So, the stupid STS is still acting up, making me UNSETTLED and MURDEROUS here :(

[The Fred]

Fred, Marika brings up a good point, you removed your intake manifold, you must have removed at least the front bank ignition wires, how did you ensure that they went back right?

I removed my intake manifold? When?

I took the engine cover off but the plug wires weren't in the way at all...

Let's wait and see what codes come back before you do anything else. Phenolic plates are not that difficult to do, I have done mine 3 times only because I thought I did not get the gaskets sealed the first and second time, but lets see what codes return.

Unless you did the idle learn procedure it may run rough for a little while until the computer relearns the driving patterns.

Went driving all over this evening 042 is current ...

Fred not to badger you, but it is frustrating not to get answers to questions that I ask, could you please look at the following and comment on your reinstallation of the intake manifold,

If I recall, your car backfired and blew out the backfire safety, am I correct? How did you fix that?

Did you reuse the intake manifold gaskets?

Were you sure the intake was fully seated?

Did you clean the mating surfaces on both the intake and head?

What was the condition of the intake gasket?

When you over tightened that intake bolt stud, could you have cracked the intake?

Thanks

All that came off was that little cosmetic cover that has the little snaps on there

It just snaps back on... I haven't had the manifold off of there

Fred, Marika brings up a good point, you removed your intake manifold, you must have removed at least the front bank ignition wires, how did you ensure that they went back right?

I do not think he removed the the whole intake manifold, just the intake cover. You do not have to remove the plug wires to take the cover off, just move them out of the way.

Right yes that's right

Fred I'll give you $500 for your 94 sts as I see it in the pictures you posted.....engine problems included. From the sound of things you could really use it. And I'm on a mission to get my 94 to 300,000 miles in salt country.

I could sell the seats for that, $500 is meaningless to me and even if I was desperate for money I would not ever sell something out of desperation.

How are the ignition wires?

You changed the plugs if I recall right? If you did, are they AC's? Did you gap them? If I were you I would pull the plugs and check for cracked porcelain, look close

Yes - the front ones - I believe they are delco

Gapped to I believe it was .50

Yes the FPR is under the cover. Yes there can be a vacuum leak in the gasket if it is not seated good or broken. I am not sure about the backfire safety.

I am suspecting a vacuum leak or a shorted wire under the cover. I had a bad boot on the vacuum hose near the throttle body. I had to buy the whole vacuum assembly just to get the boot. He cleaned the throttle body, if I remember right, and you have to move the vacuum hoses to get to it, one could have come loose without him knowing it.

Is the gasket the black hard plastic type thing under the engine cover?

[PAUL T]

Yes the black plastic thing is the gasket, it has a thin ribbon like material that runs around the top of it to seal the gap between the gasket and cover, if I remember right.

In my book there are two things that cause the 042:

1.) There is an oxygen sensor circuit fault giving a false lean indication.

or

2.) When the air fuel ratio is actually lean due to a vacuum leak or fuel control system fault.

[BodybyFisher]

So Fred, based on what Paul has said, you should look for a vacuum leak from the cover where you found the FPR, a cracked vacuum hose, a cracked intake, an intake manifold gasket leak, look at the vacuum hoses around the throttle body that Paul mentioned above someplace for leaks.

Also, don't discount the vacuum brake booster, they can leak also. Lift the hood, and take your time looking at every vacuum hose, connection etc.

Also how is your air conditioning system is it coming out of the correct vents, etc?

Does your parking brake pop off? I am asking because I want to eliminate a leak in the vacuum supply to the cabin area.

Also did you remove the throttle body? I think Paul mentioned the possiblity above..

There is a technique where you spray water around the gasket mating surfaces, the fluid gets sucked in and momentarily stops the vacuum leak and the engine will react by running smoother, maybe someone can elaborate on that...... I am not sure if the intake manifold gaskets can be reached on the NS to perform this test. But it might work around the throttle body.

Once we eliminate the possibility of a vacuum leak causing a lean condition, we can move on to the O2 sensor causing it. Because of your engines roughness, its sounding like a vacuum leak to me... What do you guys think?

[Ed Hall]

There is a technique where you spray water around the gasket mating surfaces, the fluid gets sucked in and momentarily stops the vacuum leak and the engine will react by running smoother, maybe someone can elaborate on that...... I am not sure if the intake manifold gaskets can be reached on the NS to perform this test. But it might work around the throttle body.

You can also use starting fluid or propane. The engine will start to rev up if there is a leak.

[The Fred]

Thanks for the ideas folks.. I have to drive my father to the doctor this morning but when I get back I will have a looksee.

Sorry about all the questions - I am new to the Northstar over here.

[BodybyFisher]

There is a technique where you spray water around the gasket mating surfaces, the fluid gets sucked in and momentarily stops the vacuum leak and the engine will react by running smoother, maybe someone can elaborate on that...... I am not sure if the intake manifold gaskets can be reached on the NS to perform this test. But it might work around the throttle body.

