jhall Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Ahh yes, Scotty's remarks bring back memories...... The thought of having finished my engine project..........feels great every time I get in, crank it up and know I don't have a car payment. I had the rare Luxury of working on the car from about January '05 and finished just about the time the weather got really hot. Of course, luxury is a relative term since I had to drop and buy another Deville to keep the wife happy. Would I do it again? I think so. If my 2002 popped a head gasket, I'd know pretty much what to do and the effort required. Of course, much of the specific detailed knowledge was provided by the great guys on this board. I don't think I would have tried the repairs if these guys weren't around! Search the archives under jhall if you like. Pictures of some of the work on the '97 Deville start sometime around the end of January '05. JBellELDO - Keep in mind that you basically sent yourself to school on this one. OK, so it cost you a few bucks and you ran out of time to do everything, but I'd be willing to bet it will help you in the future. Considering the time frame, you did a heck of a job in a short amount of time with little resources - just what the military is looking for in a leader. Good luck with school! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Considering the time frame, you did a heck of a job in a short amount of time with little resources - just what the military is looking for in a leader. Good luck with school! That's exactly what I was thinking jhall. He just grabbed the bull by the horns. Not exactly a traditional or conventional tactic......just what the military wants. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurlee Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Jon: I was following your progress and in my book you did a great job. Your attitude and courage should serve you well. Congratulations. Scott 1996 El Dorado 2006 STS 2000 Corvette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 What you did was Herculean. Given the complexity of this engine and the advanced technique of timeserting, to successfully get the engine running in such a short period of time is outstanding. This is not an easy project at all and I would hesitate doing it myself. You first came to the board 11/9 and diagnosed till 11/22, you began the job 12/30 and got it running on 1/9. You will always be enshrined here as the member who did the head gasket on his NS in 9 days! Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Just remember, in the school of hard knocks, the test comes before the lesson, and tuition can be expensive, but the lessons are never forgotten. Hand salute! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBellELDO Posted January 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Thank you all for your support, constructive criticizim and better-than-expert advice. I would not have been able to pull this off without this forum and all of you who make it what it is. I want to let you know that I shared this forum with my father who has been pacient enough to let me take up the entire garage for almost two weeks while every morning scraping his windows off wondering if I'd ever get that motor back in my car! To say the least, he is awe-struck at the task I took on; as am I. Anyway, I'm sure you're wondering what has come of this job? Well.... SHE PURRS! Leaked like a sive for a few days, tightened a few hoses and she's nearly dry! I thank God everyday for keeping me strong, because God knows I was frusturated, to put it nicely. I like to think of my grandfather looking down on me and sayin, "Thats my grandson, never giving up till the job's done." The last car he bought before he passed away a few years back was an Eldorado. I can't help but feel a strong bond with him. So all is well, no new problems and the temp stays near 205 in town, 196 on the highway. Not to bring the cheerful goodtimes mood down, but there are still some persistent problems that surface occasionally. The transmission shifts hard on occasion when the check engine soon light is on, its on for 4 codes, the trans pressure sensor is causing it to shift hard. Just wondering what to do about this and if it is a problem to focus on. Also, I was at a drive through today and I noticed a sweet smell. Pulled up the coolant temp and saw it was at 221. This is the highest I've seen it since the job. Coolant level is normal, if not high actually... It is not the first time I've smelled coolant. I smell coolant everytime the temp goes above 210-212 when I'm sitting at a stop light or idling for a while. Is this normal? Well, I'm satisfied. Thanks to all of you, and my good friend Kyle who helped me only because he wanted to be able to say he took a motor out of a Cadillac! Couldn't have done it without you! I feel like I won a beauty pageant...haha! Oh, and I want world peace! -Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 So you did not take her to dealership? Good job! Your grandpa would be proud of you. Looks like you have an external leak when the coolant is hot. Are you sure the mix is 50/50? When it happens just open the hood, increse RPMs manually to some 2000 and watch and smell under the hood for small leaks and sweet smoke. The good thing is that the new head gsket is fine, the other flows may be corrected later. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Congratulations on a job well done. I'm quite sure your grandfather is smiling and you stepped up a notch in your fathers eyes. I agree with adallak. You have a hose clamp somewhere that is a tad loose. Keep looking, you'll find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIMDTS Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Good Job Glad to see your efforts paid off. It's not that easy of a job to do. Considering you do not do these all the time. I know a few mechanics at the dealers who can do a head gasket time sert job in 2 days (16 hours)but they have all the tools and parts at hand & have done many of them. All in all you did great. Good LuckJim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBellELDO Posted January 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Are you sure the mix is 50/50? No, I'm not sure it is...in fact I really think it isn't. I'll check it and refill accordingly. Umm...also, just in the last two days when I start the car occasioanlly, it chimes at me and the dash reads STOP ENGINE - OIL PRESSURE LOW. If I press the accelerator a little, it goes away. Idle is somewhere around 650rpm's at start up. This doesn't happen every time I start the car, but it's freaking me out a tad. Oil is topped off, the ground under car is completely dry. Oil pump? Hope not... -Jon PS. Ill post some pics soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 If I were you I would change the oil and filter as soon as possible, in case some filings got into the oiling system. Use 10W30. How did you handle the oil cooler that I think was damaged? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBellELDO Posted January 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 I removed the oil cooler and spliced the lines back together. I changed the oil after I was done with the job but I didn't change the filter. I'll take care of it next friday when I get back home. -Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 The gerotor type oil pumps used in the Northstar are bulletproof. You could have a piece pf debris plugging up the relief valve or a bad sending unit. THe easiest thing to do would be to temporarly plumb in a gage and if the engine has adequate oil pressure, then replace the sending unit. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBellELDO Posted January 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 THe easiest thing to do would be to temporarly plumb in a gage and if the engine has adequate oil pressure, then replace the sending unit. Plumb in a gage? Can I go to an auto parts store and ask for an oil pressure gage? Or what am I looking for and how does it work? -Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 You now know the Northstar more intimately than most of us but, as I recall, the oil pump is driven by pressure fit off the crankshaft dampener (Not sure I am using the right word here). It requires something in the neighborhood of 325 lb/ft of torque. Did you remove that? If it is not torqued properly, my understanding is the pump will slip and oil pressure will drop. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhall Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 JBellELDO, Confirm the crank bolt is tight. Torque should be 37 lb ft (yes, thirty seven) PLUS an additional rotation of 120 degrees (the arms inside the balancer wheel are conveniently located at 120 intervals). If the oil pump is slipping at idle, the oil pressure will be pretty bad at faster RPM (i.e. won't increase to specified PSI). Pressure at idle (at operating temp) is 5 PSI minimum. Minimum pressure at 2000 RPM (at operating temperature) is 35 PSI. Since you've already spliced the oil cooler line, this might be an easy spot to insert a T fitting with a gauge. Keep us posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBellELDO Posted January 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 I will check the crank bolt this weekend, I'm at the academy until I get out for my monthly drill this weekend. New problem (it never seems to end!). You know that coolant smell I get after the motor gets warm...well I think I found the general area its coming from. There is a pretty heavy leak somewhere on the right side of the motor towads the center. I noticed a dinner plate size puddle of coolant after a few hours of sitting with the car off. The only things I can think of in that area are those metal coolant lines that run along the right head...but when I had the motor out, those looked flawless...Possibly leaking from the head? Anyway, I'm kinda worried because come friday, I make a 240 mile trip back up to Iowa; then I can take a look at it and attempt to repair it too... -Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 I will check the crank bolt this weekend, I'm at the academy until I get out for my monthly drill this weekend. New problem (it never seems to end!). You know that coolant smell I get after the motor gets warm...well I think I found the general area its coming from. There is a pretty heavy leak somewhere on the right side of the motor towads the center. I noticed a dinner plate size puddle of coolant after a few hours of sitting with the car off. The only things I can think of in that area are those metal coolant lines that run along the right head...but