BodybyFisher Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 Recently one of our members catmendo sent me an email telling me his CAT was stolen. I thought that was very odd, who would steal a CAT? Anyway, I just came upon this article: Theft of car anti-pollution device up across US Marty Boyer stands next to his sports utility vehicle in the parking lot where a catalytic converter was recently stolen off another SUV he owns, Wednesday, July 2, 2008, in Cincinnati. Al BehrmanBy KANTELE FRANKO (Associated Press Writer) From Associated Press July 06, 2008 12:55 PM EDT CINCINNATI - Marty Boyer's carefully maintained sport utility vehicle growled more like a dragster than a 2001 Honda Passport when he turned the key. "The second I turned it over, and it sounded like a tank and a Harley, I knew exactly what had occurred," said Boyer, 33, . A half-dozen office colleagues had told him about that roar after their own catalytic converters were stolen, a crime that has been rising rapidly across the country from riverside parking lots in Cincinnati to highways along the California coast. The pollution-reducing converters contain small amounts of the precious metals platinum and palladium, and they've joined copper wire and sewer grates on the long list of metal items targeted by thieves eager to cash in on climbing metal commodity prices. Converter thieves slip under vehicles with battery-powered saws, sometimes in daylight, and in a matter of minutes leave owners with shocking repair bills. The thefts were only a sporadic problem nationally until about a year ago but have grown to a near-epidemic, said Frank Scafidi, a spokesman for the National Insurance Crime Bureau. Scafidi received an overwhelming response when he recently questioned bureau agents. "Everybody was seeing reports of this, hearing reports of this, talking to the local cops - all over the country," he said. Since January, 43 converter thefts were reported in downtown Cincinnati, compared with eight during the first half of 2007, said police Lt. Mark Briede. In Arizona, the Phoenix police department's metal thefts squad has grown to accommodate a rash of thefts, including converters. Authorities in Portland, Ore. and Memphis, Tenn., also report increases. California has become a hot spot, especially in the Sacramento and San Francisco areas, and thieves sometimes steal vehicles and abandon them after removing the converters, said Lt. Chris Costigan of the California Highway Patrol. No comprehensive national totals are available on converter thefts, which are usually lumped into theft or vandalism categories. Converters have been standard equipment since the mid-1970s, and some newer vehicles have up to four. Five years ago, platinum traded for about $608 per troy ounce and palladium went for $208. Platinum now goes for $2,083 per troy ounce, and palladium draws about $468 on the New York Mercantile Exchange. A troy ounce is a a metal measurement slightly larger than a common ounce. Prices have increased with demand as use of catalytic converters grew and platinum jewelry gained in popularity, said Larry Manziek, executive director of the International Precious Metals Institute, a Pensacola, Fla.-based trade organization. In the last year, electronic trading of platinum also increased, making the metal an easier investment, he said. Scrap yards usually pay $50 to $100 per converter, but industry experts say the price varies among buyers, said Bruce Savage, a spokesman for the Institute of Scrap Recycling Industries, a trade organization. Converter replacement costs are much higher, ranging from about $200 for a universal model to $1,000 or more for one from the vehicle manufacturer. Boyer, an assistant technology director at a downtown business, paid $572 to replace his and plans to spend $360 for converter protectors. He's now so wary that he put off buying a new vehicle and instead started driving an older car to work. For car owners willing to spend extra, there are products such as the CatClamp, a tough-to-cut converter cage sold by American Welders Inc. of Toledo, starting around $225. For others, police say the best defense is a watchful eye, a bit of luck and increased awareness among law enforcement. Cincinnati auto repair shop owner Randy Rice empathizes. He fixes damaged exhaust systems - one came in with the saw still inside - and he's even had to replace 10 converters stolen from cars on his lot, at his own expense. Now he's adding a new security camera and extra lighting. Across the Ohio River in Newport and Covington, Ky., officials tightened regulations for scrap yards, requiring that they copy the driver's license of anyone trying to sell metal. Covington yards also hold metal for a month to allow stolen items to be reclaimed. That follows the advice of the scrap yard trade group, which urges its 1,600 members to document each transaction, making it easier for police to follow up. The organization also forwards theft alerts from law enforcement agencies to its members. Boyer says there's no easy solution. "I could teach my 6-year-old how to do it in probably 15 minutes," he said. "It's like stealing from somebody while their windows are down." --- On the Net: Institute of Scrap Recycling Industries: http://www.isri.org/ Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 I have been hearing more and more about that. Cat converter theft. Gasoline thefts are also rising dramatically. My van has a 34 gallon tank. It takes over $100.00 to fill it up. Which I have to do about three times a week. I am not real sure exactly WHAT I would do if I