wake Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 Lately I've been noticing that nobody in my area carries the Havoline/Texaco brand of DEXCOOL anymore... I had to change the coolant on my Vette a couple months ago and couldn't find it then either... I had to go with the Prestone brand that says, "DEXCOOL Approved"... Last week I tried looking for DEXCOOL again I couldn't find any of the stuff I was looking for... Is there a reason the Havoline/Texaco stuff has disappeared??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 Lately I've been noticing that nobody in my area carries the Havoline/Texaco brand of DEXCOOL anymore... I had to change the coolant on my Vette a couple months ago and couldn't find it then either... I had to go with the Prestone brand that says, "DEXCOOL Approved"... Last week I tried looking for DEXCOOL again I couldn't find any of the stuff I was looking for... Is there a reason the Havoline/Texaco stuff has disappeared??? You don't say what your "area" is, so there's no way of knowing why it can't be found. From what I've read on the Internet, Dexcool is a major issue in Japanese engines and it's not recommended for use in them. Apparently, it does damage to the engines as well as seals which leads to pump failures. It's also apparently very damaging to GM vehicles and there's been consumer complaints against it. http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/gm_dexcool.html Also, a class action lawsuit again GM and Texaco over Dexcool. http://www.cwcd.com/CM/MassTorts/MassTorts5.asp If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wake Posted June 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 You don't say what your "area" is, so there's no way of knowing why it can't be found. Sorry about that, I updated my location profile, I'm in southern Kalifornia... I've heard of a few problems but mostly it seemed that the trouble came from mixing the new and old coolant types together for a long period of time... My Corvette has had DEXCOOL since 1996 (factory fill) and it's fine... My previous Vette was also a 1996 model and it never had any problems in the almost 6 years I owned it... The reason I'm looking specifically for that Havoline/Texaco brand is I don't want ot mix it with the other, "DEXCOOL approved" coolants... I did it on the Corvette only because I did a complete system flush before starting with the other Prestone stuff... I only plan on doing the drain and refill on the Caddy, so I'd rather have the original stuff if possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 There may have been a name change on the product. I found this at the Texaco website: Havoline Extended Life Anti-Freeze/Coolant Havoline Extended Life Anti-Freeze/Coolant keeps protecting for up to five years or 150,000 miles. * Havoline Extended Life Anti-Freeze/Coolant is recommended by General Motors Corporation, which has been factory filling with DEX-COOL antifreeze since 1995. * Havoline Extended Life Anti-Freeze/Coolant provides effective, long-term corrosion protection for all cooling system metals, including aluminum, and protects against winter freeze-up and summer overheating. http://www.texaco.com/texaco/search/redire...nd_coolants.htm If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 That was some interesting reading. I have some friends that'll want to read this. -kg "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 That was some interesting reading. I have some friends that'll want to read this. -kg Yep, Dex-cool has damaged a lot of engines, especially Chevy Blazers. There's a class action lawsuit brewing for anyone interested in contacting that law firm whose link I posted. I'm glad I still use the old "green stuff". If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 So I assume that if I was all freaked out over using Dexcool that it would be ok to use plain old Prestone antifreeze??? I know I'm going to be asked that question and would like to have an answer besides a should shrug. -kg "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 So I assume that if I was all freaked out over using Dexcool that it would be ok to use plain old Prestone antifreeze??? I know I'm going to be asked that question and would like to have an answer besides a should shrug. -kg I would play it safe and ask two sources: (1) an independent mechanic that you know and trust and (2) a dealership that specializes in your vehicle. Someone's got have a service bulletin regarding this problem and will be able to recommend what you can use in your particular vehicle if you don't want to or can no longer fill up with Dex-cool. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 DEX-COOL does NOT damage engines. It's something else causing damage in the engine if damage has been found. I've never seen anything that shows proof of DEX-COOL damage. http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...1703&hl=dexcool Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 DEX-COOL does NOT damage engines. It's something else causing damage in the engine if damage has been found. I've never seen anything that shows proof of DEX-COOL damage. http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...1703&hl=dexcool jadcock, I am glad you did that, this thread was so anti-dexcool, I did not want to step in. We live in a highly litigious society, a society that wants to go after big corporations. Like bbobynski said Dexcool is running in millions of vehicles without trouble. Cars today run hotter and harder and put out a fraction of the emissions of cars from the 60s and 70s. They require specific and timely maintenance. Fluids need to be checked, changed and maintained regularly. If you do not know the cooling system maintenance history of a vehicle, it is best to be conservative and change the coolant every 2 years not continue the 5 year cycle. Not even the dealer can know the maintenance history of a vehicle that was leased or traded-in. The drive it till is breaks mentality is more dangerous today than it ever was. I wonder how many of the cars that have had coolant problems received green coolant by some a-hole owner or mechanic at some point? That move immediately causes a 2 year coolant change cycle instead of the 5 year coolant change cycle. I am sure that the majority of these problems are related to improper maintenance and owner and mechanic ignorance. What is the old saying, If you think Education is expensive, try IGNORANCE! Until I see the problem occur first hand, I will never be convinced that it is a Dexcool problem. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 http://www.nbc4.tv/automotive/2369813/detail.html News article about the Dex-Cool issue. And by the way, I don't take sides in this matter. You have to read the information on BOTH sides and decide for yourself but still, you should follow my previous advice and consult with an independent mechanic that you trust as well as a dealership that specializes in your vehicle. If you're that nervous about it, have your cooling system inspected carefully for signs of trouble. I believe at least one of the class action suits is coming up at the end of this year. It's something to watch in the news. It's interesting. Glad I use the old green stuff. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 DEX-COOL does NOT damage engines. It's something else causing damage in the engine if damage has been found. I've never seen anything that shows proof of DEX-COOL damage. http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...1703&hl=dexcool http://www.geocities.com/b_gillie/dexcool_problems.html This site has links to a GM issued service bulletin about Dex-Cool and how to correct the problems associated with it. The Service bulletin is pretty long and detailed. http://www.geocities.com/b_gillie/TSB990602012.htm Apparently, GM thinks the problem is caused by allowing the Dex-Cool levels to fall too low in your system. GM also seems to think that it's a problem that only affects certain engines, Cadillac not included. But as for the original post as to what happened to Dex-Cool, it looks like it just changed names, like I previously posted. I think a lot of people are misunderstanding the idea of "maintenance free" and they think it means that you don't have to do anything to maintain your vehicle. If you're told something will last 5 years, people tend to ignore it for 5 years and I think this is the problem. Just because Dex-Cool "works as designed" for 5 years, doesn't mean you still don't crawl under the hood of your car AT LEAST once a month to check your fluid levels. Some people are just plain lazy and when it comes to car care, this laziness will come back to bite you VERY HARD, right on your *smurf* (or in your wallet) before you even know what happened. <_> If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 And by the way, I don't take sides in this matter. You have to read the information on BOTH sides and decide for yourself but still, you should follow my previous advice and consult with an independent mechanic that you trust as well as a dealership that specializes in your vehicle. Marika, I know you don't take sides, but the information presented is VERY biased -- and based on conjecture and media commentary. That last link posted described GM engineers "admitting" problems with DEX-COOL (which I found nowhere in that article). It seems that one particular example has become a scapegoat for the media regarding DEX-COOL, and that example is of particular 4.3L engines in Blazers that were ran low on coolant. All of a sudden, the poor maintenance didn't matter, and the problem was blamed on DEX-COOL. The sludge builds up on the radiator cap and DEX-COOL is blamed for the catastrophic failure. Guru (an engineer) has discussed many times why that example is the fault of the owner/operator who let the coolant get low. The media (who are, uh, not engineers) really are just spouting hard-luck stories to sell their newspapers and commentary from them doesn't even register on my radar (even if it were true). In this case, it simply references the same Blazer example that hundreds of hate websites do. The statement