Goodbye and Thanks

[newbold1]

Thank you to everyone for all the help you have given me over the years. AND... thanks so much Bruce for this site! I have saved a ton of money with the help that all of you have provided to me when my cars have needed some TLC.

However, after the transaxle problem that I had with my 2004 CTS and the length of time it took to finally resolve it, I have decided to move on to something else. In the 10 months that I owned it I have needed service for the following things:

Leaking Center Tail Light

Fuel Vapor Leak

Noisy Transaxle --- Required Replacement --- Took Many Months to Convince Cadillac that the Transaxle was the problem.

PCM Recall

Steering Linkage - Washer Made From Wrong Material Recall

Air Bag Recall

I reached the point where I am almost obsessively waiting for the next problem to develop.

So... today I traded the car for a 2005 BMW 330Ci Convertible. Driving in downtown Nashville, TN this evening with the top down my wife and I noticed people were really checking it out and some were actually shouting out to us about how good it looked. I just hope I have better luck with it than I was having with my CTS.

Here is a picture...

[newbold1]

Here is another with the top down...

[bigjayzway]

You will be back!!!!! We all come back, cause you will soon realize......NOTHING beats, or compares to the ride of a CADDY!

[Regis]

newbold1,

I don't blame you one bit for trying something else. After all the bs you had to endure after buying a brand new car..... I'm sure I would have done the same thing. It's one thing to have problems when one buys used but an entirely different story if buying new. Afterall I'm sure you didn't pay a "This car may have problems after the sale" price. I'm all about Buy American but there comes a point and you've reached it. I wish these dealers/service centers would clean up there act. I see that as being the real weak link in GM perception. Good luck with your beemer. Looks real sharp.

[Scotty]

Good Luck that is a great looking car. The Ultimate Driving Machine

[adallak]

Good luck with the new ride. Looks nice! Let us know how that little beauty performes.

[Scotty]

newbold1,

I don't blame you one bit for trying something else.  After all the bs you had to endure after buying a brand new car..... I'm sure I would have done the same thing.  It's one thing to have problems when one buys used but an entirely different story if buying new.  Afterall I'm sure you didn't pay a "This car may have problems after the sale" price.  I'm all about Buy American but there comes a point and you've reached it.  I wish these dealers/service centers would clean up there act.  I see that as being the real weak link in GM perception.  Good luck with your beemer.  Looks real sharp.

Ditto, service is their Achilles Heel and they need to strongarm their service into being partners and to be sensitive to new car purchasers and to be knowledgable about defects such as rear ends and wheel hop etc.....when the customer is MORE knowledgable than the service personel that is a serious problem, to treat customers like they are stupid is a mistake, all customers are NOT the same

[KHE]

Be sure to keep us posted on the BWM's service history/reliability and also your dealer experience.

If you think Cadillac parts are expensive, wait until you need to buy parts for a BMW.....

[newbold1]

Thanks everyone.

The BMW comes with 48 mo. / 50K bumper to bumper which can be upgraded to 7 years / 100K miles for $2,111. I haven't bought the extended warranty just yet but I think that I probably will do so. BMW pays for all scheduled maintenance for 4 years. That was a surprise. So, I won't be paying for oil changes, air filters, etc. For about $350 they offered a plan to repair 5 occurrences of paint dings / chips. A repair to a panel is counted one occurrence. Kind of nice because often when you get that first door ding you just let it go. Now when that happens I can just bring it in and let them deal with fixing it.

In a way its wierd to be driving a BMW. I have been a die-hard Cadillac fan since I was a kid. It seemed to take me forever to finally reach the point where I could buy a brand new one. Then, when I finally got there, the car let me down in a big way. In retrospect I now wish I had just shelled out the cash to fix up my 1996 SLS. Although it was nearly 9 years old it was still a great car. But, at the time I thought that using that money toward buying a new car with a warranty would be the smarter investment.

On a positive note... the BMW handles like a dream. The family and I took a drive with the top down from Nashville, TN to Bowling Green, KY and back. What a fun car to drive. The engine is so quiet and responsive. One thing I like is that the car doesn't seem to hunt for the right gear. My CTS seemed to jump up and down between gears like mad when I drove in slow traffic.

Well... I don't want to knock Cadillac. My SLS was a great car. Maybe I just had back luck and ended up with a lemon CTS. However, I've heard that a lot of people have had trouble with the transaxles in the CTS and SRX but some seem to be just fine. Hopefully, Cadillac will work this out. If they lost me as a customer when I had always dreamed of owning a new Cadillac I can just imagine what may happen to them (and GM in general) when it comes to consumers that have no particular loyalty to one brand vs. another.

