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No more Havoline/Texaco DEXCOOL???


wake

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What a bunch of total BS! The stupid Blazer owner admits in his post that he allowed somebody to substitute green coolant for Dexcool......THEN HAS THE NERVE TO WHINE ABOUIT IT WHEN HIS WATER PUMP SEAL TAKES A CRAP!! One reason that Dexcool is used in an engine that is validated for 300,000 miles, aside from the special corrosion inhibitor package, is the ABSENCE of silicates. Silicates are very abrasive and tend to eat water pump seals, particularly those that were not designed to withstand the abuse.

This must be what you get from listening to "expert" advice given by someone "very familiar" with your car/engine. Even the official GM fix does not revert back to the green coolant. Do you suppose there is a reason for that?

Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed.

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Ok, back to my original question...  Has the Havoline/Texaco brand of DEXCOOL disappeared???

Havolin/Texaco Dexcool was still on the shelf the last time I was at "Farm & Fleet" (last week). That's a local K-Mart/Walmart type place here in northern Ill.

Well this is frustrating...

Today I finally hit K-Mart and still can't find the Havoline/Texaco stuff... So far I've been to Kragen, Autozone, Pep-Boys, Target, Walmart, and K-Mart... NOBODY has anything other than the Prestone brand...

Now I live in a large L.A. suburb, I should be able to find this stuff somewhere... I guess the next step is going to be the GM dealer for $15/gal... :rolleyes:

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Wake, as I think about it, I don't know if I've ever seen the actual Havoline brand. All I've ever seen is the Prestone, in the silver bottle. That's what I used when I did the water pump on my Seville. 'Tis been fine so far.

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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Wake, as I think about it, I don't know if I've ever seen the actual Havoline brand. All I've ever seen is the Prestone, in the silver bottle. That's what I used when I did the water pump on my Seville. 'Tis been fine so far.

I've bought it before from Kragen when I did changed the coolant on my Corvette at the 4 year mark, so I know it at least used to be sold... That's why I thought it was odd that I couldnt' find it now...

I'll ask my GM mechanic friend if he knows anything about it's availability...

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Wake, as I think about it, I don't know if I've ever seen the actual Havoline brand.  All I've ever seen is the Prestone, in the silver bottle.  That's what I used when I did the water pump on my Seville.  'Tis been fine so far.

I've bought it before from Kragen when I did changed the coolant on my Corvette at the 4 year mark, so I know it at least used to be sold... That's why I thought it was odd that I couldnt' find it now...

I'll ask my GM mechanic friend if he knows anything about it's availability...

FINALLY!!!!

Tonight I was in Walmart and actually found some Havoline DEXCOOL so my problem is solved... I'm still scratching my head though over why it was so difficult to get my hands on this stuff...

Oh well, life is normal again... :lol:

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  • 1 month later...
What a bunch of total BS! The stupid Blazer owner admits in his post that he allowed somebody to substitute green coolant for Dexcool......THEN HAS THE NERVE TO WHINE ABOUIT IT WHEN HIS WATER PUMP SEAL TAKES A CRAP!! One reason that Dexcool is used in an engine that is validated for 300,000 miles, aside from the special corrosion inhibitor package, is the ABSENCE of silicates. Silicates are very abrasive and tend to eat water pump seals, particularly those that were not designed to withstand the abuse.

This must be what you get from listening to "expert" advice given by someone "very familiar" with your car/engine. Even the official GM fix does not revert back to the green coolant. Do you suppose there is a reason for that?

While I tend to agree with Jason and others that there is not a whole lot

wrong with Dexcool if maintained properly......it has to be said that there is something strange about a coolant that reacts negatively with cast iron engines if the coolant level is allowed to run low. This type of behaviour was not seen with the older green coolant. We (in our dealership) have also seen far more cooling sytem problems at lower kilometers since the advent of Dexcool. Remember, we don't have just one or two cars that we own.....we are working on thousands of cars a year and see all the related nonsense that has accompanied Dexcool. We often get vehicles in that are low mileage and leaking pretty much anywhere that there is a connection of some sort. The Dexcool often seems to just ooze out of connections and gaskets.

