So, the stupid STS is still acting up, making me UNSETTLED and MURDEROUS here :(

[The Fred]

The only codes I get are 042 and 044 o2 sensors sensing a lean mixture

I've replaced the FPR and now it idles real fine

But when I try to drive it the throttle response is slow and the rpm goes up real slow too.. so here I am trying to get up to 35mph and it takes a long long time there. Even if I jam down on the accelerator it just rumbles up to speed. It seems like if I put the pedal about 1/4 of the way down there is a bit of a "sweet" spot where I can get "some power"

Someone mentioned that I needed to clean the tectonic plates or what ever they are.. so I guess I will try to do that when I can get back ahold of a torque wrench. I've cleaned the heck out of the intake with intake cleaner. Would that also help clean the hembonic plate things?

The story on this was:

First problem happened when I got gas at the KWIK shop.. was low on gas put about 1/4 tank in.

Awhile later it was running just a little bit rough I'd say it was running about 90% normal.

No bogging down at all.

Then I had a no start condition until I added some gas from Conoco and after I mixed that in it cranked a little while and started up and was just perfect.

A couple of weeks later I got gas at the KWIK shop again. was very very low on gas and put about 1/2 of a tank in there. Drove up to the parking strip, went in to pay, came out and started it up - as soon as I was driving off it started acting up and bogging down quite a bit. By the time I made it 3 miles to wal-mart it was bogging down quite a bit. I went into wal-mart awhile maybe 20 minutes and when I came out it would not start.

3 hours I guess it was later I came back and it started after alot of cranking but the idle was terrible. As I was driving it home I had no power at all. Once I got it home it was hard to start and even backfired one time right when I first turned the key even before it cranked.

So here it is a couple weeks later I replaced the FPR and that fixed the idle (before it was idling as if it were missing two) and the starting. It idles great and starts real fast now.

But I've got to find out why the throttle response is so slow and why it just rumbles slowly up in rpm.. it's terrible!

[Cadillac Jim]

Sounds like water in the gas, with clogged injectors to me. I would never buy gas at that KWIK Stop again. The simlest thing to do is to put some Conoco high-test in it and keep the throttle in the sweet spot for awhile and see if it clears up. You don't want to see the FSM procedure for cleaning the gas tank, changing the in-line filter, etc.

[The Fred]

Son of a *****R****ing *****,

I knew it was that KWIK shop gas,

I knew it!

There's no way to prove it but I knew it !

Alright I'm going to put some injector cleaner in the tank and fill it with Conoco gas- I always have excellent luck with gasoline from the uptown Conoco and I tell you another thing they sell Honey Flavor cigars that are out of this world too!

Injector cleaner for the gas tank doesn't do a whole lot, right, well is it safe to put 3-4 cans of it in the tank?

Thanks for your reply you rock over there

PS: Will it help if I clean the intake again?

I just take the big giant hose off there and spray the hell out of the neck and plate with intake cleaner.. seemed to get quite a bit of gunk out the first time but not much white smoke like I usually get with cars

[epricedright]

Son of a *****R****ing *****,

I knew it was that KWIK shop gas,

I knew it!

There's no way to prove it but I knew it !

Alright I'm going to put some injector cleaner in the tank and fill it with Conoco gas- I always have excellent luck with gasoline from the uptown Conoco and I tell you another thing they sell Honey Flavor cigars that are out of this world too!

Injector cleaner for the gas tank doesn't do a whole lot, right, well is it safe to put 3-4 cans of it in the tank?

Thanks for your reply you rock over there

PS: Will it help if I clean the intake again?

I just take the big giant hose off there and spray the hell out of the neck and plate with intake cleaner.. seemed to get quite a bit of gunk out the first time but not much white smoke like I usually get with cars

It's been stated here injector cleaner can eat the varnish off your puel pump windings, resulting in pump failure, especially if any sits in there for awhile.

[The Fred]

Son of a *****R****ing *****,

I knew it was that KWIK shop gas,

I knew it!

There's no way to prove it but I knew it !

Alright I'm going to put some injector cleaner in the tank and fill it with Conoco gas- I always have excellent luck with gasoline from the uptown Conoco and I tell you another thing they sell Honey Flavor cigars that are out of this world too!