You can also use starting fluid or propane. The engine will start to rev up if there is a leak.

That is what I was thinking about Ed! Thanks

Fred, PLEASE do not bring starting fluid or propane around your car, DO NOT, I say DO NOT use starting fluid or propane, OMG I don't want to be reading about you blowing a hole in Kansas, you might kill Toto!

(PS for your info, I wouldn't do it either! )

[The Fred]

There is a technique where you spray water around the gasket mating surfaces, the fluid gets sucked in and momentarily stops the vacuum leak and the engine will react by running smoother, maybe someone can elaborate on that...... I am not sure if the intake manifold gaskets can be reached on the NS to perform this test. But it might work around the throttle body.

You can also use starting fluid or propane. The engine will start to rev up if there is a leak.

That is what I was thinking about Ed! Thanks

Fred, PLEASE do not bring starting fluid or propane around your car, DO NOT, I say DO NOT use starting fluid or propane, OMG I don't want to be reading about you blowing a hole in Kansas, you might kill Toto!

(PS for your info, I wouldn't do it either! )

I was thinking maybe I would use intake cleaner.

It would make the motor slow down if it sucked in any of it.

And Kansas IS a hole.

Actually we do have alot of good people here.

Well most of the good ones are over 50 and I like people over 50.

Met one the other day who is only 23 but a hell of a businessman - go figure.

[BodybyFisher]

Check for the obvious first, then we will talk about the pyrotechnics!

I wouldnt say that, I have friends in Overland. I kind of like Kansas and have been there about 5 times.

[The Fred]

I wish I could do it now but by the time I got into some work clothes it'd be time to leave *sigh*

I just thought of a something- the connector under the engine cover might have gotten some gasoline in it..

Could I use some intake cleaner and then some wire drier or alcohol to calm that down?

Also I will clean the battery today

And I haven't heard any hissing but I will thoroughly investigate

[BodybyFisher]

Don't spray intake cleaner indiscrimately, we have seen engines HYDOLOCKED from it, see photo, a rod came through the block because of upper engine cleaner pooling in the intake......

You can buy electrical contact cleaner use that, it dries very quickly, its flamable so put away the cigar...

[The Fred]

Well it did alright on the way to Wichita.. still the same rough

I cancelled my diag appt with the local dealership in favor of an appt with Donovans in Wichita - they have a Cadillac Northstar Guru Man there

My father claims that replacing the front plugs only would throw things out of balance I say if they fire at the right time and the right heat a plug is a plug and I can't get to the back ones any way

I'm going to go out and check the thing out once it cools down a bit

[The Fred]

You know, the more I think about it the more I suspect what that one gentleman had mentioned.. I bet the FPR was bad, gasoline got into that connector under there and ...

Yep that must be it I hope.

[The Fred]

Well my sister came by and she wants me to go and hear a blues band this evening and I am too tired but don't wanna to disappoint her so I have to go and it might be enjoyable but as I was backing out the driveway I sort of lost power brakes for a second

Now I am back to thinking it is a vacuum leak

I hope I get a chance to fool with it this evening

I got the things I need to clean the battery and another torque wrench and some wire drier and some electrical connector cleaner and some battery cleaner to disolve corrosion and some battery grease and all sorts of useful things I needed.

[epricedright]

Well my sister came by and she wants me to go and hear a blues band this evening and I am too tired but don't wanna to disappoint her so I have to go and it might be enjoyable but as I was backing out the driveway I sort of lost power brakes for a second

Now I am back to thinking it is a vacuum leak

I hope I get a chance to fool with it this evening

I got the things I need to clean the battery and another torque wrench and some wire drier and some electrical connector cleaner and some battery cleaner to disolve corrosion and some battery grease and all sorts of useful things I needed.

I'm thinking vacuum too. Arm and Hammer baking soda and a little water, with your old tooth brush works great for battery corrosion. The left overs will clear up fridge odor as well.

[The Fred]

Good idea - I will have to do it in the morning, just got in and it's 2 30

Another never ending day. It is a good thing I don't have a normal persons job or I'd never get ANYTHING done *sigh*

And, since I was going to work on the car, it's raining.

[The Fred]

Well another theory emerges .. heh

I started it up and sprayed something everywhere I suspected a vacuum leak - no change in idle so I don't know what to think

Maybe my power brakes were stiff because of the way the motor is running and maybe there isn't a vacuum leak afterall *shrug*

I have the cover off and I notice that gasoline is all over the injector connectors (that is my new theory) (it looks as if the new FPR is fine and alright though, this probably is from before) so I am trying to figure out how that black piece comes off.