when I had the motor out, those looked flawless...Possibly leaking from the head? Anyway, I'm kinda worried because come friday, I make a 240 mile trip back up to Iowa; then I can take a look at it and attempt to repair it too... -Jon Jon, I was going to suggest that you check out the heater core. The originals are plastic and have plastic nipples. If you had the heater hoses off, then there is an excellent chance that you have a cracked heater core nipple. The anti freeze that you saw could have easily come from that area. Changing the heater core is actually an easy job in these vehicles! It would be a cake walk for you after your recent engine repair. Be sure to get a replacement core that has NO plastic in it's construction! I bought mine from AutoZone for less than $30.00. Install time was around 2 hours. Good Luck, Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Britt, if you go to page 5 of this thread you will see that Jon did break off the heater core nipples, I am not sure if he replaced the heater core or not, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Britt, if you go to page 5 of this thread you will see that Jon did break off the heater core nipples, I am not sure if he replaced the heater core or not, Mike Oops! I missed that one. My bad! Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdictas Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Jon, I noticed in your earlier post, you mentioned the transmission shifts hard on occasions. (The transmission shifts hard on occasion when the check engine soon light is on, its on for 4 codes, the trans pressure sensor is causing it to shift hard. Just wondering what to do about this and if it is a problem to focus on.) You mentioned that the check engine light comes on occasionally and that 4 codes are displayed. Could you please tell us what those code numbers are. By any chance was there a P0717 code present? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBellELDO Posted January 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 cdictas: I will post codes soon, I have to get out to my car-if tomorrow isnt a busy day I'll do it then! navion: It is possible that its the hoses at the heater core...as anyone who has replaced a heater core knows, those nipples are not exactally 'easy access'. I may not have tightened one enough and it may have slipped off a little or may not be tightend enough. I say this because my heat is very inconsistent. One question, would no freon in the AC system cause the heater system to malfunction? Or when I did the heater core, I had to disconnect the programmer and programmer arm...I don't know if it got installed exactally the same as it came out...This comes to mind because there is a little threaded metal rod with a snap connector that is threaded onto that rod's inch of threads on the end. The snap part connects to an arm on the programer...If I threaded it on too far or not far enough, the unit may read out of range or incorrectly, right? If you have any idea what I'm talking about, please chime in... Think thats it for now. Love you guys....not like that... -Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 No, A/C system low freon will not affect heat. There is a proceedure to install the actuator control arm. If you did it wrong, it may well affect the heat. The proceedure is in the FSM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBellELDO Posted January 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 No, A/C system low freon will not affect heat. There is a proceedure to install the actuator control arm. If you did it wrong, it may well affect the heat. The proceedure is in the FSM. Ya, that caught my eye in there....maybe I should take a look at that. Hmmm. Well, I didn't figure I was done with this thing yet. -Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 cdictas: I will post codes soon, I have to get out to my car-if tomorrow isnt a busy day I'll do it then! navion: It is possible that its the hoses at the heater core...as anyone who has replaced a heater core knows, those nipples are not exactally 'easy access'. I may not have tightened one enough and it may have slipped off a little or may not be tightend enough. I say this because my heat is very inconsistent. One question, would no freon in the AC system cause the heater system to malfunction? Or when I did the heater core, I had to disconnect the programmer and programmer arm...I don't know if it got installed exactally the same as it came out...This comes to mind because there is a little threaded metal rod with a snap connector that is threaded onto that rod's inch of threads on the end. The snap part connects to an arm on the programer...If I threaded it on too far or not far enough, the unit may read out of range or incorrectly, right? If you have any idea what I'm talking about, please chime in... Think thats it for now. Love you guys....not like that... -Jon Let me chime in. LOL Set the climate control to one of two extremal settings (60 or 90 deg.) Get access to the programmer by removing the glove box. You will see a door, which closes or opens comletely depending on the temp. settings. You can say, close the door and snap the arm (or open the door comletely and snap the arm on). The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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