In the case of the 4.3 v-6 engines....it can get pretty nasty. For GM to blame customers because they didn't maintain the coolant level is pretty low in my

opinion. They also claim in their service bulletins that the rad cap design needs to be changed. Imagine that....maybe it was the rad cap that was causing the air in the system (if fact, this is the major cause of the air in the systems in the 4.3 engines). So whose fault would that be? The poor customer who got saddled with a poorly designed rad cap that only exacerbates the problems with Dexcool?

Ian

As far as vehicles becoming more complex and needing more maintenance....I would agree, but the manufacturers are basically attempting to brainwash their customers that the vehicles need "no maintenance". This is all in order to sell their vehicles as a "no maintenance" vehicle. Is it any wonder that people balk at doing proper maintenance, or call mechanics crooks when we attempt to get them to do some timely maintenance?

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What is the old saying,

>"If you think Education is expensive, try IGNORANCE! <"

Ah, well said Mr Scott. A classic.

I don't know, maybe I'm biased with three of my four sons in college, (the other has graduated, and is gainfully employed), but I've often said (to them) that the cost of ignorance in this country is astounding...

'93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast.

user posted image

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What is the old saying,

>"If you think Education is expensive, try IGNORANCE! <"

Ah, well said Mr Scott. A classic.

I don't know, maybe I'm biased with three of my four sons in college, (the other has graduated, and is gainfully employed), but I've often said (to them) that the cost of ignorance in this country is astounding...

Agreed.... I just told my son who goes to college in a week, to work his A** off, he is competing with the world these days...

Early on sailors navigated by the stars at night and the North star became the symbol for finding ones way home. Once you know where the Northstar is you can point your ship in the right direction to get home. So the star became a symbol for finding ones way home or more symbolically even finding ones path in life.

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Well I have used DEX-COOL in my cadi all its life and haven't had a problem. Also have a 2001 Honda CRV when i bought it I flushed the grren stuff and went too DEX-COOL and have never had a problem with it either. Honda has 78000 and cadi has 64000 MI on them. :D

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In the case of the 4.3 v-6 engines....it can get pretty nasty. For GM to blame customers because they didn't maintain the coolant level is pretty low in my

opinion.

I just can't follow that thought all the way through without stumbling on it. Engine failure caused by coolant level and failure caused by oil level are the same to me...and neither are the fault of the manufacturer...in my opinion. I wouldn't expect GM to fix my engine if I ran it low on oil, nor would I expect them to fix it if I ran it low on coolant.

I would agree, that if more thorough investigation revealed faulty OE radiator caps, then GM should be accountable for some of the liability. Has there been an official investigation (and results) disclosed from GM?

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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About a year or a year and a half ago, I started a topic on this dex-cool coolant.I explained that the stuff was doing damage to all sorts of different engines, including several GM models. The reply that i got was from someone named Guru. He said that i didnt know what i was talking about and more or less said i should just shut up ,in so many words. Several other replies showed up in my e-mail with basically the same reply. So you gentlemen can now EAT your words.

Thomas Calliham

tcllhm@aol.com

p.s. Any more replies about Dex- Cool to me are welcomed

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In the case of the 4.3 v-6 engines....it can get pretty nasty.  For GM to blame customers because they didn't maintain the coolant level is pretty low in my

opinion.

I just can't follow that thought all the way through without stumbling on it. Engine failure caused by coolant level and failure caused by oil level are the same to me...and neither are the fault of the manufacturer...in my opinion. I wouldn't expect GM to fix my engine if I ran it low on oil, nor would I expect them to fix it if I ran it low on coolant.

I would agree, that if more thorough investigation revealed faulty OE radiator caps, then GM should be accountable for some of the liability. Has there been an official investigation (and results) disclosed from GM?

Just to go off on a bit of a tangent, wouldn't it be nice if cars had a "low coolant" warning message, similar to the "low oil" message that we get?

