher]

Well yes, if its a new topic, say charging vs overheating, it makes sense to start a new thread but keep this one for now, this is a new car for you and you are new here so it makes sense to keep it together.

Check the items I noted above and put your nose in the coolant tank and see if you smell exhaust fumes,

Welcome aboard and good luck with this

[MarkE]

How should I check the air purge line. How should I pressure check the system? I did purchase a new radiator cap. The coolant was weak and green. I replaced the water pump and belt. I have been following your advice of triple drain and water and the fans have not turned on. I disconnected the negative terminal and replaced the A/C fuse. When I reconnected the battery the fan came on for a while without the car running and then quit. When it Quit one of the fan relays started to smoke! I also get a "low refrigerant" code on the drivers display on the dash.

quote name='MarkE' date='18 November 2011 - 02:10 PM' timestamp='1321647033' post='198878']

If you are getting LOW REFRIGERANT, your fans will not come on until 226 degrees as the AC is not working and turn off a 217

With the AC ON and functional, the fans run 100 of the time and you will not see large temp swings.

Explain what is happening, explain your how it is overheating in detail. The next time you start a thread, give ALL details, so WE can help you, leaving out details is wrong.

For example, water pumps DO NOT go bad, and will not cause overheating unless its leaking at the shaft or the body seal and leaking. Why did you replace hoses?, where they leaking?

Since this thread has NOT been discussing overheating until this point, do these things

Have you checked the cooling system AIR PURGE line

Had the system been checked to see if it holds pressure?

Has the cap been checked to see if it holds pressure?

Is the coolant at least 50% coolant to water?

Is the water pump belt good?, does the water pump belt tensioner apply pressure and does it bind?

Do the fans come on at all?, at what temp?

Sorry for changing in mid stream. When I brought the car home a couple of weeks ago the temp guage would go to about the mid-way point and then would go towards the red zone for a while and then would go back to the mid point. My wife was following me and said it appeared that every once in a while it would burp out coolant. I didn't make it home without being towed because the alternator gave out (I knew it was going when i bought the car). After I replaced the alternator I have been trying to run down the cause of the temperature fluctuations. In the future if I need to change focus should I start a new thread?

[Cadillac Jim]

When it "burped out coolant" did the apparent coolant come out under the car, or out the exhaust, or could your wife tell? I'm assuming that you are getting steam bubbles and coolant is coming out the overflow hose on the coolant tank, which would come out under the car on the passenger side.

Another thing to smell is the exhaust, for coolant. Start the cir first thin in the morning, let it run for a few seconds, shut it down, and walk around and see of the exhaust smells of coolant. If so, you almost certainly have head leakage. If not, and if the surge tank does hot have an exhaust smell, you are very unlikely to have compression leakage.