4L60E won't shift to 3rd manually

[adallak]

Out of blue my 4L60E won't shift to 2nd and consequently to the 1stMANUALLY. I cannot move the shift lever to the 2rd. I have not noticed anything unusual recently. No noises. No leaks. The fluid is clean and the level is fine. ATF has been changed by a dealer 10,000 miles ago. No trouble codes on the climate control.

Any input is appreciated. I am at a loss.

[Texas Jim]

Just to make it clear in my mind....

You can drive the car OK.

You can put the shift lever in Park, Reverse, Neutral and Drive.

But thats all.

You can not put the shift lever in 3rd, 2nd or 1st.

If this is correct...

Since it is a cable operated shifting mechanism...

If you have not already done so...I would look for something in the way / blocking the linkage, on the side of the transmission.

Maybe a rock has bounced up and got in the way?

[adallak]

Just to make it clear in my mind....

You can drive the car OK.

You can put the shift lever in Park, Reverse, Neutral and Drive.

But thats all.

You can not put the shift lever in 3rd, 2nd or 1st.

If this is correct...

Since it is a cable operated shifting mechanism...

If you have not already done so...I would look for something in the way / blocking the linkage, on the side of the transmission.

Maybe a rock has bounced up and got in the way?

Thanks for the reply , Jim. Yes, the car drives fine. I cannot shift MANUALLY the shift lever to the 2nd (sorry, the title says the 3rd but it is actually the 2nd). I can shift manually to PRND3 just fine. The steering column shift lever system is new to me and I cannot say I am in love with it... It is my understanding that something mechanical happened to the linkage. If I can do the adjustment without putting the car on a hoist, it's fine. Otherwise a four hour drive to my mechanic in NJ where I rent a hoist...

[Texas Jim]

Thanks for the reply , Jim. Yes, the car drives fine. I cannot shift MANUALLY the shift lever to the 2nd (sorry, the title says the 3rd but it is actually the 2nd).

I can shift manually to PRND3 just fine.

The steering column shift lever system is new to me and I cannot say I am in love with it...

It is my understanding that something mechanical happened to the linkage. If I can do the adjustment without putting the car on a hoist, it's fine. Otherwise a four hour drive to my mechanic in NJ where I rent a hoist...

Don't hit me for asking a real basic question....

You do realize that you have to "PULL THE SHIFT LEVER" towards you to shift it to 2nd or 1st....

There is also a HALF MOON shaped thing on the steering column...under the hood... where the shift mechanism will hit a detent...if you don't pull it towards you when you try to shift to 2nd or 1st.

Maybe something is wrong with "THAT" part also.

If you have someone to help you... look at the piece under the hood, while someone else is moving the shift lever and pulling it back towards them.

Just thinking out loud.... this is a strange problem.

[adallak]

Thanks for the reply , Jim. Yes, the car drives fine. I cannot shift MANUALLY the shift lever to the 2nd (sorry, the title says the 3rd but it is actually the 2nd).

I can shift manually to PRND3 just fine.

The steering column shift lever system is new to me and I cannot say I am in love with it...

It is my understanding that something mechanical happened to the linkage. If I can do the adjustment without putting the car on a hoist, it's fine. Otherwise a four hour drive to my mechanic in NJ where I rent a hoist...

Don't hit me for asking a real basic question....

You do realize that you have to "PULL THE SHIFT LEVER" towards you to shift it to 2nd or 1st....

There is also a HALF MOON shaped thing on the steering column...under the hood... where the shift mechanism will hit a detent...if you don't pull it towards you when you try to shift to 2nd or 1st.

Maybe something is wrong with "THAT" part also.

If you have someone to help you... look at the piece under the hood, while someone else is moving the shift lever and pulling it back towards them.

Just thinking out loud.... this is a strange problem.

Jim, sure I pull the shift lever towards myself. Otherwise I would not be able to shift not only to the D2 but also to any other position. I will look at the linkage tomorrow, at least at the parts that are visible from the top.

[rockfangd]

sounds to me like a cable or likage problem. likely cable

[adallak]

sounds to me like a cable or likage problem. likely cable

UPDATE:

I have checked visually all the shift links I could see under the hood (and I could see all of them clearly). It does not look like something is wrong with them since they all move freely... It just supports my worst worries that a broken or partially broken part is inside the steering column. Some parts are made of aluminum alloy and it can just wear out because of interaction with some steel parts...