It lifts out easily on the pass side and the injectors come up with it but on the drivers side it is hanging up for some reason (On the drivers side towards the front of the car)

[The Fred]

Ok alright I got it to come up so that I could clean the injector connectors and all of the other ones,

That little black box directly in front of the FPR (towards the front of the car) what is that thing and why does it have a nipple looking thing like a hose should go on when it just sits there in airspace with nothing around>

Also who does the fpr have the same type of a thing that looks like a hose ought to be on it, I remember someone said it works with vacuum one way or another

[BodybyFisher]

Well my sister came by and she wants me to go and hear a blues band this evening and I am too tired but don't wanna to disappoint her so I have to go and it might be enjoyable but as I was backing out the driveway I sort of lost power brakes for a second

Now I am back to thinking it is a vacuum leak

I hope I get a chance to fool with it this evening

I got the things I need to clean the battery and another torque wrench and some wire drier and some electrical connector cleaner and some battery cleaner to disolve corrosion and some battery grease and all sorts of useful things I needed.

Please explain what you mean by "but as I was backing out the driveway I sort of lost power brakes for a second", this could be related to a VACUUM leak if it is related to the power booster! Explain what you meant..

Ok alright I got it to come up so that I could clean the injector connectors and all of the other ones,

That little black box directly in front of the FPR (towards the front of the car) what is that thing and why does it have a nipple looking thing like a hose should go on when it just sits there in airspace with nothing around>

Also who does the fpr have the same type of a thing that looks like a hose ought to be on it, I remember someone said it works with vacuum one way or another

The FPR and the MAP sit in vacuum filled area so no hose is necessary... I think that box you are talking about is the MAP.. How do you think the injectors are wet with gas? That is very odd. Have you tried turning on the key with the top off and looking for leaks when the fuel system is pressurized...

[epricedright]

It sounds like you have a vacuum leak. Check all your vacuum lines for cracks or leaks, or a hose disconnected even.

[The Fred]

Agreed,

I put it back together and it still runs like a worhtless pile of **** over here,

Power brakes acting up again makes me suspicious as ****

I sprayed everything I could see where a vacuum leak could occur and found nothing (especially around the cover gasket)

I got to sweat and waste money for nothing and that makes me mad. If I could afford to I'd send the car straight to hell right now.

Eh, but I can't afford to

Well my sister came by and she wants me to go and hear a blues band this evening and I am too tired but don't wanna to disappoint her so I have to go and it might be enjoyable but as I was backing out the driveway I sort of lost power brakes for a second

Now I am back to thinking it is a vacuum leak

I hope I get a chance to fool with it this evening

I got the things I need to clean the battery and another torque wrench and some wire drier and some electrical connector cleaner and some battery cleaner to disolve corrosion and some battery grease and all sorts of useful things I needed.

Please explain what you mean by "but as I was backing out the driveway I sort of lost power brakes for a second", this could be related to a VACUUM leak if it is related to the power booster! Explain what you meant..

Ok alright I got it to come up so that I could clean the injector connectors and all of the other ones,

That little black box directly in front of the FPR (towards the front of the car) what is that thing and why does it have a nipple looking thing like a hose should go on when it just sits there in airspace with nothing around>

Also who does the fpr have the same type of a thing that looks like a hose ought to be on it, I remember someone said it works with vacuum one way or another

The FPR and the MAP sit in vacuum filled area so no hose is necessary... I think that box you are talking about is the MAP.. How do you think the injectors are wet with gas? That is very odd. Have you tried turning on the key with the top off and looking for leaks when the fuel system is pressurized...

The old FPR went bad, I think, there was gas all over under the cover.

I have tried turning the key to look for fuel leaks and I didn't see any.

I don't hear a hissing sound and that is very confusing

Is the vacuum leak causing a couple injectors not to get any fuel and is that why I can take off #2 and #1 wire without changing the idle at all?

[epricedright]

Also who does the fpr have the same type of a thing that looks like a hose ought to be on it, I remember someone said it works with vacuum one way or another

Mike, does the Northstar FPR not have a vacuum line attached to it like my 4.9 does? To check my FPR, you disconnect the vacuum line from FPR, and if the FPR leaks gas, then it's bad. If his is like mine, then maybe he has a vacuum hose missing or disconnected that goes to the FPR.

[BodybyFisher]

Kim not on the 94, the FPR is in the intake directly affected by engine vacuum, so no vacuum source hose is needed

[epricedright]

Kim not on the 94, the FPR is in the intake directly affected by engine vacuum, so no vacuum source hose is needed

Oh, OK.

I forget what all has been suggested and/or tried, but could it be leaking or clogged injectors. I'm thinking there's a vacuum issue as well given the braking problems he's now having.

Fred, have you been sober (for the most part ) while working on your Caddy?

[BodybyFisher]

what bothers me is that he is getting a lean condition indicating its starving for fuel or there is a vacuum leak. He is having starting problems, have we ruled out whether or not this is a fuel pump problem? Fred do you have a fuel pressure tester? Can someone tell Fred where the fuel pressure tap is on this year car? We should eliminate a fuel pressure problem before we move forward AND the cause of the wet injectors needs to be eliminated. I need to find diagrams of this engine for my files..

[Ranger]

I don'y know where the pressure tap is on that year but it should be easy to find. Just look for what appears to be a tire valve cap on the fuel rail.