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Looked at a 96 Deville today. Have a few questions


rockfangd

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Title says it.

It has 97k miles.

Asking price was 2,800.

I noticed a definate oil leak (probably crankcase)

Has a intermittent bad misfire(s)

Got to temp ok, around 205.

Beat on it pretty hard but because of the miss I tried not to break it.

The torque convertor never seemed to lock up at all.

At 55 mph it idled at 1550

at 45 mph it idled at 1350- 1400.

It almost seemed like it tried but it was hard to tell because of the intermittent miss.

Could not tell coolant level as I could not really see anything in the surge tank.

Car had minor rust popping up here and there. Nothing major though.

no brake, or engine lights on

I came back and offered 1,000.

Said he would only go down to 1,800.

I really like the car but If it needs a torque convertor I just assume get the engine done also. (heads, crankcase, etc...)

So I figure if it cost 3500 to fix up then 1,000 would be reasonable. But for almost 2,000 I dont think it is worth it.

Unrelated it needs front hubs, brakes, other minor things.

My questions are

If the torque convertor was not locking up would it throw a code?

There was one code HP1602 I believe. Should be datalink to from ebtcm to pcm communication fault

There are 2 intermittent RSS codes also. I dont remember the numbers but they were right after each other.

Like 26 and 27 or 27 and 28.

During test drive Service ride control message popped up.

I could really use some opinions from my fellow forum members here.

Interior was good except the usual, Dash warpage, driver seat trim broken, and driver seatbelt chaffed. Very clean ottherwise

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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The RSS codes are related to the P1602, "Loss of EBTCM Serial Data" which is the EBTCM locking up or stopped. Since it is a History code, the EBTCM is not dead - unless you read the codes by turning on the key without starting the engine, in which it could be Current. The associated codes are something like C1252 and C1253, which are thrown by the RSS module when the front wheel normal force signals to the EBTCM aren't acknowledged, which always happens if the EBTCM stops. In short: This car has EBTCM problems. The C1252/3 codes are what cause the Service Ride Control light to come on occasionally.

A bad TCC will throw a P0741. If the TCC won't engage because of an electrical problem, you will have another code that says what it is, such as P0743 or one of the codes in the P18nn range.

I would say that for $4.5K you could find a better car. If you really want a project car, stick to your $1K bid, because a car that shows that much neglect will easily have another $1K or more of repairs, even at DIY costs. Such as leveling system. Then, there is shocks and struts, which are hard to get without disabling the RSS, which I wouldn't do because it downgrades the car. And, it needs a down-to-the-metal paint job, if it has lots of little rust spots showing.

I think you should get a CarFAX. That, and an independent mechanic's opinion, should clinch your decision.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Thank you very much.

I also want to state I am not looking for a project car.

I would be willing to spend more for a better one.

If the one I looked at today was better I would have definately have bought it.

I just dont want to spend a bit and get hit with a head problem or torque converter problem.

I bought my Seville with the head problem and it had 97k on it. I payed better for it though because of the otherwise excellent condition.

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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For the asking price you should me into a newer car with less issues. From what you described that's a $600 car. At independent shop there's easily $2500 of work, not to mention the rust issues.

And the big unknown is the head gaskets, that could be why coolant bottle is all mucked up. And could be basing misfire.

Too much to gamble" a car that in perfect shape is a $3000 car.

That's all my opinion not a fact. But when buying used I always assume the worst and then if the problems aren't that bad it's a bonus. But I don't get any bad surprises that way. The owner is probably selling because off all the repair work needed.

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Also the lack of a check engine light with misfire going on is surprising. 1996 is first year of OBD2 engine controls and diagnostics. Part of the OBD2 system is misfire detection.

I've seen where some people remove the check engine lamp bulb, or it's been on so long it's burned out.

Easy test is to watch the bulb check when the car is turned on. Check engine lamp should illuminate with key on and engine not started yet.

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I was surprised too. I believe it came on during the bulb test when I cycled it. It may have been intermittent enough to not throw the light

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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That car sounds like a POS... As Jwoods said, it is a $600 car - tops. Minor rust turns to major rust in a short timeframe.