[Randy_W]

Brand loyalty goes WAAAAAAAAAAAY past one bad car, kept for less than a year! You do realize that BMW used only GM transmissions for thier 5 spd automatic even though GM just recently started to use it themselves. I don't know about the 6 spd a/t , I haven't looked into that. BMW also has had axle problems on the few models that have enough torque to hurt the rear. They are nice cars, but they also have thier issues. Of course a convertible is fun to drive, but in no way compares to a 4 dr. sedan. So if you wanted a convertible, a 4 dr anything wasn't going to work. The BMW converts have had trouble with high speed wind noise and leaks at the seal areas, (so do most other convertible). If you're happy with the Bimmer, then on a personal level, that's what matters. Have you asked to have your pay check converted to Euros? Maybe Marks?

[Bruce Nunnally]

Hope the 330 works out well.

Cadillac showed a CTS convertible, or at least rumored one, but have not heard much on it lately.

[cardio-doc]

Wish I knew where that CTS went. I'd be interested!

best of luck,

~Doc

[newbold1]

My 2004 CTS is currently sitting on the BMW of Nashville lot located on Armory Drive. For me, BMW is an unknown as far as how customer service is concerned. But... after playing games with GM for 3+ months over the transmission, I am ready to try something else.

True, the BMW transmissions were GM ones but on the 330 my understanding is that stopped being the case as of the 2005 model year. And... guess what... I did some research on some BMW boards and found out that the 2003 - 2004 models had slipping transmission problems. The joke was that they called the transmission a "Slip-tronic" rather than "Steptronic" which is the real name. Everyone seemed to agree that the problem had been identified and resolved in late 2004 and 2005 models haven't developed any known transmission issues. So... I think I may be in good shape in that area.

[JasonA]

Interesting thing...my folks looked at an SRX as a replacement for their Grand Cherokee that they may end up just keeping. After he got done with a BMW dealer, he said he almost put the $55k down on a new X5. He said the near $60k SRX didn't even compare to it. The X5 was the smoothest vehicle he's ever driven. And he said that after driving a new SRX and new STS (which he hated). Mom and dad both liked the SRX, but weren't impressed with the interior at all. Despite the common perception that they're "overpriced German cars", he said the Bimmer had a much higher value to them than the Cadillac did, considering a similar sticker price (both were V8, AWD models) and the quality of the ride and interior materials. Their only problem is you apparently can't tow a BMW X5 all four wheels down, even with transmission pumps or adapters, etc. He's still looking into it. Although they plan right now to keep their Jeep (which is an excellent tow vehicle), if they find out how they can tow an X5, I believe they'd own one in a heartbeat, they liked it that much.

[newbold1]

My wife wants an SUV and had been tossing around the idea of buying a Grand Cherokee or the BMW X3 (she is not as interested in the X5 due to price and size). Its a tough decision because for about $41.5K you can get the Cherokee loaded to the hilt with the 5.7 V8 Hemi that can tow just about anything. The X3 will run about $48K and the best you can get is a 3.0 inline 6 cyl. The Cherokee can tow 7,200 lbs while the X3 is limited to 3,500 lbs. The loaded cherokee is has a surprisingly luxurious interior. Maybe not as nice as the BMW but it was nicer than the SRX. Another consideration is that the BMW has a 48mo / 50K mile warranty while the Jeep only has 36mo / 36K miles. And with the BMW you get free maintenance for 4 years. The X3 handled better than the Cherokee but not by much.

I don't know what we will end up doing. I think dollar for dollar we are leaning toward the Jeep. The only hesitation we have is in the question of reliability. We just don't know whether the Jeep will hold up as well over the long haul. My wife tends to keep her vehicles for a long time. 5-7 years is not unusual for her.

In any case, first we need to "recover" from the purchase of the 330Ci. It stickers at $49K and I barely broke even on the trade-in value of my CTS.

[justgreat]

just for the record: the cts does NOT have a transaxle, neither does your 3 series...it has a transmission. jackg 90seville 97k

[JasonA]

Newbold, regarding the Jeep:

We've owned 5 Jeeps over time, and have taken them all off-road. We took one on a few Jeep Jamborees. They're serious off-road vehicles, moreso than most other SUVs out there. I don't question the reliability of Jeeps at all. Our '89 Cherokee pulled a WAY overloaded 6500-lb travel trailer from CA to MI one summer in the early 1990s when we moved east. We also had an '88 Cherokee Chief, also with the 4.0L engine. Both went over 100k miles, the '88 had about 160k when we sold it. We had a '96 Grand with the 318 and pulled an even larger 24' travel trailer with it. That was the one that we also took off-road a lot. Also had an '03 Liberty for a short time, and now they have the '05 with the Hemi. Reliability is not an issue with Jeeps...they've been really tough for us.