I had to disassemble the steering column of my 1991 Seville in the parking lot of SEARS to get a broken aluminum part in ignition link out... Not a job for the faint of heart. After half of the column was apart I got stuck because I could not remove a tilt pivot without a special tool! Thanks a lot GM! Had to made a lever from a steel road to push the ignition switch directly (without turning the ignition key). That modification never let me down.

This steering column is even worse since there are some four shift parts inside and the FSM recommends EIGHT special tools to do the job...

I will likely disconnect the shift road from the lever on the transmission and try to shift the lever on the steering column. If it still does not move to D2 -the problem is inside the steering column.

[KHE]

Most of the special tools can be fabricated or borrowed from the auto parts store.

[adallak]

Most of the special tools can be fabricated or borrowed from the auto parts store.

Yep, that's what I am going to do. Fabricating might be easier if I knew the thread sizes of the special tools, etc. Will check out the local Advance Autoparts. Never rented tools from them though. Heard of Autozone, but it is too far.

[BodybyFisher]

Are you sure that it is not just the indicator adjustment that is messed up, the 94 FSM shows an adjustement for the column indicator.

I don't see any adjustment for the manual cable itself.

If you think my 94 Deville manual will have any info in it let me know

[adallak]

Are you sure that it is not just the indicator adjustment that is messed up, the 94 FSM shows an adjustement for the column indicator.

I don't see any adjustment for the manual cable itself.

If you think my 94 Deville manual will have any info in it let me know

Mike, the lever itself does not move past D3, not just the needle of the PRND indicator. I have the FSM. The steering column is a mess, but it is doable if you have all the right tools. Even a locker ring can drive you nuts if you do not have a tool to remove/install it.

First, I want to disconnect the links from the transmission to make sure the latter is not involved. I can drive without D2 and D1, but because I do not know what is going on exactly, I am afraid of not being able to shift it to critical positions somewhere down the road a hundred miles away.

[BodybyFisher]

You are saying you can shift to PRND but not 2 or 1 to the right of D? Are you sure the problem is in the steering column?

[BodybyFisher]

Do you run out of room to move the selector or is the selector jammed right of Drive?

[BodybyFisher]

I am surprised there is no manual cable adjustment, here is it for the 96 Deville

Automatic Transmission Range Selector Cable Adjustment

Adjustment Procedure

Notice
Adjust the shift control cable only while the transaxle and the gear selector are in NEUTRAL. Failure to do so may cause mis-adjustment.

Set the parking brake and chock the wheels.

Important
Pry on the shift cable terminal at the manual shaft lever pin with an appropriate tool. Do not pry or pull up on any other part of the shift cable or the shift cable may be damaged.

Remove the shift cable terminal from the transaxle manual shaft lever pin.

Fully lift the adjuster block button. Make sure that the adjuster is free to move.

Place the transaxle manual shaft lever in NEUTRAL gear. In order to find NEUTRAL, complete the following steps:

• Rotate the lever fully counter-clockwise to PARK.
• Rotate the lever clockwise through two clicks, through reverse into NEUTRAL.

Place the gear shifter in the NEUTRAL position. The gear shifter is located inside the car.

• For vehicles with a floor shift, depress the button in the shift knob and pull the shifter into the LOW 1 position. Release the button. Push forward on the knob. Do not touch the button. The gear shift lever will move forward while clicking over the gear travel stops. When the lever stops solidly it is in NEUTRAL. Release the lever.
• For vehicles with a column shift, rotate the shift lever to the LOW 1 position. Push the lever fully down. Push forward (toward the front of the vehicle) and slowly upward on the lever. The gear shift lever will move up while clicking over the gear over travel stops. When the lever stops solidly, it is in NEUTRAL. Release the lever.

Underhood, grasp the white plastic shift cable terminal and pull it toward the pin on the manual shaft lever. The shift cable adjuster spring should compress as the terminal is moved toward the pin.

Important

Do not pull the terminal beyond the pin then push back. This could move the shifter out of NEUTRAL.