Injector cleaner for the gas tank doesn't do a whole lot, right, well is it safe to put 3-4 cans of it in the tank?

Thanks for your reply you rock over there

PS: Will it help if I clean the intake again?

I just take the big giant hose off there and spray the hell out of the neck and plate with intake cleaner.. seemed to get quite a bit of gunk out the first time but not much white smoke like I usually get with cars

It's been stated here injector cleaner can eat the varnish off your puel pump windings, resulting in pump failure, especially if it sits in there.

Great,

I guess that is out then

Thanks for telling me

[BodybyFisher]

Fred, do me a favor and try to keep your posts regarding the same problem within the same thread so that its easier to follow and so that future searchers can benefit from your experience.. Thanks, Mike

[Ranger]

Yeah, if you put 3-4 cans of that stuff in there you'll be replacing the pump and all 8 injectors. Just put some gas drier in there or a bottle of isobutyl alcohol to absorb any water that may be in there. If water is the problem, that should solve it. The other posibility (less likely) is that the tanks had a lot of sediment in them and you sucked it up. If that is the case then the in-tank filter "sock" may be clogged.

[Texas Jim]

Just a thought...... and probably shouldn't do THAT

He mentioned a SWEET SPOT where it would run kinda OK.

Has anyone thought about the catilytic converter?

Was in Montana a few years ago on vacation. The Fleetwood suddenly started losing power on hills. The harder I pushed it.... the slower it would run. After a few minutes expermentation .. I found a SWEET SPOT on it.

Going down hill I could gradually get it up to 70 or so, then going up the next hill would sometimes be down to 15 or 20 mph and I would be driving on the shoulder so I wouldn't get run over.

After replacement it ran great again.

[The Fred]

Just a thought...... and probably shouldn't do THAT

He mentioned a SWEET SPOT where it would run kinda OK.

Has anyone thought about the catilytic converter?

Was in Montana a few years ago on vacation. The Fleetwood suddenly started losing power on hills. The harder I pushed it.... the slower it would run. After a few minutes expermentation .. I found a SWEET SPOT on it.

Going down hill I could gradually get it up to 70 or so, then going up the next hill would sometimes be down to 15 or 20 mph and I would be driving on the shoulder so I wouldn't get run over.

After replacement it ran great again.

That's a real good thought- it was one of my first ideas,

But I unbolted it and the car still does it

Aint that a bummer when you have the symptoms of an ailment you ain't got

Yeah, if you put 3-4 cans of that stuff in there you'll be replacing the pump and all 8 injectors. Just put some gas drier in there or a bottle of isobutyl alcohol to absorb any water that may be in there. If water is the problem, that should solve it. The other posibility (less likely) is that the tanks had a lot of sediment in them and you sucked it up. If that is the case then the in-tank filter "sock" may be clogged.

Roger Mr. Ranger- I put some of that alcohol gas drier in and mixed it up real good.

Fred, do me a favor and try to keep your posts regarding the same problem within the same thread so that its easier to follow and so that future searchers can benefit from your experience.. Thanks, Mike

Yes Mr. Fisher- I will- good thinking.

I just don't think straight when I am so darned unsettled about something

Yeah, if you put 3-4 cans of that stuff in there you'll be replacing the pump and all 8 injectors. Just put some gas drier in there or a bottle of isobutyl alcohol to absorb any water that may be in there. If water is the problem, that should solve it. The other posibility (less likely) is that the tanks had a lot of sediment in them and you sucked it up. If that is the case then the in-tank filter "sock" may be clogged.

If that sock is clogged,

Could I possibly back flush it a little.. you know, maybe blow, or actually just basically push some fuel back through with just a little bit of air or fuel ?

Oh also,

What about that injector cleaner that you hook up to the fuel line and run the motor off of? Would that bother anything?

[KevinW]

P042 and P044 suggest there is a serious problem with the fuel delivery system; the PCM is trying to deliver extra fuel (above the ideal, in response to a low oxygen sensor voltage reading = high exhaust gas oxygen concentration = lean), and has reached an upper limit, and therefore is not able to compensate for the condition at hand. Have you not checked the fuel pressure (as was suggested previously)?