The problems with the 2005 are with the MDS I think. The Hemi has a Multi Displacement System that cuts the engine to 4 cylinders under light load. You shouldn't feel that transition, but I think you do. My parents have complained about a surging or hesitation in the engine. It's very light, and under light throttle, but it's there. Many Hemis he drove didn't do that at all. They also have the same problem with some of the 300Cs I understand. I think it will just require some more engine tuning, and a PCM update.

They also had a vibration/drone in theirs from day one and it turned out to be the rear differential. Dejavu to you CTS owners. The rear diff was replaced and the problem has been corrected.

They bought a loaded 5.7 Limited, and it's an awfully nice vehicle. It rides extremely well and is very capable off-road. I'm not overly impressed with the quality of the interior materials. Everything else on it seems to be real nice. As you say, the X3 really doesn't even compete. And the X5 really only competes on price. They're really two different vehicles that may inappropriately be compared to each other sometimes. Of course the X5 drives really smooth. It's a car. The Jeep isn't, and it'll drive just a little bit different. As far as ride smoothness, though, that thing is just as plush as a Cadillac. It's really the plushest Jeep I've ever ridden in. If you haven't driven one yet, I bet you'd be impressed.

[STS Scott]

One of my good buddies Dad has a 2002 Bimmer 3-series drop top. His is very similar to yours, with a tan interior and Navy paint. His Dad took us for a drive in the county in it once last summer (we were only 18 and Shane is not aloud to touch it! lol).

To this day I have not had such an amazing experience in an automobile.

I was only in the passanger seat, but the smooth pull of the engine, the top down, and the really cool jazzy music that was turned right up made the drive out of this world.

I am not sure if it was the car, or his Dad's skill at rowing through the gears, but the power and the smoothness (let alone the sweet sound) of the powertrain blew me away!

To be honest, the STS felt like a piece of loose, rough junk after that!

It was in that car that I realized the the whole "Ultimate Driving Machine" saying is very true.

[JasonA]

Scott, if you got behind the wheel of a C5 Corvette, it would redefine your definition of "power" and a "smooth pull of the engine".

[newbold1]

When my wife and I test drove the 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Limited we were impressed with it. It had a smoother transmission than I expected and a pretty quiet interior too. The only thing I noticed was that the roof rack railings made a whistle sound at higher speeds. We had the dealer take them off just to be sure and once we did that the sound was completely gone. We would probably never use those rails so that was no big deal to me. jadcock - I agree with you that the interior materials were just okay. But, the dash components on my CTS honestly seemed to be not much better. My 96 SLS was better.

justgreat --- I only used the term transaxle because that is what the dealership called it. I don't know much about what it really was but the term seems to be being tossed around quite a bit regarding the CTS and SRX.

I drove a new STS a few months ago and the interior of that car was much more like what I would expect from Cadillac. I drove a V8 and a V6. Obviously the V8 had more power to it but really I couldn't tell all that much of a difference. The V6 (I believe the very same engine as in the CTS) seemed to be strong enough to power the car respectably. I didn't care much for the metallic looking interior though. My opinion was that the car with the wood grain interior looked much better.

My CTS stickered at $42K but with my trade value and Cadillac / GM incentives I only financed $34,497. The CTS depreciation was awful. BMW already has my car listed on their website and they are asking $25,995 for it. 38% depreciation in just 10 months... terrible. The finance manager at BMW told me he expected to list it pretty low because with all of GM's woes they keep making deals on their new car inventory to the point that the used car market for most GM cars is getting worse than ever. Kind of tough to ask much for a used car when it is so easy to get the dealership to greatly slash the price of a new one. BMW had no such deals going on and it was tough to get them to budge on the price. Meanwhile, they have a 2001 330Ci Convertible with 44K miles listed for $29,995. Assuming that car stickered at say $49K (really it was probably not that high as my 2005 stickered for that much) then the depreciation on that car has been about 39% and maybe really even less than that amount. That depreciation is almost the same as my CTS after 10 months but for the BMW it took 4 years and about 3 times the mileage.

The fact that BMW wasn't allowing much negotiation didn't seem to matter because while I was there they sold 3 other cars. I had to "wait in line" to get my paperwork done.