actually CAUGHT someone in my driveway, stealing my gas or my cat converter. Probably wouldn't shoot them outright, (unless they tried to jump on me), but I am pretty sure I would try to hold them at gunpoint till the cops arrived. And I would press charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flasht62@fairpoint.net Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 I have been hearing more and more about that. Cat converter theft. Gasoline thefts are also rising dramatically. My van has a 34 gallon tank. It takes over $100.00 to fill it up. Which I have to do about three times a week. I am not real sure exactly WHAT I would do if I actually CAUGHT someone in my driveway, stealing my gas or my cat converter. Probably wouldn't shoot them outright, (unless they tried to jump on me), but I am pretty sure I would try to hold them at gunpoint till the cops arrived. And I would press charges. ========================================================= better be sure about holding them for the cops before you do it some places will arrest you for kidnapping if you do that i have heard anymore its a thieves paradise it seems like no one has rights but the thieves gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 better be sure about holding them for the cops before you do it some places will arrest you for kidnapping if you do that i have heard anymore its a thieves paradise it seems like no one has rights but the thieves gordon You have a good point about holding them. I haven't HEARD about that problem in Texas, but you never know. Better to find out for sure. I will check with my local cops about that. Maybe it would be best to just shoot them when you catch them and save the expense of locking them up and then a trial. (just kidding about that last part) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 I have been hearing more and more about that. Cat converter theft. Gasoline thefts are also rising dramatically. My van has a 34 gallon tank. It takes over $100.00 to fill it up. Which I have to do about three times a week. I am not real sure exactly WHAT I would do if I actually CAUGHT someone in my driveway, stealing my gas or my cat converter. Probably wouldn't shoot them outright, (unless they tried to jump on me), but I am pretty sure I would try to hold them at gunpoint till the cops arrived. And I would press charges. ========================================================= i have heard anymore its a thieves paradise it seems like no one has rights but the thieves gordon Why is this happening? You know, I sometimes listen to a very liberal radio station and they constantly complain that our jails are loaded with a certain ethnic type, they see it as discriminatory justice. Personally, I think if 8 out of 10 crimes are committed by martians, there would be a high percentage of martians in jail, does that not make sense? Victimhood is constantly promoted. I wonder if our courts and laws are being softened due to this victimhood line of thinking. Sorry for getting off topic. I find it interesting how the laws of supply and demand operate so well. Certain metals or ITEMS become low in supply and their value or cost increases, negative spin offs like, stealing CATs due to the value of the raw materials arise. That is why car theft exists, the value of the parts far exceeds its value as a whole. Sort of a highest and best use from a monetary perspective. In the 80's for some reason, Cadillac bumpers were being stolen in New York City. They were stolen fast and quietly. Does anyone know why they were stolen? It got to the point where, people were having them welded in place. I know I'll never be a thief because I never think of things this way Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 Why is this happening? You know, I sometimes listen to a very liberal radio station and they constantly complain that our jails are loaded with a certain ethnic type, they see it as discriminatory justice. Personally, I think if 8 out of 10 crimes are committed by martians, there would be a high percentage of martians in jail, does that not make sense? Victimhood is constantly promoted. I wonder if our courts and laws are being softened due to this victimhood line thinking. Sorry for getting off topic. I find it interesting how the laws of supply and demand operate so well. Certain metals or ITEMS become low in supply and their value increases, spin offs like, stealing CATs due to the value of the raw materials arise. I know I'll never be a thief because I never think of things this way The stupid idea of VICTOMHOOD is so promoted and overused, that, YES, it HAS messed up our court system... BIG TIME. If you haven't committed a crime... you won't be in jail. (I know there are exception) But 99.9% of the time, you are in jail for something you did that was AGAINST THE LAW. And thats the way it should be. If a disproportinate number of a certain type of people are in jail... maybe it is just because a disproportinate number of a certain type of people were caught committing CRIMES. At least that is the way it seems to me. My brother is in the AC business. Home and Commercial. There are a lot of outside AC units getting stolen for the copper that is in them. Some of the construction jobs that he installs on, have to hire night guards to keep the COPPER WIRING from being stripped from the new homes. The copper in an AC unit will bring thirty to forty bucks, depending on size and model. Replacing the unit and fixing the damage done to the wiring and piping is several hundred. And up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 