BodybyFisher Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 This car sucks, GM sucks, Cadillac sucks, only 90,000 miles and this happens, take this car and shove it.... they ought to make one more of these POS's and set fire to it! JUST KIDDING....who thought I was serious? Anyway, I got the feared P0717 code and the ominous SERVICE TRANSMISSION message yesterday and today, .... and my heart stopped... she shifted roughly and seemed to settle down and was OK The P0717 code appears in HISTORY.. Warren, do I recall that you cleaned the plug and its been OK? Wouldn't that be nice.... Here is the wonderful procedure that a member named Ray Greulich was kind enough to put together, do I dare attempt this? http://caddyinfo.onedgesolutions.com/howto/pc0717.htm Can I drive this without damaging anything? Are long trips out of the question? Why is it shifting harder when this code comes up? pressure? Did I actually say "I am actually looking forward to doing this job" in this thread? Someone call the guys with the white coats... http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6637 Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 I would say that it is shifting harder because the transmission has gone to an open-loop mode with no information available on input shaft speed. Wiser heads may contradict me here but I would suggest that you keep a light foot until you resolve this. Long trips should be OK as long as you stay in 4th gear a lot, and don't let it shift hard at anything except very light throttle. You may not have a problem. Check out the wiring and connections, etc., the usual drill. Those things give a lot more trouble than the 4T80E. Whether you attempt this is up to you. I don't have a place that I can use to prop the car thee feet in the air and jack down the engine and transaxle six inches to disassemble the transmission case. I also don't have the time. I would have the job done at a transmission shop that has experience with the 4T80E, or go with a remanufactured transmission. Jasper sells remanufactured transmissions for our car. With that, or another replacement transmission, a good mechanic can fix you right up in a day or two. Since this is your daughter's car, I would tread carefully before opening it up myself; you might find that you are committed to two weeks of work and her without the car. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 So much for reducing your stress load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 So much for reducing your stress load. So true....Kim Jim, this is my car not my daughters she is only 9, , I think you are thinking about Larry Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Hopefully it was just a glitch. Have you changed your fluid lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Hopefully it was just a glitch. Have you changed your fluid lately? It was changed about 50K, I was about to drop it to replace my pan gasket. If I am going to do this job, I need to do it before it gets too cold. I have to figure out how I am going to get my car up high and drop the carriage, that will be the most difficult thing for me I think... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Mike, Is that the VSS or the input speed sensor? One is easy, the other...... well, not so easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazglenn3 Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 When I had that code intermittanly on my '96 STS, when the code set the shifts became rock-hard. Clear the codes, and the tranny shifts smooth as glass again. I went through that routine for a month or so, when I decided to sell the car. It could possibly have gone that way for a long time. Charles Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 When I had that code intermittanly on my '96 STS, when the code set the shifts became rock-hard. Clear the codes, and the tranny shifts smooth as glass again. I went through that routine for a month or so, when I decided to sell the car. It could possibly have gone that way for a long time. Charles thanks, that is exactly what I am getting. I drove the car easy tonight and didn't get the code, and it ran fine.. Going to check connections Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 The P0717 code appears in HISTORY.. Warren, do I recall that you cleaned the plug and its been OK? Wouldn't that be nice.... I enjoyed the heart-stopping P056 code on May 3rd. Ah, I remember it well. I was recuperating at the time and a friend of mine unplugged and reseated the transaxle cable. It went about 6 weeks before it showed up again. I cleared the code and have enjoyed smooth shifts ever since. My understanding is that the harsh shifts are a result of the tranny going into "safe" mode wherein the hydraulic pressure is raised to the max to prevent clutch burn etc. I believe you can drive it like that for extended periods without fear of damaging the tranny. I might fear for the motor mounts though . . . . It it starts to act up again, I'll build a small amplifier like one of the other guys did. Mine will be a-c coupled and single-ended and run off the car battery however, not double-ended and d-c coupled running off of penlight cells that have to be changed every so often. "Transparent to the User" is my motto. Regards, Warren EDIT: Logan had an interesting comment on this . . . . http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/elect...?highlight=P056 . . . . see post #4. Baby has 132K on the original plug wires. Hmmn . . . . P.S. Oh yes, death to GM! There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Thanks Warren. I have to do some testing and looking around. How has yours been? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 This car sucks, GM sucks, Cadillac sucks, only 90,000 miles and this happens, take this car and shove it.... they ought to make one more of these POS's and set fire to it!.... I feel the same way about the watch I have been wearing since 1970. It's now losing 3 mintes a month! How the company stays in business is a mystery. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 This car sucks, GM sucks, Cadillac sucks, only 90,000 miles and this happens, take this car and shove it.... they ought to make one more of these POS's and set fire to it!.... I feel the same way about the watch I have been wearing since 1970. It's now losing 3 mintes a month! How the company stays in business is a mystery. They don't make things like they used to Jim... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted tcb Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 My 1971 Cutlass stalled on me at an intersection last week. It needed an ignition tunup and carb adjustments. Can't GM build a car that lasts longer than just 35 years? Hell, I see perfect examples of Datsuns, Toyotas, and Peugots all over the place. 