Ed Hall Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 I got as far as 300 miles on my trip and stopped at a gas station to fill gas. I got her all filled up and went to start the car and all it would do is crank. I poured gas down the throttle body and it would fire up but then quit. I checked the shrader valve that is on the fuel line and there is no fuel pressure. I pounded on the gas tank with a hammer but still was unsucessfull. One thing I didn't check was the fuse. I sure wish the car was at home to fix since to have a mechanic do the job, it may end up costing $300 or more. What I was thinking is buying an inline fuel pump and plumbing it in just so I can get it back home. The fuel pressure needs to be between 9-12 psi so I'm thinking that an inline fuel pump might do the trick temporarily. What do you think? I did have a friend an hour away come and pick me up but the car is still at the gas station in Morgan Hill, CA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 I thought that fuel pressure needed to be about 35 to 40 psi? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 I'd have a look at the fuse but it really sounds like the pump is shot. I don't see why you couldn't plumb in an inline pump on a temporaty basis to get the car home. Mike, it is a TBI system - the fuel pressure for TBI is the same as a carb. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 Thanks Kevin, I missed TBI systems entirely Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 Fuel pump relay? Connector to the fuel pump? The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 I agree with Kevin. I think an inline pump just might work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hall Posted October 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 I got the car towed to the mechanics thanks to a friend of mine who lives in the area that my car broke down. The mechanics won't be open until Monday so I have tomorrow to try getting the car working again. I'm going to hook up an inline pump and see if that works. I'm hoping that the 4-5 psi of a square shaped pump is enough pressure. The pump in the tank puts out between 9-12 psi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hall Posted October 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 OK, just found out that there is a possibility I cannot use an inline pump with the in-tank pump still in place. Is it possible to get a hose to snake down the gas tank where you fill up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 I don't think so. There is an anti siphon baffle in there as I recall. I have not been able to get a hose down there in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinW Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 OK, just found out that there is a possibility I cannot use an inline pump with the in-tank pump still in place. My experience suggests there shouldn't be any problem pulling fuel through an inoperative in-tank pump, at least in the case of an engine-driven mechanical pump. ___________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 OK, just found out that there is a possibility I cannot use an inline pump with the in-tank pump still in place. Is it possible to get a hose to snake down the gas tank where you fill up? If you are plumbing in an electric pump (and I expect you are), be sure the pump inlet is located lower than the bottom of the fuel tank. You want the fuel in the tank to produce a head of gravity pressure to the pump inlet. Those accessory pumps are better at developing outlet pressure that they are at pulling a vacuum (as in trying to lift fuel). Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hall Posted October 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 I ended up using a 5 gallon gas tank and ran a hose directly to the inlet on the throttle body. I didn't even try pulling with the in-tank pump in place so don't know if that would have worked or not. Anyways, I was able to drive the car to a location where I can now work on it. The engine sure didn't have much performance with 4 psi of pressure - about 60 mph was all I could go but I was able to drive the car to my destination 60 miles away. Tomorrow, I going to replace the in-tank fuel pump before I make the trip back home. I feel pretty relieved now to have the car back in my posession and at a place where I can easily work on it. Should I buy an OEM pump or one from Autozone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonie77 Posted October 2, 2006 Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 Unless you can get some current info from a caddy mechanic I'd go with the Autozone one if it's lifetime guarantee. I used an AC Delco a couple of years ago and it died at 13months. It had a 12 month warranty! I was pi$$ed! An aquaintence told me they stopped using AC's because of short life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted October 2, 2006 Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 Good old american enginuity. Hats off to you Ed. Not to dispute Zonie's word, as I have a high regard for his advice, but from what I have read about AZ, I would go with A/C Delco. Just my $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted October 2, 2006 Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 Hey may be right about the delco pump but as a rule parts store brands are a pile of **** - I can't tell you what I went through with certain parts store brand parts MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted October 2, 2006 Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 Ed, Where did you store the I.V. bottle (gas gan)? I have learned that AutoZone parts are junk unless the manufacturer is a known brand. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted October 2, 2006 Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 That's interesting about after market versus ac delco pumps. I was told the exact opposite by my last mechanic and a napa guy. The jist was that you can save some money by buying an after market pump....... if you feel like replacing it more often. Wasn't a hard decision to go with the ac delco pump and it's been working fine for a little over 3 years now I believe. Just my 2 shiney pennies worth. