Caddyboy86 Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Love this place. Long time lurker, first time poster... So my 94 Seville STS does nothing when I put the key in to turn it over. Everything lights up... computer (no codes), radio, everything works as usual. Car in Park, all is normal. Battery is new with 14V. The key goes in fine, turns fine. I get the ding ding ding interior bell, then go to the ignition, and ZERO happens. Complete no start. Zero. What has scewed up? Is it ignition related? Key related? Tranny related? I'd love ideas on what to troubleshoot. Thanks in advance Caddy guys!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Try removing and cleaning your battery cables, especially the positive cable. The positive cable has a lead lug between two cables, you must take the red insulator off and clean the two cables inside, the lead lug etc, its possible your starter cable is corroded. Do you get a click or do the lights dim at all, when you turn the key? Did this just occur suddenly, or have you been having intermittant problems Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Have you tried taking it OUT of PARK and putting it in NEUTRAL and trying to start it? It could be the NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH is messed up or out of adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterset Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Do you have any aftermarket alarm system installed with a cutoff? If so, or you are not sure, check out if there are modfications made under the steering column. Possibly a bad after market relay from the alarm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddyboy86 Posted July 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 We will leave no Caddy left behind!!! Try cleaning your battery cables, especially the positive cable. Do you get a click or do the lights dim at all, when you turn the key? Did this just occur suddenly, or have you been having intermittant problems Cleaned cables REALLY good. Lights don't dim at all. I am getting a click under the hood! Sudden problem. Have you tried taking it OUT of PARK and putting it in NEUTRAL and trying to start it? It could be the NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH is messed up or out of adjustment. Tried it in NEUTRAL. Nothing. Same as in PARK. I get a click, but that's it. Do you have any aftermarket alarm system installed with a cutoff? No aftermarket anything. No cutoff. That rules that out! Good try though! More... We're getting there guys! Keep the troubleshooting coming! One of these next ideas will be it! We're close I can feel it... or is that my wallet that I feel trying to open up?? NOOoooO!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 The aftermarket alarm systen can really cause a problems. Just about 12-18 months the problems really start showing up. Check the starter 'enable relay'. It's under the door close out trim panel. About 1/2 way between the seat belt and the parking brake. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmendo Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 while I very much agree with both BBF and the Texas cannonballer ... if, you are hearing a click, try to find it ... is it in the car or under the hood ... and, if under the hood, then get someone to turn the key for you ... you can't go wrong, by doing as BBF said and cleaning the cables well ... the pos.(+). esp. ... there are about three different wires all coming there together ... and you must force, some of them, into coming out of the rubber of the Pos. connection ... but , as I am somewhat lazy at times ... I would be looking for the clicking sound ... tell us, more about your cars history ... Sméagol needs more input master... don't rule out, a bad main body ground (-) either ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 If you are at all a very good DIY mechanic your wallet won't be involved. The guys have hit the high spots, in order of likelihood: Battery low or old; your lights don't dim so that's not it. Battery cable, particularly at the positive battery terminal. There are three cables that hook there, one of them to the starter, one to the alternator, and the third to the main fuse/breaker/relay box behind the air cleaner. I still think this one has possibilities. The transmission neutral switch can get off-center. This happens a lot in Fords but is possible in any car. This has been mentioned. The resistor in your key might have worn or bad contacts, and when the car sees a bad resistance, the car won't start for 3 minutes. The starter solenoid might be dirty or whatever, or the starter motor might be tired. This is verrry rare. I would ask two questions at this point: Have you run the OBD trouble codes? Have you tried holding the key in Start with the transmission in Neutral while gently nudging the gearshift lever back and forth? In case you haven't run your OBD codes, here's how: http://www.caddyinfo.com/readingcodes.html If you don't have any codes that tell us anything and rocking the gearshift lever doesn't do it, the next thing I would to is make a project out of cleaning the positive battery cable at the terminal. Be sure and pry all three connectors out of the red plastic insulation and clean between them, and between the bolt and the first one. Make sure that the bolt tightens against the three-terminal sandwich when you put it back on the battery. It's possible that the car and alternator are getting good connections to the battery but that the starter is not. If so, that will fix it. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddyboy86 Posted July 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Check the starter 'enable relay'. It's under the door close out trim panel. About 1/2 way between the seat belt and the parking brake. So it's under the plastic running board beneath the driver door?? What should I look for?? Burnt, melted....what exactly??