What's another sensor? Especially if it will help a driver avoid costly repairs. I'm sure some bright engineer out there could figure out how to do this, even given the fact that measuring the amount of coolant might be difficult due to the fact that it circulates so quickly. Perhaps a sensor inside the radiator itself that would "trip" when the level of coolant drops to a certain level for a certain set temperature. Just an idea.... :blink:

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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I would also like to add this. In the mid to late 90's, I had several vehicles come into my shop with various cooling system component failures such as water pump impellers "dissolving", heater hose fittings breaking off for no appearant reason,intake manifold gaskets failing at the coolant ports on the cyl. heads,etc., etc............ with one common denominator. G.M. approved Dex-Cool coolant.!!!

Coincidence? I think not!!!

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I'm sure my 2001 has a "check coolent level" on the DIC.

2001 STS Mettalic Otter Grey, Black Leather, 213,000 kilometers - miles - ? Still running strong!

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Just to go off on a bit of a tangent, wouldn't it be nice if cars had a "low coolant" warning message, similar to the "low oil" message that we get?

Marika, this sensor exists. It's located in the pressurized surge tank on my '97.

Tom, you of course don't mention the engine models and years affected. But I know, I know, Dex-cool is the end of the world...so it doesn't matter what engine it was...or how it had been maintained...right? Engines have had cooling system maintenance requirements for a heckuva lot longer than Dex-cool has been around...but since you run a repair shop, I don't have to tell you that. For instance, if you have an Oldsmobile small block V8, especially a 307 with an aluminum intake, you know a coolant leak at the front manifold gasket is extremely common. I had to replace the seal twice on my '84. I can't blame Dex-cool because...uh...it didn't have Dex-cool. If you'll read a post on this topic from bbobynski, linked below, you'll realize that he explains the exact situation with the 4300 engines and describes in detail how the failure occured. http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...1703&hl=dexcool

I do have to say that a sheetmetal water pump impeller dissolving is a new one on me! And to go further, to blame it on COOLANT, which somehow protects the rest of the engine, which is also metal. You do know, of course, that Dex-cool is one of the friendliest coolants out there on water pump seals, because of the lack of silicates in the cooling system. It's also been the experience of many here, myself included, that a water pump on a Dex-cooled engine comes out so much easier than that on a non-Dex-cooled engine...because of corrosion of course...something that green coolant DOESN'T protect as well against. This, too, by the way, is also not the fault of the coolant, as coolant change intervals for the green stuff is clearly stated in the owner's manual.

So I will continue to fill my modern GM vehicles with Dex-cool...a coolant which has proved its existance in millions and millions of modern aluminum GM engines. If you would provide some of the details of the multitudes of problems you have seen with Dex-cool, and why you think they're attributed to Dex-cool, perhaps we can have a discussion about it.

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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  • 3 weeks later...

after reading all this boy am i confused i just bought a 1997 concours after my 1987 allante started getting coolant into the engine i think i should change antifreeze the book saysto use dexcool with bars leak gold( doesnt seem to be available except through dealer and there on strike) can i mix regular antifreeze and use bars leak pellets or no? :blink::blink:

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after reading all this boy am i confused i just bought a 1997 concours after my 1987 allante started getting coolant into the engine i think i should change antifreeze the book saysto use dexcool with bars leak gold( doesnt seem to be available except through dealer and there on strike) can i mix regular antifreeze and use bars leak pellets or no?

You can use pellets with any antifreez, check out the Walmart for bars leak. 3-6 pellets per change.

The saddest thing in life is wasted talent

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can i mix regular antifreeze and use bars leak pellets or no?

You could use regular antifreeze and the Bars Leak Gold powder (available at Wal-Mart). But if you put regular antifreeze in the system, you'll be contaminating the cooling system with silicates, and you'll have to start doing the drain/refill procedure every 2 years. Advise would be to stick to Dexcool. It's available nearly everywhere (Wal-Mart, Advance, Autozone, etc).