For anyone that is interested in checking out my facts on this you can see my 2004 CTS and the 2001 330CI Conv. I mentioned at the BMW of Nashville website.

[JasonA]

I love American cars' depreciation. I'm not one to buy a new vehicle. There's nothing wrong with it, and obviously people have to keep buying NEW ones so I can find good USED ones, but the depreciation of ANY car isn't worth it for me to be the first one to place my feet on the floormat, or get the first chip in the paint. We bought our 2003 Grand Caravan with 38k miles on it for literally HALF of what the sticker price was, and that was at retail, not from a private party. The van was only a year and a half old when we bought it (miles don't mean much to me) and we only paid $15k. Compared to the sticker price of ours when it was new ($30.8k I think), it was a no-brainer.

50% depreciation in just a year and a half... Wonderful!

A co-worker is looking to get rid of his brand new F-150 because of the horrible gas mileage. Right now, he owes more than the trade value, because of how fast the value has gone down.

[Randy_W]

When my wife and I test drove the 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Limited we were impressed with it. It had a smoother transmission than I expected and a pretty quiet interior too. The only thing I noticed was that the roof rack railings made a whistle sound at higher speeds. We had the dealer take them off just to be sure and once we did that the sound was completely gone. We would probably never use those rails so that was no big deal to me. jadcock - I agree with you that the interior materials were just okay. But, the dash components on my CTS honestly seemed to be not much better. My 96 SLS was better.

justgreat --- I only used the term transaxle because that is what the dealership called it. I don't know much about what it really was but the term seems to be being tossed around quite a bit regarding the CTS and SRX.

I drove a new STS a few months ago and the interior of that car was much more like what I would expect from Cadillac. I drove a V8 and a V6. Obviously the V8 had more power to it but really I couldn't tell all that much of a difference. The V6 (I believe the very same engine as in the CTS) seemed to be strong enough to power the car respectably. I didn't care much for the metallic looking interior though. My opinion was that the car with the wood grain interior looked much better.

My CTS stickered at $42K but with my trade value and Cadillac / GM incentives I only financed $34,497. The CTS depreciation was awful. BMW already has my car listed on their website and they are asking $25,995 for it. 38% depreciation in just 10 months... terrible. The finance manager at BMW told me he expected to list it pretty low because with all of GM's woes they keep making deals on their new car inventory to the point that the used car market for most GM cars is getting worse than ever. Kind of tough to ask much for a used car when it is so easy to get the dealership to greatly slash the price of a new one. BMW had no such deals going on and it was tough to get them to budge on the price. Meanwhile, they have a 2001 330Ci Convertible with 44K miles listed for $29,995. Assuming that car stickered at say $49K (really it was probably not that high as my 2005 stickered for that much) then the depreciation on that car has been about 39% and maybe really even less than that amount. That depreciation is almost the same as my CTS after 10 months but for the BMW it took 4 years and about 3 times the mileage.

The fact that BMW wasn't allowing much negotiation didn't seem to matter because while I was there they sold 3 other cars. I had to "wait in line" to get my paperwork done.

For anyone that is interested in checking out my facts on this you can see my 2004 CTS and the 2001 330CI Conv. I mentioned at the BMW of Nashville website.

I guess at that rate the roads will be flooded with Bimmers in the next 2 weeks, huh? How many cars have you bought at larger dealers? I've always had to wait in line for paperwork, unless it was Tuesday morning or some such. As a "loyal Cadillac owner", I hope you enjoy your under powered status symbol down at the country club, or wherever your yuppie buds hang. Since you already said the 6 cyl STS felt about the same as the V8, it's obvious that you don't care that Cobalt SS is just as quick as your beeeeeemir. If you keep it more than 10 months, you'll spend enough on it to buy a Cobalt, which you might need to get around in when the rear, brakes or pcm keep it in the shop for weeks at the time! Any time your finished bragging on the Bavarian wonder, move on to the BMW is God forum and quit bashing Cadillac to justify buying an over priced, under powered "me too" mobile!

[Scotty]

Lets try not to get defensive, he made a tough choice. Three of newbold1's problems were caused by recalls, with the exception of the differential, the other problems, Leaking Center Tail Light, Fuel Vapor Leak were not that serious. I am sure that the dealer handled his case improperly. If you go back in the archives you will see that newbold1 had trouble convincing the dealer that the differential was roaring.

I don't know about you guys but if I spent big $ for a new car, I would be disappointed if the differential had a problem so quickly, in the old days differentials were bullet-proof. You have to wonder if after it was replaced whether or not it would go again, after the warranty period ran out. Plus the wheel hop issue.

