adallak Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 "2002 CADILLAC SEVILLE SLS BEAUTIFUL CAR, EXCELLENT CONDITION. LEATHER INTERIOR, LOADED WITH EVERY OPTION AVAILABLE. HAS 102K MILES HAS A BLOWN HEAD GASKET.... THAT IS THE REASON FOR THE VERY LOW PRICE $4000 OBO " This is the first 2002 Northstar with blown head gasket I have seen. Found it in craig's list. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Hmmmmm Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Don't believe everything you read in CraigList. It could have a rod through the block, or more codes than a Bulgarian spy. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Don't believe everything you read in CraigList. It could have a rod through the block, or more codes than a Bulgarian spy. I usually do not believe when someone claims his/her car is in showroom condition, no issues whatsoever, runs and drives great and, of course, oil was changed every 3000 miles! Bottom line - it is such a great car that they have to get rid of it ASAP! I find lots of similarities in on-line car shopping and on-line dating. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Don't believe everything you read in CraigList. It could have a rod through the block, or more codes than a Bulgarian spy. I usually do not believe when someone claims his/her car is in showroom condition, no issues whatsoever, runs and drives great and, of course, oil was changed every 3000 miles! Bottom line - it is such a great car that they have to get rid of it ASAP! I find lots of similarities in on-line car shopping and on-line dating. Everyone's definition of "Showroom Condition" will be different. NO WAY is that car remotely worth $4000 with a blown head gasket.... IF it was in excellent condition, it may be worth $2500 but that's about it in my opinion. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted tcb Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 There was one heck of a good deal to be had over on the other mb. A member had a 2002 DHS in Ocean City Md, and had fought a frustrating battle with temp spikes, and finally decided to trade up to a new CTS. He was offered $2k, sight unseen, from a dealer 7 hours away on his new CTS (Cochran Cadillac, in PA). The dealer drove out and flatbedded the car home. The member offered the car to any members for the same $2k ... it might've been nice deal for someone mechanically inclined, like BBF. The DHS had 142k on her, with new Michelins ... heck, the tires alone are worth close to $800. 1989 FWD Fleetwood, Silver 1995 STS Crimson Pearl on Black leather 1997 STS Diamond White 1999 STS Crimson Pearl 2001 STS Silver 2003 STS, Crimson Pearl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Don't believe everything you read in CraigList. It could have a rod through the block, or more codes than a Bulgarian spy. I usually do not believe when someone claims his/her car is in showroom condition, no issues whatsoever, runs and drives great and, of course, oil was changed every 3000 miles! Bottom line - it is such a great car that they have to get rid of it ASAP! I find lots of similarities in on-line car shopping and on-line dating. Everyone's definition of "Showroom Condition" will be different. NO WAY is that car remotely worth $4000 with a blown head gasket.... IF it was in excellent condition, it may be worth $2500 but that's about it in my opinion. KHE, I am sure they will be lucky if someone pays $2,000 for it... Not everyone like you would mess with head gasket job on a Northstar. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Don't believe everything you read in CraigList. It could have a rod through the block, or more codes than a Bulgarian spy. I usually do not believe when someone claims his/her car is in showroom condition, no issues whatsoever, runs and drives great and, of course, oil was changed every 3000 miles! Bottom line - it is such a great car that they have to get rid of it ASAP! I find lots of similarities in on-line car shopping and on-line dating. Yep that is a current photo, NOT.... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Don't believe everything you read in CraigList. It could have a rod through the block, or more codes than a Bulgarian spy. I usually do not believe when someone claims his/her car is in showroom condition, no issues whatsoever, runs and drives great and, of course, oil was changed every 3000 miles! Bottom line - it is such a great car that they have to get rid of it ASAP! I find lots of similarities in on-line car shopping and on-line dating. Everyone's definition of "Showroom Condition" will be different. NO WAY is that car remotely worth $4000 with a blown head gasket.... IF it was in excellent condition, it may be worth $2500 but that's about it in my opinion. KHE, I am sure they will be lucky if someone pays $2,000 for it... Not everyone like you would mess with head gasket job on a Northstar. Thanks Ted for the vote of confidence, but Kevin is correct, I break out in hives everytime I think about a time sert job However, the idea of buying a good STS, ETC with blown head gaskets IS very attractive Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 "2002 CADILLAC SEVILLE SLS BEAUTIFUL CAR, EXCELLENT CONDITION. LEATHER INTERIOR, LOADED WITH EVERY OPTION AVAILABLE. HAS 102K MILES HAS A BLOWN HEAD GASKET.... THAT IS THE REASON FOR THE VERY LOW PRICE $4000 OBO " This is the first 2002 Northstar with blown head gasket I have seen. Found it in craig's list. I think there are 1 or 2 over at the other site, but