OIL STOCK Options

[cts5949]

Cadillac Owners should get Stock Options from the oil companies.Let me start by saying that I am the proud owner of a 2006 CTS 3.6 ltr. I bought it "certified used" from a reputable Cadillac Dealer in May of 2009 with under 30k miles. I noticed after the first few k that the oil was low, and just chalked it up to an oversight at the dealer, so I topped off the oil as needed. The dealership gave me the first oil change which I thought was pretty cool. Since then have been doing my own, which I do every 3-5 k and mostly use the recommended 5-30 premium brand that is printed on the fill cap. Quickly, I noticed something missing in the drain pail, but was perplexed by the lack of noticeable leaks or smoking. It's awesome what a catalytic converter will hide............

After months of research, I have come to the conclusion that burning a quart of synthetic oil every 500-1000 miles is a common occurrence for Cadillac, and GM regards this as "normal". It is also apparent that far too many owners, regardless of year, model, or size of the motor, have issues with oil consumption since the mid 80's. I have heard every thing from stuck rings, to valve seats, you name it as "why".

What amazes me... GM has done nothing to correct it....except deny that it is an issue. My solution is very simple, offer stock options to the oil company of your choice and make it transferable for future owners for all the extra oil that is consumed. Let's just be conservative for a moment, if 100,000 owners driving average 24k per year use on average an extra qt ever 1000 miles(which GM claims as normal consumption)that is over 600,000 gallons of synthetic oil with an average cost of $7/qt or $16.8 million USD per year. What constitutes abnormal cost or oil consumed?

Since the introduction of the Northstar in 1984, owners have had concerns of the oil consumption. And amazingly it is viewed by GM as normal. My question is over the course of 20 years for owners to have spent $340 million in hard earned US American dollars in oil consumed in these vehicles "normal"?

I don't know about you, I have owned 16 cars in my life time, including my first 1964 clunker I bought in 1974,have never had a burner. I was told by one GM expert it is because the 3.6 is a "HIGH compression motor" with 10.2 to 1 ratio "they" push oil past the rings as all "HIGH" compression motors do. Sorry, find that hard to swallow as I had a 2.2 turbo/ 9 to 1 ratio that I kicked the snot out and abused daily for 340k and "NEVER"-"EVER" burnt drop one. Head gaskets...that was a separate issue.

I was even told that someone must have "over filled" the oil, causing the "paper clip like rings" to stick closed. You would think a loss of performance would result................really?

The bottom line is the design of the motors are flawed, and a recall would be far too expensive. So my solution, since they can't figure out how to build an engine that doesn't burn oil every 500-1500 miles( considered normal) would be to have GM offer owners a stock option to the oil company of our choice(lord knows they have enough interest in oil)to recoup our losses and reduce expense of maintenance.

For the record, my CTS is one of the most enjoyable cars to drive, with 84k now noticing a leak of anti freeze, time for a water pump....that's normal!

[BodybyFisher]

This is your first posting. Welcome aboard.

What I dont understand is this. If you have been told, and you have concluded that this oil consumption is NORMAL, why are you here?, to complain?, to air your frustration?, to dump on GM and Cadillac? And you wait 50K miles to air yourself?

Well, I DONT think your oil consumption is normal at all. 500 to 1000 miles on a quart to me is excessive. I don't buy that its because its a high compression engine.

The Northstar will also have excessive oil consumption like that if it is babied and not pushed.

What you need to do is to try the WOT PROCEDURE. I am sure that its different than the WOT PROCEDURE on the Northstar but I would try this if I were you.

On DRY GROUND, WITH NO TRAFFIC, get onto to clear highway, that you can get up to 70 on and NOT get a ticket. WE WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACCIDENT, TICKET OR IF YOU ARE INJURED. Make sure the oil is up to where it belongs, coolant is at normal level, tires are good, and air pressure is correct, etc

1) get up to 40 mph

2) put the shift into second gear

3) push the accelerator 3/4 of the way down to accelerate to 70

4) release the gas pedal and let the transmission slow the car to 40, the negative back pressure will exercise the rings and blow out carbon

5) repeat this 10 times

Do this once a week for a month then once a month and see what happens. Also, when you get onto expressways and parkways FLOOR it to get up to speed EVERY TIME.

