Horn 1997 D'Elegance

[rockfangd]

Hi all.

This morning I walked by my Deville and heard a constant buzzing noise.

I thought oh crap the blower motor must have went bad (has happened before on others.) and was running all the time.

Well It wasn't.

I found the horn relay was the problem. I had to untape the bundle that goes around the 6 relays.

I unhooked the battery and touched the terminals together.

Now every time I go to hook up the battery the horn goes constant.

I had to pull the relay to hook up the battery (The D'elegance trumpet horns are very pronounced)

I then pulled another relay with the same number and tried it in the horn relay spot, horn blows.

So I assume the relay is being grounded all the time by the column side.

I dont know if the horn had been going off during the night and in the morning but I never heard anything.

I pray it is not the button on the airbag. I thought they had the issue with the airbag resolved by 1997.

When I had my 96 Deville I got lucky enough to be able to get a airbag from a 97 Deville and never had any problem with it.

I still have the old one from the 96 but it didnt work right when you went to press it.

I will have to take apart the wheel, but for the meantime I guess I have no horn.

Anyone have any insight on this?

[Cadillac Jim]

There are two schematics for horns in the 1997 FSM, the only difference being two horns or four horns. The horns are powered from the 30 Amp seats circuit breaker so there's no fuse.

The PZM can honk the horns. This is so that OnStar can honk the horns and flash the lights to help you find the car at Disney World. That isn't likely your problem but I thought that I would throw that in.

The ground of the horn relay coil goes to the PZM and up the steering column. The passage through to the steering wheel is marked "HORN BRUSH/SLIP RING" and not as a ribbon-cable coil, so the old method is used. For the air bags, the connection is two conductors in the "SIR COIL ASSEMBLY" which is the new way. The steering wheel controls go through four conductors in the SIR COIL ASSEMBLY. So the horn is the only thing that uses the slip rings.

At this point I would make sure that you have the correct relay (sound pretty likely that you do) and poke at the horn button in the hopes that it is stuck.

Logan, KHE, BBF, etc, will have experience on dealing with the steering column shorts. Fortunately, I never had that problem in a Cadillac.

[rockfangd]

I Thank you for your response.

GM widely had issues with the airbag units in the late 80s through mid 90s with either sticking on or not working at all.

Or mainly dependent on weather. Some were better, some were worse.

So you are saying the horn circuit does not go through the clockspring? That would be nice.

I pulled the airbag and found that the spring lock clip is broken at the plate behind the wheel. So the spring/wire goes in but will not lock(likely common)

I will have to try putting in the relay with the airbag disconnected and see if the horn blows.

I tried tapping the horn throughout the wheel but it made no difference.

Also I believe being the D'elegance it has the 4 note horn system

[rockfangd]

Tonight I reinstalled the relay. All is back to normal. Weird. If it does it again when it warms up then I know it is likely the airbag unit

[rockfangd]

I forgot to mention , yesterday I was at home and all of a sudden the trumpets were blaring. Quite loud. I had to yank the relay again.

I will have to get the airbag pulled and test it, then I will know for sure.

[Cadillac Jim]

Try tapping the horn area a few times and see if that helps. Sometimes if the horn isn't used for a really long time, the horn switch gets cranky. It's a long shot, but it's free.

[rockfangd]

Now that you mention it I dont know if I ever touched it til it was messing up.

I think it has to do with temp and or humidity making it complete the circuit

[Cadillac Jim]

The horn buttons most likely to stick are the ones that are never touched.

[rockfangd]

Ok. I pulled my spare airbag from my storage. I am not sure if there is any way to get it working good again. It works but has to be pressed pretty hard to work.

When I pull the airbag I would like to also fix the key in chime issue. Basically whatever tells the system the key is in the ignition. I usually use it for the memory settings.

I like to set the memory so that it sets user when the key is inserted but it wont work til I fix that issue.

can someone post a picture of the saginaw column blown up so I can have a better look without having to disassemble mine. Thanks

[Cadillac Jim]

I'm assuming that you have the column shift, tilt-wheel:

[rockfangd]

Thank you.

So I know I need number 8. Cam

But still not sure what knows the key is in the ignition. Never really ran into one with this problem.

Something must push in when the key is installed.

I look at the ignition cylinder itself and the only wires I see is for the vats chip

[Logan]

Pretty sure #17.

About page 50 on this link....

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/images/d/d6/Jazzman_Steering_Rack_Rebuild.pdf

The Saginaw column was used for years....used to be millions of them around.

[rockfangd]

Thank you so much. Thats it. Guess I need to find a few parts.

[Cadillac Jim]

The horn button is on pp 65-66. It's the first thing you see when you pull the wheel.

[KHE]

I would bet you can "tweak" the contacts of #17 in order to indicate the presence/absence of the key. If that fails, a junkyard part could be used.

[winterset]

I just wanted to say that i cannot believe the amount of individual pieces in these cars. It's a wonder that they last as long as they do. Just the steering wheel assembly has 105+ parts

[rockfangd]

lol. Like swiss watches

[rockfangd]

Update 5/26/16.

LAst week I finally took things apart.

I replaced the key in sensor, One of the tabs was broke off.

Inspected the ignition wires for the Passlock. Good.

Replaced the cancelling cam.

Serviced the TSS

Installed the airbag from my old 1996

Been a week and all is good. Horn is a little tough but works fine.

Thanks for the help