[Cadillac Jim]

One quick but not totally decisive check is to siphon out some gas from the bottom of the tank into a glass jar and look for water in it. If you see some, or if the gas is milky, siphon as much as you can out of it and get a fresh tank of high test. Even if it looks OK, you still might have water in the gas. If there is junk in there that will also bring it out.

Water in the bottom of a gas station storage tank is not that uncommon; it comes from condensation or leakage. If they let it get too low, some customers' cars will get heartburn or indigestion. Real gunk out of a gas station is rare.

Check for a clogged air cleaner element or other farkled intake air path; that will "choke" the intake and you will get the code if the PCM can't respond with enough gas. If you haven't changed the in-line gas filter, you might consider that; sometimes water can clog an in-line gas filter.

I would leave off any gas additives that you aren't absolutely sure are safe for the fuel system. High test gasoline has water removal additives that will work on small amounts of water immediately and larger amounts in time. Also, high test gas has injector cleaning additives in it. If you have a sweet spot, that means that you can probably drive it that way without danger, and since it's in the 30-35 mph range you can drive a tank out in an afternoon; I would try to let the normal gasoline additives do their job.

[The Fred]

P042 and P044 suggest there is a serious problem with the fuel delivery system; the PCM is trying to deliver extra fuel (above the ideal, in response to a low oxygen sensor voltage reading = high exhaust gas oxygen concentration = lean), and has reached an upper limit, and therefore is not able to compensate for the condition at hand. Have you not checked the fuel pressure (as was suggested previously)?

I don't know how to check it,

I did see that under the cover there was gas.. the FPR did not spew fuel when I turned on the key

One quick but not totally decisive check is to siphon out some gas from the bottom of the tank into a glass jar and look for water in it. If you see some, or if the gas is milky, siphon as much as you can out of it and get a fresh tank of high test. Even if it looks OK, you still might have water in the gas. If there is junk in there that will also bring it out.

Water in the bottom of a gas station storage tank is not that uncommon; it comes from condensation or leakage. If they let it get too low, some customers' cars will get heartburn or indigestion. Real gunk out of a gas station is rare.

Check for a clogged air cleaner element or other farkled intake air path; that will "choke" the intake and you will get the code if the PCM can't respond with enough gas. If you haven't changed the in-line gas filter, you might consider that; sometimes water can clog an in-line gas filter.

I would leave off any gas additives that you aren't absolutely sure are safe for the fuel system. High test gasoline has water removal additives that will work on small amounts of water immediately and larger amounts in time. Also, high test gas has injector cleaning additives in it. If you have a sweet spot, that means that you can probably drive it that way without danger, and since it's in the 30-35 mph range you can drive a tank out in an afternoon; I would try to let the normal gasoline additives do their job.

I changed the air filter.. old one looked OK

I changed the fuel filter.. old one was OEM

Couldn't get ahold of any money as the bank was closed yesterday but I will today and I will siphon some gasoline out and have a look.. and then I will fill it with high test Conoco

(I have not ever used anything other than High Test in there)

Any other ideas for this morning folks?

What about my idea about back flushing some fuel back into the tank?

Will that hurt the fuel pump, does it have a bypass valve for backwards flowing fuel or is that just for when the fuel line clogs?

Folks I sure do appreciate your suggestions god bless you there

Plans for today:

1. Siphon out all of the gasoline I can into a clear container.

2. Bring Conoco high test in gas can

3. Drive to Conoco on that gas

4. Fill tank with Conoco gasoline

5. Pray

6. If car is still broken, check all 8 plugs for spark

7. If car is still broken, possibly fire at it with buckshot

8. If fired at automobile with buckshot bail out of jail

9. Burn automobile at the stake for causing me to become arrested

Just Kidding MAYBE

And one other possibility,

The state fair is in town and maniacs are everywhere.

One of the maniacs might just drive over me and the car.

They've been driving out in front of me, changing lanes trying to kill me, etc etc etc. Well heck with the way this thing is running I won't be able to get out of their way so it will be a scary drive to Conoco

[Marika]

Son of a *****R****ing *****,

I knew it was that KWIK shop gas,

I knew it!