Engines today do not like to be babied, drive them hard

Report back the results

[BodybyFisher]

Next thing I would try is

1) get away from synthetic and try good old DINO, I personally HATE synthetic its viscosity is not true if you ask me

2) consider using 10W30 instead of 5W30. 5W30 is to improve fuel efficiency, the 10W will greatly improve your oil consumption

Try the above as an EXPERIMENT, they should not cause any problems

[BodybyFisher]

The next time you post, try to be POSITIVE, the top of this page says CADILLAC ENTHUSIASTS forum, its not a complaint board. You have made many ASSUMPTIONS and made many CONCLUSIONS, you made definitive STATEMENTS, you DID NOT ask questions or for our guidance.

[Cadillac Jim]

My understanding of the GM warranty (including Cadillac) is that documented oil consumption in excess of a quart every 1000 miles under normal usage (no towing or off-road, racing, etc.) invokes the warranty and must be repaired, up to and including replacement of the engine. The design center, or intended average, oil consumption is a quart every 2000 miles, meaning that you won't need to add oil between changes for a "normal" engine in normal usage.

There are a lot of Northstars out there with oil burning problems; I first came to Caddyinfo because I had one. I bought my car new and had it maintained at the dealers near where I lived up to about 100,000 miles, using Mobil 1 5W-30. Up to 80,000 miles, the car never burned a drop of oil that I knew of. Suddenly, under the care of an excessively surly tech, in the space of two oil changes it was burning a quart every 500 miles. Then I caught him simply skipping an oil change and went elsewhere. Two oil changes and a road trip later, it was burning a quart every 2,000 miles.

From all this, I learned two lessons:

• There is no inherent oil-burning issue with the Northstar.
• It's best to maintain an old car with a trusty local shop, not the dealer, except when you want the Goodwrench warranty on something.

Some things I have learned after years of contributing to Caddyinfo and watching posts and threads:

• Everybody has an opinion about oil. The only hard truth is that if you follow the instructions in the owner's manual and use oil of the weight and specifications stated (10W-30 or 5W-30, starburst symbol on the top of the can) and change the oil as specified in the owner's manual then you will be treating your car well.
• A lot of people come to Caddyinfo and do a long first post without browsing the forum or doing a search on the items that they write their thesis on, and find that they are dealing with a lot of people who know a lot more about these same issues and gained this knowledge over ten years ago. Politeness is a salient trait of posts on Caddyinfo, but when you see a querulous response, do a search!

[CarlaValentine]

I would have to agree that needing a quart every 1000 miles is absurd. That is DEFINITELY NOT normal, and GM wouldn't call it normal either. I drive a 17 year old Northstar with oil leaks at the timing cover and the oil distribution plate seal, and I STILL don't require more than 2 quarts between changes, which in my case is roughly 6,000 miles. ALL engines will have SOME oil consumption, but it is usually very little and nothing to concern yourself with.

I do not take your post as rude. You are voicing an opinion and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The fact that despite your negative feelings about the oil, you STILL drive a Caddy, is quite reassuring that you aren't trying to bash on Cadillacs.

[cts5949]

This is your first posting. Welcome aboard.

What I dont understand is this. If you have been told, and you have concluded that this oil consumption is NORMAL, why are you here?, to complain?, to air your frustration?, to dump on GM and Cadillac? And you wait 50K miles to air yourself?

Well, I DONT think your oil consumption is normal at all. 500 to 1000 miles on a quart to me is excessive. I don't buy that its because its a high compression engine.

The Northstar will also have excessive oil consumption like that if it is babied and not pushed.

What you need to do is to try the WOT PROCEDURE. I am sure that its different than the WOT PROCEDURE on the Northstar but I would try this if I were you.

On DRY GROUND, WITH NO TRAFFIC, get onto to clear highway, that you can get up to 70 on and NOT get a ticket. WE WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACCIDENT, TICKET OR IF YOU ARE INJURED. Make sure the oil is up to where it belongs, coolant is at normal level, tires are good, and air pressure is correct, etc

1) get up to 40 mph

2) put the shift into second gear

3) push the accelerator 3/4 of the way down to accelerate to 70

4) release the gas pedal and let the transmission slow the car to 40, the negative back pressure will exercise the rings and blow out carbon

5) repeat this 10 times

Do this once a week for a month then once a month and see what happens. Also, when you get onto expressways and parkways FLOOR it to get up to speed EVERY TIME.