very few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_k Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 I have an 02 Deville DTS (vin 9) that I bought in 2007. It had 84,000 mi and 3 months of GM warranty left on it. I immediately noticed temp spikes on long pulls (uphill or accelleration). I took it to the dealership, they diagnosed and testdrove it - said there was nothing wrong. The first trip I made across the California desert (I-15) the temp went to the last tick before "hot" and the air conditioning cycled on and off. After this the trans would not lock the TC. I took it to the dealership, they repaired the trans and again said the engine was fine. It is now out of warranty. I have installed an aux trans oil cooler, new hoses, new thermostat, new waterpump, new radiator, and an engine oil cooler. It does not use or leak coolant. It continues to have temp spikes on long pulls. They are worse with increasing outside air temps (noticable at temps above 70 deg) below 70 deg the spikes decrease to not noticable on the temp guage at 50 deg or lower. Is this the beginning of the dreaded HG problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEldo97 Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Check for combustion gas in your coolant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Temperature spikes are NOT normal. I suspect the dealer was putting you off untill the warranty ran out. They get more money form a customer pay than from a warranty job. Hopefully you have documentation that it was complained about while still under warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_k Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 I do have records of complaint while under warranty. To do the combustion gas test is it best to buy a kit and diy or take it to a radiator repair business? If I get a positive combustion gases test, is that enough to get a warranty repair or will I have to wait for a complete hg failure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEldo97 Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 I'd first ask the dealer to do the test and I'd insist on witnessing the test being performed. Combustion gas in the coolant is proof positive in and of oitself that the headgaskets have failed. Don_K I would think you may be out of luck on the warranty repair because so much time has passed. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Personally I'd do the test myself or have it done by a radiator shop (save the results). IF it comes out positive, then go in to the dealer (already knowing the results) and again complain and ask to have the test done while you watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_k Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 I plan to take the Deville to a radiator shop to do the combustion products test, will post results. I have discovered an interesting bit of info - when operating the vehicle on long uphill pulls, if I turn off the air & turn the heater to max - the temps remain normal. When operating under these conditions, a small decrease in engine load and a slight increase in cooling capacity, the system can maintain normal temps. I don't believe the slight decrease in load (turning the a/c off) is a significant factor, I believe the increase in cooling (heater on max, blowing cooling air throught the heater core) is maintaining the engine coolant temp. Does this mean if I increase cooling (larger capacity radiator) that I should solve my problem? Does anyone know a source for a larger capacity radiator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 DonK -- this sounds more like a clogged bypass than a head gasket. This is a 3/8" hose that goes from the water pump to the surge tank. You can check it by pulling off the hose from the surge tank and starting the car. If it doesn't flow freely, it's clogged. The key to this is turning the heater on, and that solving your problem. The amount of heat removed from the coolant by the heater is negligible, but the water flow through the heater core duplicates the flow path of the bypass. The entire Northstar cooling system is more than top-notch. The Northstar system was originally designed with the Autobahn in mind. Any of them can hold 120 mph all day with the A/C on, and the Sevelle/Eldorado cars with Z-rated tires and the 125 mph governor taken off can hold 140 mph all day with more power left for hills and passing. My 1997 ETC is "guaranteed" to go 150 mph with Z-rated tires and the governor off. This is the design requirement for the Northstar cooling system. Of course, there is adequate engineering reserve to allow for such things as strong tailwinds, leaves (or birds) in the radiator, very hot days, etc. If you are having a cooling system problem, it's not the design, it's a malfunction of some kind. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 I plan to take the Deville to a radiator shop to do the combustion products test, will post results. I have discovered an interesting bit of info - when operating the vehicle on long uphill pulls, if I turn off the air & turn the heater to max - the temps remain normal. When operating under these conditions, a small decrease in engine load and a slight increase in cooling capacity, the system can maintain normal temps. I don't believe the slight decrease in load (turning the a/c off) is a significant factor, I believe the increase in cooling (heater on max, blowing cooling air throught the heater core) is maintaining the engine coolant temp. Does this mean if I increase cooling (larger capacity radiator) that I should solve my problem? Does anyone know a source for a larger capacity radiator? Turning the AC off is actually WORSE. With your AC on, your cooling fans are on 100% of the time, you will have lower PEAK temps if you leave the AC on The STOCK radiator is perfectly adequate for the engine, you wont find a larger capacity radiator, fix the problem Check the water pump belt, water pump belt tensioner, stock thermostat, pressure cap, 50/50 mixture, and pressure test the cooling system. One thing, you have NOT stated what the spikes are, what temp do you hit on uphill pulls? Does the engine boil over, overheat, or do you get AC shutdown messages? Is this a digital or analog temp gage? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_k Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 The themostat is new gm, the w/p belt is new, new pressure cap, and new 50/50 dexcool. The pulleys and belt do not show signs of slippage but the tensioner is original. The temp spikes when outside air temp is above 70 deg F go to 230 to 240 deg. When OAT's are higher and the load lasts longer than 5 min or so the temps go higher. I drilled out the "bolt with a hole in it" where the bypass hose hooks up near the water pump to assure no obstruction. I just went out to confirm bypass hose water flow, I have checked it previously, there is water flow. When first started cold and rpm is high there is a strong stream from the hose, when the rpm comes down the flow decreases. I can hold the hose vertically over the tank fill neck and 90 deg from the filler neck & the fluid goes into the 2 in opening. (not a strong flow) If I put my htumb over the hose opening, blocking it, I get no buildup of pressure, when I release it, it goes back to the weak flow stream. Does this help any, is it normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Coolant flow from the purge line sounds about normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 The themostat is new gm, the w/p belt is new, new pressure cap, and new 50/50 dexcool. The pulleys and belt do not show signs of slippage but the tensioner is original. The temp spikes when outside air temp is above 70 deg F go to 230 to 240 deg. When OAT's are higher and the load lasts longer than 5 min or so the temps go higher. I drilled out the "bolt with a hole in it" where the bypass hose hooks up near the water pump to assure no obstruction. I just went out to confirm bypass hose water flow, I have checked it previously, there is water flow. When first started cold and rpm is high there is a strong stream from the hose, when the rpm comes down the flow decreases. I can hold the hose vertically over the tank fill neck and 90 deg from the filler neck & the fluid goes into the 2 in opening. (not a strong flow) If I put my htumb over the hose opening, blocking it, I get no buildup of pressure, when I release it, it goes back to the weak flow stream. Does this help any, is it normal? That sounds normal, that is the air purge line, its purpose is only to allow air to be released from the cooling system. Does the engine have a mis at all on start up? I would have the coolant checked for combustion by products. It sounds like you have looked it over closely and done some good diagnostics, you might as well check the coolant at this point. Smell your coolant and see if you smell exhaust fumes. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_k Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 Well I got the bad news today, I took the Deville to a radiator shop , they did the combustion gases test and it shows combustion products in the coolant. Their diagnosis is leaky head gasgets. I have three separate service visits to the dealership while the car was under warranty where I made the complaint concerning the temperature spikes while the engine was under load. All three times the dealership said the engine was fine and took no corrective action. The symptoms I gave them are exactly the same as the current symptoms. I am going to try to get gm to do a warranty repair, anyone have any suggestions about how to present my case to the dealership? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 Park outside and take your papers in to the Service Manager and ask him to look up the visits that you made earlier on his computer. An assumption of good faith can override denial and make going forward in a reasonable and honorable manner easy for everyone. If that doesn't do it, call GM Customer Relations. You can get them through OnStar if you have it. Keep the cool, forthright manner and thus the moral high ground. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Keep us in the loop on this... If the dealer comes through, let us all know who he is... A free plug is in order... But the opposite is equally true... If he puts it to you scream from the top of the highest hill you can find. Oh and lets be clear.. the 2000-2003 still do have head gasket failure issues.. but the likelihood of failures occurring in these years seems to be less then one tenth the rate of the 1999 and earlier cars... The "solid" cars seem to be the 2004 and newer cars... I have only ever hear of ONE of those failing and that car was be hammered on by someone who had no clue what he was doing as he tired to tune a car with a NOS fogger system designed for a different PCM and a different engine family. Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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