There's no way to prove it but I knew it !

Alright I'm going to put some injector cleaner in the tank and fill it with Conoco gas- I always have excellent luck with gasoline from the uptown Conoco and I tell you another thing they sell Honey Flavor cigars that are out of this world too!

Injector cleaner for the gas tank doesn't do a whole lot, right, well is it safe to put 3-4 cans of it in the tank?

Thanks for your reply you rock over there

PS: Will it help if I clean the intake again?

I just take the big giant hose off there and spray the hell out of the neck and plate with intake cleaner.. seemed to get quite a bit of gunk out the first time but not much white smoke like I usually get with cars

Sure there's a way to prove it. Depending on what state you live, contact their weights and measurements bureau and report the place. Tell them there's a strong possibility that there's water in the gas which also leads me to the possibility that their tanks are leaking so the state EPA might want to know about it too.

[The Fred]

Son of a *****R****ing *****,

I knew it was that KWIK shop gas,

I knew it!

There's no way to prove it but I knew it !

Alright I'm going to put some injector cleaner in the tank and fill it with Conoco gas- I always have excellent luck with gasoline from the uptown Conoco and I tell you another thing they sell Honey Flavor cigars that are out of this world too!

Injector cleaner for the gas tank doesn't do a whole lot, right, well is it safe to put 3-4 cans of it in the tank?

Thanks for your reply you rock over there

PS: Will it help if I clean the intake again?

I just take the big giant hose off there and spray the hell out of the neck and plate with intake cleaner.. seemed to get quite a bit of gunk out the first time but not much white smoke like I usually get with cars

Sure there's a way to prove it. Depending on what state you live, contact their weights and measurements bureau and report the place. Tell them there's a strong possibility that there's water in the gas which also leads me to the possibility that their tanks are leaking so the state EPA might want to know about it too.

Thank you for the idea Ms. Marika but I really don't want to go extorting money out of them

I know what it is to have the EPA on your *smurf* and it is awful (which I know means that I could use that to scare them into buying me, heck, a whole motor or car)

[Marika]

Son of a *****R****ing *****,

I knew it was that KWIK shop gas,

I knew it!

There's no way to prove it but I knew it !

Alright I'm going to put some injector cleaner in the tank and fill it with Conoco gas- I always have excellent luck with gasoline from the uptown Conoco and I tell you another thing they sell Honey Flavor cigars that are out of this world too!

Injector cleaner for the gas tank doesn't do a whole lot, right, well is it safe to put 3-4 cans of it in the tank?

Thanks for your reply you rock over there

PS: Will it help if I clean the intake again?

I just take the big giant hose off there and spray the hell out of the neck and plate with intake cleaner.. seemed to get quite a bit of gunk out the first time but not much white smoke like I usually get with cars

Sure there's a way to prove it. Depending on what state you live, contact their weights and measurements bureau and report the place. Tell them there's a strong possibility that there's water in the gas which also leads me to the possibility that their tanks are leaking so the state EPA might want to know about it too.

Thank you for the idea Ms. Marika but I really don't want to go extorting money out of them

I know what it is to have the EPA on your *smurf* and it is awful (which I know means that I could use that to scare them into buying me, heck, a whole motor or car)

YOU would not get a dime for your efforts in the form of extortion and in fact, extortion is illegal and you would end up in jail. However, if they are selling bad gas they should be fined for it. If they are polluting the environment with a leaking tank, it should be corrected. IF your motor or parts of it are destroyed as a result of their gas, you MIGHT be able to sue the store, but more likely because it's not their own brand, you would have to find out where they got the gas from and sue that company instead. Gas companies are insured for this sort of thing, if their gas ruins an engine. If the tank is taking on water, it's not the fault of the gas company, you would then have to sue the store owner or the company who owns the store. Just takes good legal work and lots and lots of legal discovery. This has nothing to do with "extorting money" out of anyone. You are simply using the legal system to remedy a fault that was no cause of your own and collecting a fair amount of money through the courts for damage to your property caused by others.

[The Fred]

Son of a *****R****ing *****,

I knew it was that KWIK shop gas,

I knew it!