1989 FWD Fleetwood, Silver 1995 STS Crimson Pearl on Black leather 1997 STS Diamond White 1999 STS Crimson Pearl 2001 STS Silver 2003 STS, Crimson Pearl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Mike, Is that the VSS or the input speed sensor? One is easy, the other...... well, not so easy. Ranger its the input speed sensor, not easy. I will have to rent or borrow an engine hoist. A few good things will come out of this I think, I can: Replace the axle seals side pan gasket HVAC cover I need to get the tranny rebuild manual. Thanks, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Ted TCB wrote: Can't GM build a car that lasts longer than just 35 years? Hell, I see perfect examples of Datsuns, Toyotas, and Peugots all over the place. darn that top rusted right off Ted, otherwise its a beautiful car! Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Mike, Is that the VSS or the input speed sensor? One is easy, the other...... well, not so easy. Ranger its the input speed sensor, not easy. I will have to rent or borrow an engine hoist. A few good things will come out of this I think, I can: Replace the axle seals side pan gasket HVAC cover I need to get the tranny rebuild manual. Thanks, Mike Mike, You can replace the input speed sensor without removing the powertrain from the car per Ray G's link. Removing the engine is a LOT of work - I can attest to that... Did you verify the wiring and connections? Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Yes Kevin, it appears that I can drop the carriage to expose the side pan, Ray suggests doing it with an engine hoist to guide the carriage down.. I am a little confused however, he states to put a floor jack under the right side, why do you think he says that? Is the intent to tilt the carriage down on the left side? No I have not checked the wiring yet. Its currently an intermittant code problem, I drove all over today and it came up only once.. It seems going from reverse to drive causes it. I was going to talk to you about Rays directions..what do you think? Here is the initial diagnostic: Inspect the wiring for poor electrical connections at the PCM. Inspect the wiring for poor electrical connections at the transmission 20-way connector. Inspect the wiring for poor electrical connections at the A/T ISS sensor 2-way connector. Look for the following conditions: A bent terminal A backed out terminal A damaged terminal Poor terminal tension A chafed wire When diagnosing for an intermittent short or open condition, massage the wiring harness while watching the test equipment for a change. Inspect the transmission 20-way connector for transmission fluid. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Sounds like a good plan to me. When I was going to Timesert the engine while it was in the car, I lowered the cradle to remove the balancer pulley - I used my floor jack to lower the cradle. Be sure to disconnect the suspension links for the road sensing suspension or the link will pull apart when you lower the cradle. Hopefully, it is just a bad connection or something simple and you don't need to go through the repair. Maybe you can get away with removing the three cradle bolts on the driver's side and use the floor jack under the driver's side to lower it down enough to perform the repair??? Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Mike, Is that the VSS or the input speed sensor? One is easy, the other...... well, not so easy. Ranger its the input speed sensor, not easy. I will have to rent or borrow an engine hoist. A few good things will come out of this I think, I can: Replace the axle seals side pan gasket HVAC cover I need to get the tranny rebuild manual. Thanks, Mike That's what I like about you Mike, you can always turn lemons into lemonade. Nothing wrong with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Mike, Is that the VSS or the input speed sensor? One is easy, the other...... well, not so easy. Ranger its the input speed sensor, not easy. I will have to rent or borrow an engine hoist. A few good things will come out of this I think, I can: Replace the axle seals side pan gasket HVAC cover I need to get the tranny rebuild manual. Thanks, Mike That's what I like about you Mike, you can always turn lemons into lemonade. Nothing wrong with that! Thanks Kim, hopefully this intermittant problem will stay intermittant or I will be able to fix it by checking the wiring and connections. I need to price all of the parts and tools that I would need. She seems to be running ok for the time being even while the code is present. The code does not stay current, its goes to history immediately, so its a good chance its a connection... I do not think I want to take it on long trips until I repair this. I had planned on a trip to Charlottesville, Va to see my ailing Aunt... I ordered the rebuilding manual for the tranny. Maybe dropping the carriage will not be as daunting a task as I am imagining it.... Thanks Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 You wrote: "I drove all over today and it came up only once.. It seems going from reverse to drive causes it." A bad connection at the connector on the tranny sounds logical to me being it appears during shifting from R to D. Maybe the engine moves ( shifts) somewhat going from R to D and pulls at the connector. I hope it's something simple like that, or just goes away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 You wrote: "I drove all over today and it came up only once.. It seems going from reverse to drive causes it." A bad connection at the connector on the tranny sounds logical to me being it appears during shifting from R to D. Maybe the engine moves ( shifts) somewhat going from R to D and pulls at the connector. I hope it's something simple like that, or just goes away! Yes, that is what I am thinking... we will see Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 What is bothering me about Ray's procedure to drop the carriage is that, I do not understand how he is only able to drop the left side of the carriage and leave the right side strut attached. I can't imagine how any downward movement is possible without removing the strut assembly and axle without damaging the components... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 The cradle will move at least 4" or so - maybe more. Be sure to remove the suspension position sensor links or they will separate. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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