I am sure if the dealer handled his problem promptly and competently he would still be a Cadillac owner. I blame service.

[JasonA]

Service and dealer experience is at least half of an owner's perception. My family has had 5 Jeeps in the past, but based on the service and warranty policy communication from ChryCo on their current one, my folks won't own another one...not because the product is bad, but because Diamler isn't supporting it. Any vehicle is going to have issues. It's how the corporation handles it that shows the true colors of the manufacturer.

We've had wonderful experiences with Cadillac and Cadillac dealers. That's a big part of why I'm a fan. For every person who has had bad Chrysler experiences like my parents, there are 10 or 20 who have had great ones. You can find love and hates sites for every auto make out there, which illustrates that everyone has to find their own way through the auto industry and arrive at the manufacturer that has the best value to them.

[Scotty]

Well maybe you are right its not service, but its certainly something wrong with the PROCESS, go to this link

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=3674&hl=

Real how his complaint was handled:

Well... this problem has gradually worsened over time. I recently took the car to the dealership to have it checked out. The Asst. Service Manager took a ride with me and he quickly acknowledged that the noise was not normal and that it was intrusive enough to be an obvious annoyance to anyone driving the car.

There were four tech guys in the office and as we talked they said that they had a few other CTS cars that had the same problem. The fix for those cars was to replace the rear end differential... which is what I expected.

Well... after having the car for a few days I get a call from the Asst. Service Manager telling me that the District Service Manager will not authorize them to swap out the differential because they have found that this typically provides only a short term solution and the problem usually redevelops. The dealership performed a tire rotation, balance, and 4-wheel alignment since there was nothing else they were authorized to do. They wanted to at least provide me with new tires but again I was told that the District Service Manager said no. I appreciate the work the dealership performed and how they stayed in contact with me and appeared to have several "arguments" with the District Service Manager on my behalf. However, my car is still not right. I cannot drive anyone in my car without being asked what is wrong with it because the humming noise is so pronounced.

I have written a letter to Cadillac Customer Service in Detroit and am awaiting their response. I have always been loyal to the Cadillac brand and my wife and I have always assumed that we would always own Cadillacs. Now, I am not so sure. Searching the Internet I have found quite a number of other people that are in the same situation as myself.

Anyway, I am not sure how this is going to end up. I love the look of my car and the way it performs. BUT... c'mon, a luxury car with a $42K window sticker shouldn't be like this. I've never before had a dealership to acknowledge that my car had a problem that needed to be fixed but that they could not fix it because they have found no way to do so. And... go figure... I bought a NEW CTS as opposed to another used Seville so that I could have the bumper to bumper warranty.

SO EXACTLY WHERE IS THE PROBLEM? DOES ANYONE THINK THIS WENT GOOD? WE ARE NOT GOING TO REPLACE IT BECAUSE IT COMES BACK AGAIN? SO WTF ARE YOU GOING TO DO FOR MY $42,000? HOW HAS THIS SITUATION HURT FUTURE SALES? WHY DIDN'T THE WHEEL HOP ISSUE AND THIS REAR END PROBLEM THAT APPEARS COMMON ACCORDING TO THE MECHANICS GET FIXED IN TESTING IN GERMANY? IF YOU ARE GOING TO HYPE THE HELL OUT OF HOW GOOD THE TESTING WAS THEN F'N DELIVER!!! SAY WHAT YOU MEAN AND MEAN WHAT YOU SAY!! IF THIS IS NOT SERVICE THEN ITS GM, I DON'T LIKE IT AT ALL, DO SOME RESEARCH AND YOU WILL FIND THE WHEEL HOP ISSUE IS HURTING CTS AND THE PRESS EVEN PICKED UP ON IT, THERE ARE EVEN AFTERMARKET SOLUTIONS!!! LETS START BEING OBJECTIVE, WHAT IS WRONG IS WRONG, WE STAND UP AND DEFEND GM CONSTANTLY, I EVEN DO BUT IHMO THIS IS NOT DEFENDABLE, THIS IS WRONG AND THE DISTRICT SERVICE MANAGER HANDLED IT WRONG AT THE VERY LEAST THE WAY IT WAS COMMUNICATED WAS WRONG. I AM SUPPOSE TO LIVE WITH A LOUD DIFFERENTIAL BECAUSE THERE IS NO SOLUTION AT THIS POINT? NO WAY

This is the kind of SALES problems it creates, see this link!

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6259