There's no way to prove it but I knew it !

Alright I'm going to put some injector cleaner in the tank and fill it with Conoco gas- I always have excellent luck with gasoline from the uptown Conoco and I tell you another thing they sell Honey Flavor cigars that are out of this world too!

Injector cleaner for the gas tank doesn't do a whole lot, right, well is it safe to put 3-4 cans of it in the tank?

Thanks for your reply you rock over there

PS: Will it help if I clean the intake again?

I just take the big giant hose off there and spray the hell out of the neck and plate with intake cleaner.. seemed to get quite a bit of gunk out the first time but not much white smoke like I usually get with cars

Sure there's a way to prove it. Depending on what state you live, contact their weights and measurements bureau and report the place. Tell them there's a strong possibility that there's water in the gas which also leads me to the possibility that their tanks are leaking so the state EPA might want to know about it too.

Thank you for the idea Ms. Marika but I really don't want to go extorting money out of them

I know what it is to have the EPA on your *smurf* and it is awful (which I know means that I could use that to scare them into buying me, heck, a whole motor or car)

YOU would not get a dime for your efforts in the form of extortion and in fact, extortion is illegal and you would end up in jail. However, if they are selling bad gas they should be fined for it. If they are polluting the environment with a leaking tank, it should be corrected. IF your motor or parts of it are destroyed as a result of their gas, you MIGHT be able to sue the store, but more likely because it's not their own brand, you would have to find out where they got the gas from and sue that company instead. Gas companies are insured for this sort of thing, if their gas ruins an engine. If the tank is taking on water, it's not the fault of the gas company, you would then have to sue the store owner or the company who owns the store. Just takes good legal work and lots and lots of legal discovery. This has nothing to do with "extorting money" out of anyone. You are simply using the legal system to remedy a fault that was no cause of your own and collecting a fair amount of money through the courts for damage to your property caused by others.

Extortion in that I could scare them by mentioning the EPA

I don't know how I can be sure their gasoline caused it even if the gas comes out the tank watery it could have been in there already and I haven't heard anyone else complain about Kwik shop gasoline which is what they would say so as far as a lawsuit I'd be out of luck I'd spend ten times what I would get out of it I do know that if I won they'd have to pay my legal fees if that was part of my suit but if I lost I'd be out several grand see so there is nothing for me to do other than scare them by mentioning certain organizations which I would do if I was sure they caused my troubles

See

[Marika]

Son of a *****R****ing *****,

I knew it was that KWIK shop gas,

I knew it!

There's no way to prove it but I knew it !

Alright I'm going to put some injector cleaner in the tank and fill it with Conoco gas- I always have excellent luck with gasoline from the uptown Conoco and I tell you another thing they sell Honey Flavor cigars that are out of this world too!

Injector cleaner for the gas tank doesn't do a whole lot, right, well is it safe to put 3-4 cans of it in the tank?

Thanks for your reply you rock over there

PS: Will it help if I clean the intake again?

I just take the big giant hose off there and spray the hell out of the neck and plate with intake cleaner.. seemed to get quite a bit of gunk out the first time but not much white smoke like I usually get with cars

Sure there's a way to prove it. Depending on what state you live, contact their weights and measurements bureau and report the place. Tell them there's a strong possibility that there's water in the gas which also leads me to the possibility that their tanks are leaking so the state EPA might want to know about it too.

Thank you for the idea Ms. Marika but I really don't want to go extorting money out of them

I know what it is to have the EPA on your *smurf* and it is awful (which I know means that I could use that to scare them into buying me, heck, a whole motor or car)

YOU would not get a dime for your efforts in the form of extortion and in fact, extortion is illegal and you would end up in jail. However, if they are selling bad gas they should be fined for it. If they are polluting the environment with a leaking tank, it should be corrected. IF your motor or parts of it are destroyed as a result of their gas, you MIGHT be able to sue the store, but more likely because it's not their own brand, you would have to find out where they got the gas from and sue that company instead. Gas companies are insured for this sort of thing, if their gas ruins an engine. If the tank is taking on water, it's not the fault of the gas company, you would then have to sue the store owner or the company who owns the store. Just takes good legal work and lots and lots of legal discovery. This has nothing to do with "extorting money" out of anyone. You are simply using the legal system to remedy a fault that was no cause of your own and collecting a fair amount of money through the courts for damage to your property caused by others.