The odds of finding a 20 year old car in decent shape would be better if you searched down South.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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I agree. I have seen nice ones around here but it is not easy.

It is a waste of time to find a daily driver that you dont want to rust.

It is nearly impossible.

All you can do is try to slow it down.

For my area anyway

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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I have a very soft spot for the 1996 only year.

The way I see it you cant buy a newer POS for less than 5k

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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I have a very soft spot for the 1996 only year.

In that case, I'd search inland Florida for one. Get it rustproofed and wash it weekly during the winter.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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I am afraid to buy from other areas like that. I have never done it so I dont know much about it.

I guess it could be a good road trip but I dont really have the time.

I am just afraid of scams. I have looked on ebay but am not sure how I would get the vehicle..

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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There are car shipping services, and there are accredited used car inspection services. Anywhere in the sun belt, from Georgia to California, is good.

Be sure and get the VIN and run your own CarFAX. A common practice for trade-ins is to auction them to outfits that ship cars from the rust belt to the sun belt to sell them, because they are worth more money there. A notorious practice among used car dealers in Texas, where I grew up, is to get those cars cheap, fill the rust spots with clay, and paint them; the first good rain and the clay falls out. I turned up a CTS-V in Dallas that was a fleet car in Detroit for its first two years; a CarFAX steered me away from that one.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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The P0741 is not usually the TC, if I recall Logan did some work and discovered it was internal and the tranny needs disassembly. Its an internal leak, now it could also be the TCC solenoid or associated electrical but diagnosis is needed. My friend has the problem right now it does not affect daily driving badly. Highway maybe will cause higher RPMs

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I like the 96 also having had one but the 97 thu 99 are also nice

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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It is revving higher at highway speeds, Thats how I noticed it.

I have had the 97-2002 and I really like the characteristics of the 96.

I feel that after 96 the trademark Cadillac features started disappearing both bodywise and interior

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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In better call Saul and breaking bad what year was Saul's car? It's from that era. Watching the shows I've always Qantas white Cadillac like his. And it's so clean in the show

Edited by Jwoods016
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The P0741 is not usually the TC, if I recall Logan did some work and discovered it was internal and the tranny needs disassembly. Its an internal leak, now it could also be the TCC solenoid or associated electrical but diagnosis is needed. My friend has the problem right now it does not affect daily driving badly. Highway maybe will cause higher RPMs

IF the P0741 code is being set by itself, the seals in the torque converter apply circuit are worn. When the PCM detects high torque converter slip (>200RPM) and the TCC is commanded on, the P0741 code will set. Fluid leakage in the apply circuit will contaminate the viscous fluid in the torque converter which will allow additional torque converter slip which generates heat. Eventually, the clutches in the torque converter come apart and load the trans. with debris.

If the P0741 code is accompanied by the P1860, then the issue is with the TCC solenoid itself.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Good info Kevin. Thanks. I recalled that Logan spoke about the seals and mentioned the P1860

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Its possible that the PCM codes were cleared and a full drive cycle had not been completed. But a code should set.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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From previous experience when the P0741 sets the light it can be cleared. The light will stay off until the computer commands lockup and it does see the rpm drop. As soon as it see slip in excess parameters then the CEL will be on

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This one had no codes. Is that possible?

To have no lockup but no light or codes?

Do you know for a fact that it is not locking up? You should get a 50 RPM increase when the brake pedal is tapped while cruising. It can be hard to see that with the digital display - it is easier to see it on an analog dash.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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I used my experience of having multiple models of that era. I knew my 96 pretty well to a T. Thats how I got my heads up that my torque converter was going. It had a slight shudder and had difficulty unlocking.

The Rpms on the one I looked at were high like it was driving with no overdrive.

Usually if the torque converter is locked up and you hit the gas to accelerate it will take a second due to the tcc disengaging. This one never dropped rpms IE during lockup, therefore it had no delay.

Maybe I am wrong about this.

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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