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hall Posted October 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 Kevin, I stored the IV bottle in the trunk of the car and I tapped into the power that runs the antenna to power the fuel pump. I bet I can drive back home with this setup but the engine really starves for fuel. I noticed while driving, the computer said I was getting between 6-10 mpg but after 60 miles of driving, the tank was down at most 2 gallons. If anthing, it was getting better fuel economy running with this setup. If I do go with an aftermarket brand of fuel pump, I'll go for the premium one with lifetime warranty. This is not a part that I want to have go out while on the road. I'll also keep my external fuel pump in the trunk of the car as backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hall Posted October 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 Any pointers on removing the gas from the tank after I get it down? With 18 gal of gas in the tank plus the weight of the tank, its going to weigh close to 200 lbs. I was thinking about using the new in-tank fuel pump to suck all the gas out. Don't know if it'll be too slow or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted October 2, 2006 Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 Ed, You could disconnect the supply line at the fuel filter and plumb in your external pump and use it to pump out the fuel. I'd be extremely cautious that no sparks were caused by powering up the pump. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hall Posted October 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 I think I'm going to buy a lifetime warranty Bosch pump. It is slightly more costly than OEM but has they stand behind their product by giving it a lifetime warranty. The in-line fuel pump might be a way to pump the gas out however, it pumps extremely slow. From the specs, it would take an hour but in real life, it would take 2-3 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thu Posted October 2, 2006 Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 When I dropped the tank out of my 93 Deville, I siphoned as much out of it as I could via the classical method. I got the rest by turning on the fuel pump relay and disconnecting the quick-disconnect at the top of the engine. Ran a hose from the fuel lines at the top of the engine into a Jerry Can. No muss, no fuss, no crawling underneath. It took all but about 1 quart of gasoline. Yes, it took quite a while for the pump to push all that gasoline out of the tank, but it was zero work for me. Perhaps if you connected your pump in a similar fashion, it would work. Does your '88 have the quick-disconnect lines at the top rear of the engine? When you drop the tank, note the condition of the electrical connections *before* you disconnect them. You may find that you have a simple problem like a broken wire or disconnected connector! I believe these connections are at the top of the tank, so you may have to drop the tank before you can see it. On my 93, if you used a shoplight judiciously, you can view and even reach the connector from underneath. 2003 Seville STS 43k miles with the Bose Sound, Navigation System, HID Headlamps, and MagneRide 1993 DeVille. Looks great inside and out! 298k miles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hall Posted October 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Thanks for the tips. I was able to disconnect the line that goes into the throttle body however, my in-tank pump was deader than a door nail. I checked the fuse as well as relay before attempting this work. I still have about 1-2 hours to complete the job. It was an extremely miserable job lowering the tank with it completely full of fuel. Even worse than removing a transmission. I took extreme precaution but even then, I still had fuel leakages to deal with. All the hose clamps were positioned the wrong way which made it very difficult to get them unloosened. And the bolts that hold up the straps were unacessible. Anyways, the tank is up again with the lines all hooked up so all that is left is putting on the straps. I hope to never have to do this job again. Tomorrow, I'll be as sore as a 90 year old. I can just imagine how much I would have had to pay if I left it for the mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 The mechanics would have found a way to drain the gas tank, say by disconnecting the filler pipe, or perhaps drilling a hole and fixing it with a metal screw and solder before putting the tank back. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Thanks for the tips. I was able to disconnect the line that goes into the throttle body however, my in-tank pump was deader than a door nail. I checked the fuse as well as relay before attempting this work. I still have about 1-2 hours to complete the job. It was an extremely miserable job lowering the tank with it completely full of fuel. Even worse than removing a transmission. I took extreme precaution but even then, I still had fuel leakages to deal with. All the hose clamps were positioned the wrong way which made it very difficult to get them unloosened. And the bolts that hold up the straps were unacessible. Anyways, the tank is up again with the lines all hooked up so all that is left is putting on the straps. I hope to never have to do this job again. Tomorrow, I'll be as sore as a 90 year old. I can just imagine how much I would have had to pay if I left it for the mechanics. The full tank of fuel definitely made the job 10 times harder than it should have been. I had to drop the tank twice on my '86 Park Avenue - once when the fuel pipes rusted through and a second time when the tank started leaking at the weld seam. Both times, I carried a 2 gallon gas can in the trunk and ran the car out of fuel and then added just enough from the can to get home. With the tank empty, it was easy to manuver into place. The hardest part was removing the short length of rubber hose from the filler pipe to the tank. drilling a hole and fixing it with a metal screw and solder before putting the tank back. That's a good way for the car to end up like Warren's last Eldorado... Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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