Extortion in that I could scare them by mentioning the EPA

I don't know how I can be sure their gasoline caused it even if the gas comes out the tank watery it could have been in there already and I haven't heard anyone else complain about Kwik shop gasoline which is what they would say so as far as a lawsuit I'd be out of luck I'd spend ten times what I would get out of it I do know that if I won they'd have to pay my legal fees if that was part of my suit but if I lost I'd be out several grand see so there is nothing for me to do other than scare them by mentioning certain organizations which I would do if I was sure they caused my troubles

See

Yes, I do see, you had a lousy attorney

[JimD]

Fred:

If you plan to visit the metropolitan Atlanta area, I would appreciate 72 hours advance notice.

[The Fred]

Fred:

If you plan to visit the metropolitan Atlanta area, I would appreciate 72 hours advance notice.

Why why

Well folks I can't get a darned thing done today because some money I thought was coming didn't work out so now I have to wait for my paycheck

Son of a *****R****ing *****,

I knew it was that KWIK shop gas,

I knew it!

There's no way to prove it but I knew it !

Alright I'm going to put some injector cleaner in the tank and fill it with Conoco gas- I always have excellent luck with gasoline from the uptown Conoco and I tell you another thing they sell Honey Flavor cigars that are out of this world too!

Injector cleaner for the gas tank doesn't do a whole lot, right, well is it safe to put 3-4 cans of it in the tank?

Thanks for your reply you rock over there

PS: Will it help if I clean the intake again?

I just take the big giant hose off there and spray the hell out of the neck and plate with intake cleaner.. seemed to get quite a bit of gunk out the first time but not much white smoke like I usually get with cars

Sure there's a way to prove it. Depending on what state you live, contact their weights and measurements bureau and report the place. Tell them there's a strong possibility that there's water in the gas which also leads me to the possibility that their tanks are leaking so the state EPA might want to know about it too.

Thank you for the idea Ms. Marika but I really don't want to go extorting money out of them

I know what it is to have the EPA on your *smurf* and it is awful (which I know means that I could use that to scare them into buying me, heck, a whole motor or car)

YOU would not get a dime for your efforts in the form of extortion and in fact, extortion is illegal and you would end up in jail. However, if they are selling bad gas they should be fined for it. If they are polluting the environment with a leaking tank, it should be corrected. IF your motor or parts of it are destroyed as a result of their gas, you MIGHT be able to sue the store, but more likely because it's not their own brand, you would have to find out where they got the gas from and sue that company instead. Gas companies are insured for this sort of thing, if their gas ruins an engine. If the tank is taking on water, it's not the fault of the gas company, you would then have to sue the store owner or the company who owns the store. Just takes good legal work and lots and lots of legal discovery. This has nothing to do with "extorting money" out of anyone. You are simply using the legal system to remedy a fault that was no cause of your own and collecting a fair amount of money through the courts for damage to your property caused by others.

Extortion in that I could scare them by mentioning the EPA

I don't know how I can be sure their gasoline caused it even if the gas comes out the tank watery it could have been in there already and I haven't heard anyone else complain about Kwik shop gasoline which is what they would say so as far as a lawsuit I'd be out of luck I'd spend ten times what I would get out of it I do know that if I won they'd have to pay my legal fees if that was part of my suit but if I lost I'd be out several grand see so there is nothing for me to do other than scare them by mentioning certain organizations which I would do if I was sure they caused my troubles

See

Yes, I do see, you had a lousy attorney

Well heck the legal fees would be way up there and if I lost the case (very likely) I'd be out a few grand on legal fees..

[Marika]

Fred:

If you plan to visit the metropolitan Atlanta area, I would appreciate 72 hours advance notice.

Why why

Well folks I can't get a darned thing done today because some money I thought was coming didn't work out so now I have to wait for my paycheck

Son of a *****R****ing *****,

I knew it was that KWIK shop gas,

I knew it!

There's no way to prove it but I knew it !