Engines today do not like to be babied, drive them hard

Report back the results

[cts5949]

Cadillac Owners should get Stock Options from the oil companies.Let me start by saying that I am the proud owner of a 2006 CTS 3.6 ltr. I bought it "certified used" from a reputable Cadillac Dealer in May of 2009 with under 30k miles. I noticed after the first few k that the oil was low, and just chalked it up to an oversight at the dealer, so I topped off the oil as needed. The dealership gave me the first oil change which I thought was pretty cool. Since then have been doing my own, which I do every 3-5 k and mostly use the recommended 5-30 premium brand that is printed on the fill cap. Quickly, I noticed something missing in the drain pail, but was perplexed by the lack of noticeable leaks or smoking. It's awesome what a catalytic converter will hide............

After months of research, I have come to the conclusion that burning a quart of synthetic oil every 500-1000 miles is a common occurrence for Cadillac, and GM regards this as "normal". It is also apparent that far too many owners, regardless of year, model, or size of the motor, have issues with oil consumption since the mid 80's. I have heard every thing from stuck rings, to valve seats, you name it as "why".

What amazes me... GM has done nothing to correct it....except deny that it is an issue. My solution is very simple, offer stock options to the oil company of your choice and make it transferable for future owners for all the extra oil that is consumed. Let's just be conservative for a moment, if 100,000 owners driving average 24k per year use on average an extra qt ever 1000 miles(which GM claims as normal consumption)that is over 600,000 gallons of synthetic oil with an average cost of $7/qt or $16.8 million USD per year. What constitutes abnormal cost or oil consumed?

Since the introduction of the Northstar in 1984, owners have had concerns of the oil consumption. And amazingly it is viewed by GM as normal. My question is over the course of 20 years for owners to have spent $340 million in hard earned US American dollars in oil consumed in these vehicles "normal"?

I don't know about you, I have owned 16 cars in my life time, including my first 1964 clunker I bought in 1974,have never had a burner. I was told by one GM expert it is because the 3.6 is a "HIGH compression motor" with 10.2 to 1 ratio "they" push oil past the rings as all "HIGH" compression motors do. Sorry, find that hard to swallow as I had a 2.2 turbo/ 9 to 1 ratio that I kicked the snot out and abused daily for 340k and "NEVER"-"EVER" burnt drop one. Head gaskets...that was a separate issue.

I was even told that someone must have "over filled" the oil, causing the "paper clip like rings" to stick closed. You would think a loss of performance would result................really?

The bottom line is the design of the motors are flawed, and a recall would be far too expensive. So my solution, since they can't figure out how to build an engine that doesn't burn oil every 500-1500 miles( considered normal) would be to have GM offer owners a stock option to the oil company of our choice(lord knows they have enough interest in oil)to recoup our losses and reduce expense of maintenance.

For the record, my CTS is one of the most enjoyable cars to drive, with 84k now noticing a leak of anti freeze, time for a water pump....that's normal!

[BodybyFisher]

I am not sure what you are attempting to do with the above two posts, if its a mistake, Ill remove them.

Try what we recommended. As much as I like GM, without getting into details, its amazing what some of their techs tell the public.

I have an 01 Monte Carlo that uses NO oil between oil changes and it has 90K miles, and its not a Cadillac, so I dont expect that its normal for a Cadillac to use oil either, high compression or not.

I saw where you like your Cadillac, but it can be better for you

[cts5949]

Thank you all for understanding my frustration, as I said in the beginning, I am the PROUD owner of my CTS. I wont own anything else, and planning to buy an XLR next, no doubt great road machines. Just a little disheartened that no one can tell me why the one I presently own drinks oil....

I live in North GA, so she gets a good workout daily. As far as waiting 50k to reach out...I just found this site. I have been searching the answer since the first quart I put in.

The warranty on 06 unfortunately are only 50k, and 3 dealers in my area didn't see any problem with a quart every 1000k. I have done all the tricks prior suggested, without being invasive.

The last expert sold me (2) pints of GM part #88861802 Upper Engine and Fuel injector Cleaner. Recommended to get engine good and warmed up, pour the magic miracle juice in my crank....run a hot quarter mile and dump oil. Supposedly to "un stick" my rings and acts like an internal "steam cleaner". Like I said this car has no performance issues, I have plenty of "getty-up" to "get along"

After care full consideration had second thoughts to subject my engine to concentrated Glycol Ether and Amyl alcohol. It sounded like a sure fire way to blow the engine, which I guess would permanently stop the oil consumption.