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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I wouldn't use the green antifreeze. Stick with the DexCool....even if you have to wait a few weeks to locate it. DexCool has a completely different corrosion inhibitor package that does not deplete over time (unlike conventional green coolant).

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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I just can't follow that thought all the way through without stumbling on it.  Engine failure caused by coolant level and failure caused by oil level are the same to me...and neither are the fault of the manufacturer...in my opinion.  I wouldn't expect GM to fix my engine if I ran it low on oil, nor would I expect them to fix it if I ran it low on coolant.

I would agree, that if more thorough investigation revealed faulty OE radiator caps, then GM should be accountable for some of the liability.  Has there been an official investigation (and results) disclosed from GM?

Two different things, really.....engine damage caused by low oil and engine/cooling system damage caused by low coolant. You don't actually see much "engine" damage when the dexcool goes nuts in the 4.3 engines. But you do see a lot of

damage to the cooling system....plugged up....no heat, some overheating of the engine in some cases.

You are really missing my point. In the old days, if you let your oil level

go low enough, you toast the engine. Nothing has changed, this will still

happen. But in the "old" days of green coolant, you could run the coolant

low and not a whole lot happens. I know this, because I've seen the results

of green coolant being run low, and "nothing" happens. And of course, I'm talking a bit low, not "one liter left in the engine". But with dexcool, and the 4.3 engine, all of a sudden, a bit low on dexcool can cause all sorts of problems.

Plus the fact that they issued a new design of rad cap for these systems certainly has to tell it's own story.

Official investigation by GM with disclosed results? Ha ha....that's a good one.

Of course they are going to defend the coolant till the bitter end. What else

could they do?

Now remember, I've seen it in action in the Northstar engines and it appears

to work reasonably well there. I'm not a total anti-Dex guy...but it certainly

isn't the great product that GM makes it out to be, and it should be changed

a lot sooner then they recommend.

Ian

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Just to go off on a bit of a tangent, wouldn't it be nice if cars had a "low coolant" warning message, similar to the "low oil" message that we get?

What's another sensor?  Especially if it will help a driver avoid costly repairs.  I'm sure some bright engineer out there could figure out how to do this, even given the fact that measuring the amount of coolant might be difficult due to the fact that it circulates so quickly.  Perhaps a sensor inside the radiator itself that would "trip" when the level of coolant drops to a certain level for a certain set temperature.  Just an idea....  :blink:

Actually, this is very common on most GM vehicles. Almost every vehicle that I can think of uses the low coolant probe....except for...guess which one doesn't use it? The 4.3 engines in Blazers and Jimmy's. Who'd a thunk it, eh?

Ian

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Now remember, I've seen it in action in the Northstar engines and it appears to work reasonably well there.  I'm not a total anti-Dex guy...but it certainly isn't the great product that GM makes it out to be, and it should be changed a lot sooner then they recommend.

Did we make a jump from an issue of running it low to an issue of too long a change interval? Do you guys see cooling system "damage" from Dexcool left in there too long? Perhaps a shorter change interval would draw more attention to the coolant? Nah...as you said, people don't change the green stuff anyway, so it probably doesn't matter. ;)

I guess I look at the neglect issue like making a comparison with a calculator and an abacus.

* Both coolants do the same thing (protect the engine). Both calculators can do simple math functions.

* Let your green coolant run low, nothing happens (in general terms). Let your Dexcool run low in an iron block engine, and rust forms. Engine damage.

* Leave your abacus out in the rain and nothing happens...no damage occurs. Leave your calculator in the rain and it's ruined.

The fans of the abacus would blame the calculator and say, "how could you claim that it's a better product? I can completely neglect my abacus and it keeps working." That would do nothing to sway the opinion of the calculator fans. They know that it might take a little extra work (keeping it out of the rain) to get a better product (performs more functions than an abacus).