Alright I'm going to put some injector cleaner in the tank and fill it with Conoco gas- I always have excellent luck with gasoline from the uptown Conoco and I tell you another thing they sell Honey Flavor cigars that are out of this world too!

Injector cleaner for the gas tank doesn't do a whole lot, right, well is it safe to put 3-4 cans of it in the tank?

Thanks for your reply you rock over there

PS: Will it help if I clean the intake again?

I just take the big giant hose off there and spray the hell out of the neck and plate with intake cleaner.. seemed to get quite a bit of gunk out the first time but not much white smoke like I usually get with cars

Sure there's a way to prove it. Depending on what state you live, contact their weights and measurements bureau and report the place. Tell them there's a strong possibility that there's water in the gas which also leads me to the possibility that their tanks are leaking so the state EPA might want to know about it too.

Thank you for the idea Ms. Marika but I really don't want to go extorting money out of them

I know what it is to have the EPA on your *smurf* and it is awful (which I know means that I could use that to scare them into buying me, heck, a whole motor or car)

YOU would not get a dime for your efforts in the form of extortion and in fact, extortion is illegal and you would end up in jail. However, if they are selling bad gas they should be fined for it. If they are polluting the environment with a leaking tank, it should be corrected. IF your motor or parts of it are destroyed as a result of their gas, you MIGHT be able to sue the store, but more likely because it's not their own brand, you would have to find out where they got the gas from and sue that company instead. Gas companies are insured for this sort of thing, if their gas ruins an engine. If the tank is taking on water, it's not the fault of the gas company, you would then have to sue the store owner or the company who owns the store. Just takes good legal work and lots and lots of legal discovery. This has nothing to do with "extorting money" out of anyone. You are simply using the legal system to remedy a fault that was no cause of your own and collecting a fair amount of money through the courts for damage to your property caused by others.

Extortion in that I could scare them by mentioning the EPA

I don't know how I can be sure their gasoline caused it even if the gas comes out the tank watery it could have been in there already and I haven't heard anyone else complain about Kwik shop gasoline which is what they would say so as far as a lawsuit I'd be out of luck I'd spend ten times what I would get out of it I do know that if I won they'd have to pay my legal fees if that was part of my suit but if I lost I'd be out several grand see so there is nothing for me to do other than scare them by mentioning certain organizations which I would do if I was sure they caused my troubles

See

Yes, I do see, you had a lousy attorney

Well heck the legal fees would be way up there and if I lost the case (very likely) I'd be out a few grand on legal fees..

Find an attorney that will handle the case on contingency. If the attorney loses the case, he gets ZERO.

[The Fred]

Fred:

If you plan to visit the metropolitan Atlanta area, I would appreciate 72 hours advance notice.

Why why

Well folks I can't get a darned thing done today because some money I thought was coming didn't work out so now I have to wait for my paycheck

Son of a *****R****ing *****,

I knew it was that KWIK shop gas,

I knew it!

There's no way to prove it but I knew it !

Alright I'm going to put some injector cleaner in the tank and fill it with Conoco gas- I always have excellent luck with gasoline from the uptown Conoco and I tell you another thing they sell Honey Flavor cigars that are out of this world too!

Injector cleaner for the gas tank doesn't do a whole lot, right, well is it safe to put 3-4 cans of it in the tank?

Thanks for your reply you rock over there

PS: Will it help if I clean the intake again?

I just take the big giant hose off there and spray the hell out of the neck and plate with intake cleaner.. seemed to get quite a bit of gunk out the first time but not much white smoke like I usually get with cars

Sure there's a way to prove it. Depending on what state you live, contact their weights and measurements bureau and report the place. Tell them there's a strong possibility that there's water in the gas which also leads me to the possibility that their tanks are leaking so the state EPA might want to know about it too.