Attach the pin to the lever by pushing down carefully until it snaps. Do not move the lever out of position. Press the adjuster lock button down flush with the adjuster body.

Shift to PARK.

Release the parking brake while applying the service brake.

Start the engine. <LI>Make sure that all of the indicated gear positions match the vehicle response

[adallak]

Do you run out of room to move the selector or is the selector jammed right of Drive?

I do not know how would I know whether I run out of room. Based on how easily it makes from P to D3, something just does not let it go further to D2.

[adallak]

I am surprised there is no manual cable adjustment, here is it for the 96 Deville

Automatic Transmission Range Selector Cable Adjustment

Adjustment Procedure

Notice
Adjust the shift control cable only while the transaxle and the gear selector are in NEUTRAL. Failure to do so may cause mis-adjustment.

Set the parking brake and chock the wheels.

Important
Pry on the shift cable terminal at the manual shaft lever pin with an appropriate tool. Do not pry or pull up on any other part of the shift cable or the shift cable may be damaged.

Remove the shift cable terminal from the transaxle manual shaft lever pin.

Fully lift the adjuster block button. Make sure that the adjuster is free to move.

Place the transaxle manual shaft lever in NEUTRAL gear. In order to find NEUTRAL, complete the following steps:

• Rotate the lever fully counter-clockwise to PARK.
• Rotate the lever clockwise through two clicks, through reverse into NEUTRAL.

Place the gear shifter in the NEUTRAL position. The gear shifter is located inside the car.

• For vehicles with a floor shift, depress the button in the shift knob and pull the shifter into the LOW 1 position. Release the button. Push forward on the knob. Do not touch the button. The gear shift lever will move forward while clicking over the gear travel stops. When the lever stops solidly it is in NEUTRAL. Release the lever.
• For vehicles with a column shift, rotate the shift lever to the LOW 1 position. Push the lever fully down. Push forward (toward the front of the vehicle) and slowly upward on the lever. The gear shift lever will move up while clicking over the gear over travel stops. When the lever stops solidly, it is in NEUTRAL. Release the lever.

Underhood, grasp the white plastic shift cable terminal and pull it toward the pin on the manual shaft lever. The shift cable adjuster spring should compress as the terminal is moved toward the pin.

Important

Do not pull the terminal beyond the pin then push back. This could move the shifter out of NEUTRAL.

Attach the pin to the lever by pushing down carefully until it snaps. Do not move the lever out of position. Press the adjuster lock button down flush with the adjuster body.

Shift to PARK.

Release the parking brake while applying the service brake.

Start the engine. <LI>Make sure that all of the indicated gear positions match the vehicle response

Thanks Mike. I do not see any cable in my Fleetwood. Only links, rods and levers. There is an adjustment procedure in my FSM as well. But I do not think it needs adjustment because it goes correctly to each of P,R, N, D, D3 positions. Am I right? Could the problem be INSIDE the transmission? Oh no.

[BodybyFisher]

This is confusing

But I do not think it needs adjustment because it goes correctly to each of P,R, N, D, D3 positions

We are talking about the MANUAL selector here no? Are you saying you can not choose an manual gears to the right of D on the selector, that is what I thought you were saying, correct?

OR,

The tranny is NOT shifting?

I am having BIG TIME difficulty today understanding what people are saying sorry

[adallak]

This is confusing

But I do not think it needs adjustment because it goes correctly to each of P,R, N, D, D3 positions

We are talking about the MANUAL selector here no? Are you saying you can not choose an manual gears to the right of D on the selector, that is what I thought you were saying, correct?

OR,

The tranny is NOT shifting?

I am having BIG TIME difficulty today understanding what people are saying sorry

Mike, I know it sounds confusing. I'll try to express my vision more accurately. Here goes.

AS FAS AS I UNDERSTAND the operation of steering column mounted transmission shift system:

1.There is a certain range within which the shift bowl with a lever attached to it can move around the axis of the column.

2. The purpose of the adjustment of the linkage which links the movement of the shift lever to the the position of the shift lever attached to the driver side of the transmission is that all the positions of the latter are executable with free movement of the shift lever on the column. IN THIS RESPECT YOU ACTUALLY MIGHT BE RIGHT! What if something changed and I am not in that range and do not even realize that!