My apologies to anyone offended by my first post...it was designed to generate interest, energy and edgy responses. I am happy to hear that there are folks that have had flawless experience with their vehicles.

I was born and raised in Boston, and far from being negative...sarcastic witticisms are my way sparking diverse responses. A comic relief to a frustrating situation. Simply I enjoy stirring the proverbial pot.

Over the holiday we drove 1200 miles to Florida to see the in laws,used 2 quarts, even had the opportunity to do the 2 gear 70mph on the trip back...

So who has the answer out there....someone tell me "why"!

[BodybyFisher]

Have you tried 10W30 synthetic and dino oil with the same results?

Two quarts in 1200 miles is not normal

By the way, you didnt offend anyone, I would have liked to see your second post, first.... We look for details, and we try to help and know what is normal, we cant help much with complaints

[BodybyFisher]

Check this thread out, there is a bulletin there that may be helpful.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f21/cts-high-oil-consumption-81279/

[adallak]

I am not sure what you are attempting to do with the above two posts, if its a mistake, Ill remove them.

Try what we recommended. As much as I like GM, without getting into details, its amazing what some of their techs tell the public.

I have an 01 Monte Carlo that uses NO oil between oil changes and it has 90K miles, and its not a Cadillac, so I dont expect that its normal for a Cadillac to use oil either, high compression or not.

I saw where you like your Cadillac, but it can be better for you

CTS5949,

The 4.9 liter engine in my 1991 Seville did not use any oil. I do not find your post offensive - all of us spill out our frustration occasionally. The good thing is that you may learn a lot from this board and hopefully address most of your Cadillac-related concerns. Welcome to the board!

[Texas Jim]

I am sorry about your oil consumption issue.

I wish it wasn't happening to you.

I have never had any oil burning issues in my last 30 years of driving a Cadillac..till I bought the one I have now.

I have had two Northstars.

My current one is a 2006 DTS Performance Sedan that I bought new.

All of the next several paragraphs happened "BEFORE" I found this great forum.

The first trip I took, it used a quart in the first 500 miles.

After that it was around 1000 miles a quart.

The Cadillac dealer where I bought the car, told me that was, more or less, normal.

He gave me some BS about the rings were bad about sticking and causing oil consumption.

Be advised...I "DO NOT" recommend doing what I did.

Mine was a new car, still under warranty and yours is not......but...

The "NEXT" trip I took, I decided I wasn't going to drive a "NEW" Cadillac and have to carry a quart of oil in the trunk.

That was unacceptable to me.

We went up thru the mountains of Colorado and then to Montana and then back to Texas.

I drove it like a sports car thru the mountains ... often running in 1st and 2nd gear...downshifting to help slow the car, and then exiting the corners at full throttle and high RPM.

I was trying to take corners like it was a 'vette.

Most of the time when I passed another car..I did it at WIDE OPEN THROTTLE.

I was so disappointed (and ANGRY) at my new Cadillac and the oil burning problem.

I figured I would either blow it up of make the oil problem SO BAD, that they would HAVE to fix it.

At that point it didn't make any difference to me what happened to the engine.

I thought it was just a bad engine...and I wanted it either fixed or replaced.

Surprisingly...It QUIT BURNING OIL.

It now has 93,000 miles on it and I have "NEVER" had to add another quart of oil between changes.

I still drive it in a pretty SPIRITEDLY fashion, and it has been a great car.

I routinely cruise at triple digits when on road trips and the traffic is very light.

Like I said earlier...I am not, in ANY WAY, advising you to drive your car like I did mine.

I was just stating what "I" did.

[BodybyFisher]

It sounds like you read those RINGS the riot act Jim, and they did their job and SEATED... I never heard this story, thanks

[Texas Jim]

It sounds like you read those RINGS the riot act Jim, and they did their job and SEATED... I never heard this story, thanks

That was right after I bought the car.

I was "SO" disappointed, upset and just plain pi$$ed off...there are not really words to describe it.

BRAND NEW $56,000 car...and it burns oil...

But I fixed 'er...