I am sorry, this thread is all over the place, but its all related I was with some people last night, and the fellow I met spends 60 percent of his time in China, helping them 'tailor' their cars for the US market. When he found out I was in real estate he was asking me if I knew of any private showrooms, as he was going to bring Chinese vehicles here to show off to US dealerships. Supposedly the cars are quite good, and I trust this fellows opinion, he worked for some very impressive companies and i listened to him for six hours and he was sharp about, as sharp if not sharper than anyone on this board in terms of automobile knowledge. I took a back seat, and as I was observing him and tired from the 700 miles of driving and late nights. At the end of the night I told him I was impressed with his knowledge, sincerely. Anyway, he told me that while we are blowing money in Iraq, China has been quietly and systematically kicking out butt, buying up commodities including aluminum, copper etc. Copper is going to get more and more scarce and expensive, see this article, I found it in about 10 seconds, I am sure there a a lot of site that provide more info, but I am too lazy <a href="http://elainemeinelsupkis.typepad.com/mone...-buys-enti.html" target="_blank">http://elainemeinelsupkis.typepad.com/mone...-buys-enti.html</a> He said, China will need COPPER to wire the ENTIRE country for ELECTRICITY, as most of the country is without. What he told me about CHINA is scary, and he was not optimistic. He told me NOT to move from the TV set for the OPENING and CLOSING Olympic ceremonies it will be spectacular. They are serious, they are building fast, cranes are everywhere, Cadillacs are everywhere, they prefer big chafferer driven cars. You think we are having oil and energy problems? Last week the government had ALL air conditioning turned off, and told workers to stay home because they did not have the fuel to produce electric. Any wonder OIL is so high. Just for the record, the currently high level of oil is not the Bush administrations fault, the value of the dollar might be, but I suspect its because of the freaking BILLIONS of dollars being spent abroad for fuel, the ridiculously low interest rate quandry, and the war. Reportely by 2030 China will EXCEED all of the worlds CURRENT oil demand by its self, think about that. They are building a bunch of reactors for electric. And we sit around being controlled by environmentalists. Nice of our environmentalists and legislators to keep the country nice for the Chinese when they come here and take it from us. Someone better wake up and wake up quick So China has all of our manufacturing capabilty and is dominating the worlds resources while at the same time building its military and they listen to NO ONE... They have been stealing from us for years software, los alamos.. My friend is worried, and now my fears are confirmed. Anyone care to tell me what the solution is? Education?, back to our manufacturing roots?, stronger national pride with national goals (as china is doing)? What are our children going to do, how will they compete? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 better be sure about holding them for the cops before you do it some places will arrest you for kidnapping if you do that i have heard anymore its a thieves paradise it seems like no one has rights but the thieves gordon You have a good point about holding them. I haven't HEARD about that problem in Texas, but you never know. Better to find out for sure. I have sent the question to a friend of mine in Houston. He carries a badge. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmendo Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 the person that stole my cat. converter was a very brave person ... I was sitting in the front room of my house with the front door standing wide open when it was stolen ... I live in the country and have no neighbors and if I hear a noise at night, I grab a gun and a flashlight ... almost 5 years ago, I shot somebody for breaking into my house for a third time in 6 days... I told the cops after the first break in that they needed to watch the house the next day and the cops said no way, that crooks would be back, wrong, the next day they came back and stole the washer and dryer,refrige,bed, mattress and springs,microwave, a window A/C and plenty of other stuff ... after the second break-in I went down to the sheriff dept. and told them to do their job or I would do it for them ... I heard nothing back from the police so I took my 12 gauge loaded with buck shot, my 44 SW magnum and my Grendal P-30 which is a 30 shot 22 mag. pistol ... and if you are wondering what happened to the two crooks, well the first words out of the paramedic mouth were "I see grey matter" ... Buckshot don't play and nether do I ... and I like to say " one went to jail and the other went to hell" ... by the way, the law had no problem with the shooting and I have been told great job by many of them ... The DA's office and cops, where calling me Clint Eastover since I live near Eastover ... Catmendo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 What he told me about CHINA is scary, and he was not optimistic. China is the world's largest consumer of copper: http://www.researchandmarkets.com/reportin...eport_id=367803 And did you know China consumes MORE THAN HALF of the world's cement? Anyone know where I can buy "cement futures?" Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel812 Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 This is a well known problem around Maryland and Washington DC area. I run a repair shop and we have had a few customers come by without "cats" saying it was stolen overnight. Insurance will cover this repair. The people stealing them will sell the converters for about $75-100 to have them melted down for the metals inside. Mainly this is done on SUV's since they are higher off the ground, and japanese/German cars since those converteres are worth more for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Typically they wont mess with a low car like a Cadillac. They'll go after the SUV's where you dont have to jack anything up. Just slid under cut it out. Now, they are stealing AC units from churches. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmendo Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 This is a well known problem around Maryland and Washington DC area. I run a repair shop and we have had a few customers come by without "cats" saying it was stolen overnight. Insurance will cover this repair. The people stealing them will sell the converters for about $75-100 to have them melted down for the metals inside. Mainly this is done on SUV's since they are higher off the ground, and japanese/German cars since those converteres are worth more for some reason. "Insurance will cover this repair" I don't have full coverage, so it will all be coming ouy of my pocket ... also, my car was parked in a dirt driveway and I saw no sign of jack marks in the dirt or on the car, so I don't think that they jacked it up ... on the bright side, I think that it will run even better when I get done repairing it ... because it will not have a converter when I get done ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDK Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Dear All, It might be interesting if a properly-setup Taser was relayed to activate, (repeatadly on car battery power) via a motion sensor under your SUV when in park. Couple returning from a movie... Honey, do you smell bacon under the Tahoe? But then the Attorneys would rejoice for such an interesting "Perp-as-Victum" case as well. But Judge, my poor young defendant was simply trying to retrieve his little-league's only baseball, and we know nothing about how the Sawzall got there! Add power to leave problems behind. Most braking is just - poor planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 What he told me about CHINA is scary, and he was not optimistic. China is the world's largest consumer of copper: <a href="http://www.researchandmarkets.com/reportin...eport_id=367803" target="_blank">http://www.researchandmarkets.com/reportin...eport_id=367803</a> And did you know China consumes MORE THAN HALF of the world's cement? Anyone know where I can buy "cement futures?" Regards, Warren Thanks for that info Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 better be sure about holding them for the cops before you do it some places will arrest you for kidnapping if you do that i have heard anymore its a thieves paradise it seems like no one has rights but the thieves gordon You have a good point about holding them. I haven't HEARD about that problem in Texas, but you never know. Better to find out for sure. I have sent the question to a friend of mine in Houston. He carries a badge. No such problem in Texas. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 No such problem in Texas. It's good to see Texans live in the real world. Unfortunately, I live in New York. Here, we don't put ketchup on a hot dog without first consulting a lawyer. Sigh. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 No such problem in Texas. It's good to see Texans live in the real world. Unfortunately, I live in New York. Here, we don't put ketchup on a hot dog without first consulting a lawyer. Sigh. Regards, Warren Warren, Good Lord.... ketchup on a hot dog. No wonder you need a lawyer. We use mustard on our hot dogs. Therefore no reason to consult the lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Being from Philadelphia, I use mustard on hot pretzels also... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Make mine a chili dog and don't forget the chopped onions. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Make mine a chili dog and don't forget the chopped onions. Now thats something I can agree on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Town to offer ETCHING of Catalytic Converters http://cbs11tv.com/local/catalytic.convert...e.2.765665.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Yeah, this has been going on for about two years now. The easy availability of battery operated sawzalls is really to blame, much like the inventor of the Colt revolver. And did you know China consumes MORE THAN HALF of the world's cement? Anyone know where I can buy "cement futures?" Yes, Italy. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Where is the scrap yard's responsibility???? Come on, when someone shows up with a mile of new coppre wire (obviously stolen) or a new airconditioner compressor, or some copper plumbing from a new house, SOMEBODY at the scrap yard KNOWS it is stolen goods.... it is high time the scrap yards are held accountable..... Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmendo Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 " it is high time the scrap yards are held accountable " KHE, I couldn't agree more Sir ... I feel sure, that most of the time the buyers, suspect that they are buying, somebody else's heartache/stolen goods ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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