To relate this back to the Dexcool, it might take a little extra work (keeping it full) to get a coolant with more lifespan (5 year/150,000 mile change intervals). At least that's how I look at it. :) I do think it's a shame that people couldn't "handle" a more advanced cooling system product. I agree that it'd be nice if the coolant could protect in its own absence. I guess the green coolant did that by plating the parts with silicates, which are obviously absent in Dexcool. The Oldsmobile diesel engine of the 1980s comes to mind here. I understand that most all of the problems (blown headgaskets most commonly) were due to owner neglect. They couldn't handle the increased demands of an advanced engine design, and the cooling system maintenance needs that it had.

By the way, I think it's complete comedy that the vehicles that have problems with Dexcool, because they've been run low, are one of the few that were never equipped with low coolant sensors. :lol:

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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Did we make a jump from an issue of running it low to an issue of too long a change interval?  Do you guys see cooling system "damage" from Dexcool left in there too long?  Perhaps a shorter change interval would draw more attention to the coolant?  Nah...as you said, people don't change the green stuff anyway, so it probably doesn't matter.  ;)

Well, you are quite clever, Jason....but while your abacus/calculator example is interesting....it doesn't really apply to the points I was making. It's not the abacus (old coolant), calculator (new coolant) that get damaged...its the cooling systems which don't appear to be represented by anything in your example. It doesn't really make much sense to most people that you would have a long life, low

maintenance (and don't be fooled, that's really what GM is selling) coolant, but now you must be ultra careful with it, a little mistake in your maintainence of the coolant (which is touted to be long life, maintenance free) and it can do awful things to the cooling system. Consumers don't buy that kind of claptrap.

As far as the shorter change interval...even on vehicles that have all aluminum engines, the dexcool exhibits very strange behaviour, like crusting and oozing

out of joints where the coolant is. In our experience, working with the vehicles day in/day out....it's better value for the customer to change the dexcool a little bit sooner then later. They often don't even change it at 5 years, but folks didn't change the old a/f every two years either.

You must get all your automotive knowledge by reading. Your paragraph on the Oldsmobile diesel engine is strange. I actually "worked" on those engines non-stop for 5 years....from the date of their inception. Their failures had nothing to do with lack of maintenance...it had everything to do with a poorly conceived and executed product. This engine was a disaster. Head gasket failures were probably the least of it's problems. Towards the end of the production life of these engines, we began to simply install rebuilt Olds gas engines in their place. The Olds gas engine was a fine motor....better then the Chev. It's diesel variant was an absolute joke and a real black mark on GM. It was good for me, lot's of work, and lot's of hands on experience tearing down and rebuilding motors.

Ian

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but now you must be ultra careful with it, a little mistake in your maintainence of the coolant (which is touted to be long life, maintenance free) and it can do awful things to the cooling system. Consumers don't buy that kind of claptrap.

True, for the coolant to do its job, it must be present in the system. I don't think either of us disagree on that. The silicated coolant plated the parts (as I understand), so if there was a lack of coolant, like it ran low, the engine was still somewhat protected. I guess that's the advantage to the green stuff. The downside is it has to be replaced every 2 years (or so) to be effective, according to most manufacturers' maintenance schedules.

So if I can buy a coolant that I can more than double the change interval with, and all I have to do is make sure I don't let it run low, that's a good compromise to me (and apparently to the millions of GM owners who have bought vehicles since 1996). That's the comparison I was trying to draw with the abacus/calculator example. If it takes a little extra work to result in a "better" product (and in the case with the coolant, I'm defining "better" as a longer service interval), that's a compromise I am willing to make. And so far, it's been a successful venture in Cadillacs I guess. Very few problems associated with Dexcool here I understand. And coming from you, it's been pretty good in the all-aluminum Northstar. What are cooling system problems that you occassionally see in Northstars, that you can attribute to Dexcool?

The ratio of my knowledge that comes from reading is most certainly higher than yours. I'm not a professional mechanic and you are. I love the Oldsmobile V-8 engine and completely agree that it's a better engine than its Chevrolet counterpart. I had two and performance-built one. The're wonderful engines. I never owned a 350 Diesel, but understand (probably from reading) that headgasket failure from corrosion was a common problem. What were some of the design failures that forced issues in the field?

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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