[BodybyFisher]

Jim, that is a story that GM should be told, the dealer is saying its NORMAL, and you go out and FIX it.... The engine division should benefit from your story, and thereby produce a better product. If they are producing engines where the rings don't seat, they should remedy the problem

[Texas Jim]

Jim, that is a story that GM should be told, the dealer is saying its NORMAL, and you go out and FIX it.... The engine division should benefit from your story, and thereby produce a better product. If they are producing engines where the rings don't seat, they should remedy the problem

I have no idea on who to contact or who would actually take the time to listen to just a peon consumer...

But I did fix it.

The DTS will use "MAYBE" a cup or two of oil between changes...which are usually around 7500 miles.

If I was changing it at 2K or 4K like a lot of people do...it wouldn't even be down enough on the stick to even notice.

For all practical purposes...it uses NO OIL AT ALL.

And that's just the way I like it..

[BodybyFisher]

I am looking into becoming a service writer at a GM dealer, I just dont know if my experience would preclude me from being one, and that I have to check my brain at the door to occupy that job.

For instance, I have heard service writers say

You did not break your CTS in correct, that is why your GETRAG differential is humming, it will cost you X dollars

Burning 1 quart in 500 miles is normal, due to x, y and z

Sorry we can not give you a rental while we fix your 1 year old CTS's timing chains, and then the dealer is reimbursed a rental car from GM, but the CTS owner pays for the rental herself..

I am not sure what goes on at the dealer, or if honesty, integrity, experience and intelligence is required, maybe, I am over qualified for that job ethically who knows, I am unable to lie without my face showing it

[Cadillac Jim]

Except for a brief period between about 80,000 miles and 90,000 miles, my car has also burned little or no oil and, other than that period, I never had to add oil between changes.

I do think that there is a sticking ring problem in the 1993-1999 Northstar and perhaps in other high-performance engines with steel sleeves that has been larger overcome in later offerings, probably by increasing the amount of oil flow to the rings - which is to say the design center amount of oil burned in light engine duty that was known to lead to stuck rings in earlier versions.

It is my experience that you are at the mercy of the tech when you go to the dealer for a fix. I got the stuck ring treatment that is prescribed in the GM Tech Memo referred to by BodybyFisher. The Tech Memo or associated later memos specifically states that you should not leave the solution in the cylinders longer than one hour or the grunge will settle back into the rings and could make the car even worse off. The tech left the solution in my car for FOUR AND A HALF HOURS. And, yes, the car was worse than before. But, after two oil changes at an independent shop using Mobil 5W-30 and a road trip (actually a few high-speed 25-mile commutes with a lead foot) it dropped back to a quart every 2,000 miles and there it stayed until I eventually got the dreaded head gasket problem several years later. I have absolutely no doubt that the intentions of the dealer and the Service Manager were the best possible for my car because I grew up in the car business and am a fairly good judge of people, shops, and mechanics. I also have absolutely no doubt that the tech thought that the car should be scrapped and I should buy a new one because the tech told me just exactly that.

[Texas Jim]

I am looking into becoming a service writer at a GM dealer, I just dont know if my experience would preclude me from being one, and that I have to check my brain at the door to occupy that job.

For instance, I have heard service writers say

You did not break your CTS in correct, that is why your GETRAG differential is humming, it will cost you X dollars

Burning 1 quart in 500 miles is normal, due to x, y and z

Sorry we can not give you a rental while we fix your 1 year old CTS's timing chains, and then the dealer is reimbursed a rental car from GM, but the CTS owner pays for the rental herself..

I am not sure what goes on at the dealer, or if honesty, integrity, experience and intelligence is required, maybe, I am over qualified for that job ethically who knows,

I am unable to lie without my face showing it

..I have that problem also...I can't help but grin a little if I am telling you a big lie.

I just ain't no good at it.

I hope they are looking for a high caliber person and you get the job.

[BodybyFisher]

Thanks Jim, personally, I think that its a perfect job for me... I love the Cadillac, love diagnostics, know the questions to ask, love GM, and understand that I would be the face of GM and represent well, while realizing that the customer's satisfaction is #1

[Ranger]

Mike, service writers make their money (commission) on what they sell and so does the dealer for that matter. From my experience, service writers don't diagnose anything. They simply type up the costumers complaint and pass it on to the tech, then return with the bad news (the cost of the repair). You are also the sounding board and whipping boy for the angry costumer. Even the ones with unrealistic demands.