3. There is also fully mechanical needle indicator which shows PRNDD3D2D1 and can be adjusted via a cable attached to the shift bowl on the steering column. THAT indicator works fine - I mean I am really in N when the transmission in N and I am really in P when it is in P.

4. The tranny shifts perfectly on its own (automatically) through all the gears while driving.

That said, Mike you might be right.... all I need to check out is the ADJUSTMENT of shift links.

Am I correct/clear now?

[KHE]

When the gearshift lever is in "N", does is the needle centered between the dots that are above and to each side of the letter N on the PRNDL display? If it is, the linkage is adjusted properly.

[adallak]

When the gearshift lever is in "N", does is the needle centered between the dots that are above and to each side of the letter N on the PRNDL display? If it is, the linkage is adjusted properly.

Kevin, yes BOTH the pointer AND the shift linkage are perfectly adjusted. I have just confirmed that.

UPDATE:

I have attached a diagram which shows how the movement of the shift lever mounted on the steering column transfers to the U-shaped shift lever 3 on the driver side of the transmission. When one moves the shift lever (not shown) from P towards D, the shift bowl on the steering column (not shown) transmits the rotational movement to a shift tube inside the steering column. The shift tube goes through the firewall and ends with a lever 1 which has a hole. The upper end of a vertical rod 2 is connected pivotally to the lever 1 while the lower of the rod 2 is connected to a horizontal swivel. The latter transfers the vertical movement of the rod 2 to the U-shaped shift lever 3. The shift lever 3 rotates counter-clockwise when one goes from Park towards D1. You can clearly hear the clicks when the shift lever rotates and goes through all the positions. The shift tube inside the steering column is enclosed in another tube which has a notch 4 which limits the movement of the shift tube.

I have disconnected the vertical rod 2 from the lever 1 of the shift tube. I was able to move the vertical rod 2 with hand so that the U-shaped shift lever on the transmission would move through all the positions from Park to D1. The movement was free, the clicks were crisp. So, at least I know now that there is no problem inside the transmission. Which is good.

With rod 2 still disconnected from the shift tube 1, I turned the ignition key to ON position, pressed brake pedal to be able to move the shift lever out of Park. It went out of P all the way to D3 and GOT STUCK... Something inside the steering column does not let it go any farther DESPITE the notch 4 allows for movement... The lever 1 of the shift tube needs to go just another half an inch to allow the U-shaped shift lever 3 to click into D2 and then D1 position.

I would like to emphasize that the pointer adjustment was confirmed with putting the U-shaped shift lever in Neutral position and checking out the position of the pointer.

CONCLUSION. Shift links are perfectly adjusted, but something in steering column does not allow the shift tube, the shift bowl and the shift lever on the column to move behind D3 position.

I hope my description of the situation is clear. Again, the car drives fine and the transmission goes through all the gears automatically. I just cannot put it in D2 or D1 MANUALLY. I would not care much about it since I only use MANUAL shifts to D3 on steep hills. My only concern is that I do not know what is going on inside the steering column. IF the problem worsens I will not be able to shift transmission manually say out of P some day. That can leave me stranded if I do not have a helper which would keep the car under control while I am disconnecting the rod 2 from the shift tube lever 1 to put transmission in D by pushing the rod 2 with hand just to make it home!

[KHE]

Time to tear into the column and see what's preventing the lever from reaching D2 and D3.

[adallak]

Time to tear into the column and see what's preventing the lever from reaching D2 and D3.

Yep. Because I do not have all the special tools, it will take several disassemblings/assemblings before it is done. Nice opening of 2010 repair season!

[adallak]

Time to tear into the column and see what's preventing the lever from reaching D2 and D3.

Yep. Because I do not have all the special tools, it will take several disassemblings/assemblings before it is done. Nice opening of 2010 repair season!

Here is another related diagram which shows the shift components inside the steering column.

[BodybyFisher]

Good diagnosis Adallak, honing in on the column creating the problem.

You know that Logan is familiar with steering columns, why don't you reach out to him

[adallak]

Good diagnosis Adallak, honing in on the column creating the problem.

You know that Logan is familiar with steering columns, why don't you reach out to him

Thanks Mike. I'll send Logan a PM.