Thank you for the idea Ms. Marika but I really don't want to go extorting money out of them

I know what it is to have the EPA on your *smurf* and it is awful (which I know means that I could use that to scare them into buying me, heck, a whole motor or car)

YOU would not get a dime for your efforts in the form of extortion and in fact, extortion is illegal and you would end up in jail. However, if they are selling bad gas they should be fined for it. If they are polluting the environment with a leaking tank, it should be corrected. IF your motor or parts of it are destroyed as a result of their gas, you MIGHT be able to sue the store, but more likely because it's not their own brand, you would have to find out where they got the gas from and sue that company instead. Gas companies are insured for this sort of thing, if their gas ruins an engine. If the tank is taking on water, it's not the fault of the gas company, you would then have to sue the store owner or the company who owns the store. Just takes good legal work and lots and lots of legal discovery. This has nothing to do with "extorting money" out of anyone. You are simply using the legal system to remedy a fault that was no cause of your own and collecting a fair amount of money through the courts for damage to your property caused by others.

Extortion in that I could scare them by mentioning the EPA

I don't know how I can be sure their gasoline caused it even if the gas comes out the tank watery it could have been in there already and I haven't heard anyone else complain about Kwik shop gasoline which is what they would say so as far as a lawsuit I'd be out of luck I'd spend ten times what I would get out of it I do know that if I won they'd have to pay my legal fees if that was part of my suit but if I lost I'd be out several grand see so there is nothing for me to do other than scare them by mentioning certain organizations which I would do if I was sure they caused my troubles

See

Yes, I do see, you had a lousy attorney

Well heck the legal fees would be way up there and if I lost the case (very likely) I'd be out a few grand on legal fees..

Find an attorney that will handle the case on contingency. If the attorney loses the case, he gets ZERO.

I didn't know you could do that for something so inexpensive

I finally got ahold of some money so I went and filled it with Conoco gas and put some gas drier alcohol in there... seems like it's very gradually getting better. I hope.

Oh and the guy at the parts store says some other folks were having problems with Kwik Shop Gasoline. And ever since I put Conoco gas in there the 042 and 044 codes are history never current.

E034 - MAP Sensor Signal Out of Range would set off and on whilst I was driving the car today

[The Fred]

It is very gradually getting just a little better.

This is frustrating but I guess it will be ok maybe

Now it is throwing 034 sometimes and also, I hooked the exhaust back up today and it is thowing 042 again now- what is odd is 042 without 044

[Cadillac Jim]

The MAP sensor on the 1995-1999 is on top of the manifold and very easy to get to. Sometimes the connector gets a little loose and you get a MAP code. I would just push the connector on and see if the MAP code goes away. The backfire might have shaken things up, so make sure that the MAP sensor is properly inserted into the manifold.

If the good gas is clearing things up, I wouldn't worry about the 042 adn 044 codes until it stops changing. Then, if it isn't fully back to normal, or if the 042 code still comes up current occasionally, I would look at that. However, it's probably just a difference in the rate at which the injectors are clearing.

[The Fred]

I sure hope it clears up.

I love sitting in and driving this automobile,

but this slowly rumbling up to speed is a big bummer.

The cupholder made me mad earlier I was coming to a stop and the stupid thing let go of my coke can and pop went all over the seat and my shotgun *sigh*

The car hates me, it wouldn't let me in at the Kwik shop yesterday for two minutes

I might break down and go to a liarship/stealership for diag if this doesn't clear up. God knows I would never let them try to fix anything but if they diag it and I get that fixed and it is still broken I will make them reimburse me for the diag and the repair.

Also if I can find at least two other fools who had the same problem with Kwik shop gasoline I'm going to sue them in small claims

[PAUL T]

Have you checked the coils? On my 94 I got the MAP code a few times and I had a miss that I thought was bad gas. I changed the plugs, wires, FPR, fuel filter, cleaned the throttle body, EGR valve, and cleaned the phenolic plates all to no avail. Then one day the car ran like crap while I was driving on a 50 mile trip. When I got to my destination smoke was rolling out from under the hood and I could smell burnt plastic. At this point I was going to keep anyone with a fire extinguisher away so the car would burn. Anyway, it did not burn and I had it towed home, then I did a power balance test and I noticed that 2 cylinders were not firing. I checked the coils and sure enough the 2 cylinders in question were on the same coil. I spent about $45 for a new coil, switched it out and the car has run fine since then. You said that #6 cylinder was giving you fits so I would switch out that coil with a new one and see if it runs better.