that all DEX-COOL cars have problems is pure baloney. In fact, we know on this site that changing a water pump on a green-coolant car can be a real pain in the butt, because the pump seems to "rust" or corrode in place, due to the green silicated coolant. This could likely be fixed with proper cooling system maintenance (just like the Blazer example could have been avoided). When I changed my water pump (on my '97 DEX-COOL'd car), it was a snap to replace and there was absolutely no corrosion at all. I feel good that the car uses organic corrosion inhibitors, and that the coolant is good for many more years than the silicated coolant is. We know here that cars with DEX-COOL are NOT inherently flawed because of the coolant, and in fact, enjoy the longer change intervals afforded by the DEX-COOL coolant. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 Apparently, GM thinks the problem is caused by allowing the Dex-Cool levels to fall too low in your system. GM also seems to think that it's a problem that only affects certain engines, Cadillac not included. I think a lot of people are misunderstanding the idea of "maintenance free" and they think it means that you don't have to do anything to maintain your vehicle. If you're told something will last 5 years, people tend to ignore it for 5 years and I think this is the problem. Just because Dex-Cool "works as designed" for 5 years, doesn't mean you still don't crawl under the hood of your car AT LEAST once a month to check your fluid levels. Some people are just plain lazy and when it comes to car care, this laziness will come back to bite you VERY HARD, right on your *smurf* (or in your wallet) before you even know what happened. <_> Yes, so whose fault is this? The fault of DEX-COOL? Not that I can see. You're right -- just because the change interval has been extended, that doesn't mean that fluid levels should be continually checked. The fact that a problem that seems to be exclusive to DEX-COOL came about only after people neglected their cars brings me to conclude only that people threw their investment away and neglected their car. It's the owner's responsibility to invest some interest in their car and check the levels of fluids...even on fluids that aren't designed to be changed for the life of the vehicle. The transmission fluid is designed not to be changed EVER, under normal circumstances. I admit that I don't often check the level of my transmission fluid. That doesn't mean that if the fluid runs low, and my transmission burns out, that I'm going to get lawyered up and sue General Motors. The fact that I didn't maintain my vehicle is NOT the fault of GM, the transmission fluid, or ANYTHING but my negligence. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 I'm actually trying to find something on the Internet that leans in favor of Dex-Cool and as far as I can see, it's a problem that's caused by the vehicle owner not maintaining their car correctly (running at low levels for extended periods of time). If this statement doesn't lean in favor of Dex-Cool and against lazy owners, I don't know what does. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 If this statement doesn't lean in favor of Dex-Cool and against lazy owners, I don't know what does. I agree...but the media certainly doesn't spin it like that. That's where I get so frustrated. If you want more positive information, poll the owners of vehicles on this site. Ask how many cars with DEX-COOL have had cooling system problems caused by DEX-COOL. I bet there are few. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 When I first bought the 1992 Cadillac, I asked the owner for all the maintenance records for the vehicle. A few records were presented but none of the records showed me what I wanted to see; when the last time the fluids were changed. I IMMEDIATELY set out to have the radiator drained and the fluids replaced, as well as the transmission and brake lines. New New New. Now I feel better knowing that I have a record of what was done to the vehicle and more importantly, when is the next time it should be done again. They don't call it "scheduled maintenance" for nothing. My parents raised me to understand that anything mechanical does not fix or maintain itself, the human element is always involved here. No matter what the advertising liars on Madison Avenue tell you, there's no such thing as a "maintenance free" anything. I also would like to poll people to find out how many have read their vehicles' owner's manual, cover to cover, at least twice. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 I IMMEDIATELY set out to have the radiator drained and the fluids replaced, as well as the transmission and brake lines. New New New. Now I feel better knowing that I have a record of what was done to the vehicle and more importantly, when is the next time it should be done again. They don't call it "scheduled maintenance" for nothing. Good move! It's hard to kill a machine when you keep it maintaned and up to date. You can never go wrong with preventative maintenance. People do tend to over emphasize the "reduced maintenance" measures on a machine (like dual-platinum plugs for example) and all of a sudden call it maintenance free. As we all know, you can't make that leap. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Hey hey....thought I was going to have to separate you two. Jadcock I see you're definitely a Dexcool guy (wonder if he owns stock in the company) just kidding. I've noticed over and over that Dexcool isn't a problem in caddys......BUT it would be interesting to hear what the tone is like in the S10 and Blazer discussion boards. Lets face it most people don't care for their cars like some of you do (some of you seem a little fanatical....you scare me) and I have to admit that I do see some "implied" warranties. Yes we've seen this same scenario played out in other ways. For example the half seal leak that appears to infect most caddys within certain model years. And what was done about that??? I would't go waving the flag yet. Just my thoughts though and very subjective. -kg 207,000 miles "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Hey hey....thought I was going to have to separate you two. Jadcock I see you're definitely a Dexcool guy (wonder if he owns stock in the company) just kidding. I've noticed over and over that Dexcool isn't a problem in caddys......BUT it would be interesting to hear what the tone is like in the S10 and Blazer discussion boards. Lets face it most people don't care for their cars like some of you do (some of you seem a little fanatical....you scare me) and I have to admit that I do see some "implied" warranties. Yes we've seen this same scenario played out in other ways. For example the half seal leak that appears to infect most caddys within certain model years. And what was done about that??? I would't go waving the flag yet. Just my thoughts though and very subjective. -kg 207,000 miles Well, we'll just have to see what comes of these class action lawsuits. "Their experts vs. Our experts". And on that note, I can fully admit that there's more "junk science" in the courtrooms than at Ringling Bros. Circus. So we'll just have to wait and see whose junk scientists are the best. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wake Posted June 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Ok, back to my original question... Has the Havoline/Texaco brand of DEXCOOL disappeared??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 (some of you seem a little fanatical....you scare me) -kg 207,000 miles kg, I prefer the term PASSIONATE instead of fanatical! LOL.... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Ok, back to my original question... Has the Havoline/Texaco brand of DEXCOOL disappeared??? Havolin/Texaco Dexcool was still on the shelf the last time I was at "Farm & Fleet" (last week). That's a local K-Mart/Walmart type place here in northern Ill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Ok, back to my original question... Has the Havoline/Texaco brand of DEXCOOL disappeared??? It looks like the name was changed. There may have been a name change on the product. I found this at the Texaco website: Havoline Extended Life Anti-Freeze/Coolant Havoline Extended Life Anti-Freeze/Coolant keeps protecting for up to five years or 150,000 miles. * Havoline Extended Life Anti-Freeze/Coolant is recommended by General Motors Corporation, which has been factory filling with DEX-COOL antifreeze since 1995. * Havoline Extended Life Anti-Freeze/Coolant provides effective, long-term corrosion protection for all cooling system metals, including aluminum, and protects against winter freeze-up and summer overheating. http://www.texaco.com/texaco/search/redire...nd_coolants.htm If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Hey hey....thought I was going to have to separate you two. Jadcock I see you're definitely a Dexcool guy (wonder if he owns stock in the company) just kidding. I've noticed over and over that Dexcool isn't a problem in caddys......BUT it would be interesting to hear what the tone is like in the S10 and Blazer discussion boards. Lets face it most people don't care for their cars like some of you do (some of you seem a little fanatical....you scare me) and I have to admit that I do see some "implied" warranties. Heh heh heh... I'm a fan of a product that works well when maintained, and in my experience, DEX-COOL works well when the level of fluid is kept up. That's just common sense to me. Even if the problem is exclusive to DEX-COOL, I just can't see myself blaming the coolant if I let my engine run low on coolant. I'm sure (but I haven't checked) that the only folks who have negative experience with DEX-COOL in Blazers were ones where the level was too low, or the concentration was compromised, or something else not related to the coolant itself. There are too many Blazers/Jimmys running around for me to believe that package "always" fails with DEX-COOL, as much of the media would have us believe. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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