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddyboy86 Posted July 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 don't rule out, a bad main body ground (-) either ... Ground looks good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmendo Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 don't rule out, a bad main body ground (-) either ... Ground looks good. there are other types of body grounds too, follow the wires from the neg. wire, and see where they attach to the body ... is the click from the inside or the outside ??? and, as for the 14 volts ??? how do you get, 14 volts out of a car, that won't start ??? that only has a 12 volt battery ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmendo Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 If you are at all a very good DIY mechanic your wallet won't be involved. The guys have hit the high spots, in order of likelihood: Battery low or old; your lights don't dim so that's not it. Battery cable, particularly at the positive battery terminal. There are three cables that hook there, one of them to the starter, one to the alternator, and the third to the main fuse/breaker/relay box behind the air cleaner. I still think this one has possibilities. The transmission neutral switch can get off-center. This happens a lot in Fords but is possible in any car. This has been mentioned. The resistor in your key might have worn or bad contacts, and when the car sees a bad resistance, the car won't start for 3 minutes. The starter solenoid might be dirty or whatever, or the starter motor might be tired. This is verrry rare. I would ask two questions at this point: Have you run the OBD trouble codes? Have you tried holding the key in Start with the transmission in Neutral while gently nudging the gearshift lever back and forth? In case you haven't run your OBD codes, here's how: <a href="http://www.caddyinfo.com/readingcodes.html" target="_blank">http://www.caddyinfo.com/readingcodes.html</a> If you don't have any codes that tell us anything and rocking the gearshift lever doesn't do it, the next thing I would to is make a project out of cleaning the positive battery cable at the terminal. Be sure and pry all three connectors out of the red plastic insulation and clean between them, and between the bolt and the first one. Make sure that the bolt tightens against the three-terminal sandwich when you put it back on the battery. It's possible that the car and alternator are getting good connections to the battery but that the starter is not. If so, that will fix it. dang Jersy Jim, I am most impress sir ... I know a gearhead, when I see one ... sweet ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddyboy86 Posted July 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 IT'S A MIRACLE!! Well, I have a good news update!! It started!!! Thing is, I have to put the key in, and turn it forward while REALLY putting downward force on it. So we've narrowed it down to the key area!!! So what does this mean?? Key is no good? Cylinder is no good?? Wiring in there is wasted?? What next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddyboy86 Posted July 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 how do you get, 14 volts out of a car, that won't start ??? that only has a 12 volt battery ??? A batt charger will charge up a 12V to 14V +/- Just now driving around the block, the OBC said 14.1V So I have her running, and I have it narrowed down to the key area. It feels like a wiring issue, and NOT what I want to deal with, then again, I don't want to pay $750 in labor at the stealer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmendo Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 how do you get, 14 volts out of a car, that won't start ??? that only has a 12 volt battery ??? A batt charger will charge up a 12V to 14V +/- Just now driving around the block, the OBC said 14.1V So I have her running, and I have it narrowed down to the key area. It feels like a wiring issue, and NOT what I want to deal with, then again, I don't want to pay $750 in labor at the stealer... Sweet, I was just debating, whether I was going to ask you, if you had tried wiggling the key, while you were trying to start it ... I go for the easy stuff first ... stick with us here and we will hook you up if we can ... the squeaky wheel gets the grease ... welcome Sir ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 It's almost certainly a worn resistor connection on the key. I have to get a new key every two or three years because my keyring has keys for my wife's car and my motorcycle on it and some other stuff, and it's really too heavy to be hanging on my key while I'm driving, but I do it anyway. If it's not the key, then you may need a new switch in the steering column. There are guys here who have done that job who will chime in real soon now. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddyboy86 Posted July 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 It's almost certainly a worn resistor connection on the key. I have to get a new key every two or three years because my keyring has keys for my wife's car and my motorcycle on it and some other stuff, and it's really too heavy to be hanging on my key while I'm driving, but I do it anyway. If it's not the key, then you may need a new switch in the steering column. There are guys here who have done that job who will chime in real soon now. I HOPE it's just a new key!! That would be great if that's all it was. Aside from a no start, are there any other symptoms of a wasted switch in the column?? Sweet, I was just debating, whether I was going to ask you, if you had tried wiggling the key, while you were trying to start it ... It's more than just a wiggle, I'm putting some fair pressure downward as I turn it forward. I guess I will try a new key at the dealer and see if that does it... What a night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmendo Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 "A battery charger will charge up a 12V to 14V +/- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- my family, owns a golf course and I have spent 30+ years dealing with electric golf cart batteries ??? but, just the same, so what ... let's stick to fixing your car dawg ... my bad ... let's just try to narrow it down ... need more input ... I would be most happy, to help you, fix your problems if I can ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmendo Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 "A battery charger will charge up a 12V to 14V +/- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ it sounds to me,like you are well on the right track ... and this, might be a stupid suggestion, but I have had good luck in the past when dealing with stubborn key ways by adding a little lubricant ... granted, if it is the keys resistor, it would be a waste of time, but sometimes fixes are cheap ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Spray the key with WD40 and move it in and out of the lock cyliner to distribute the WD40 into the lock to clean the resistor contacts. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 A bad contact with the key will usually cause a DIC message related to the theft control, depending on the model and the type of DIC (analog, digital). Also, it will throw to codes, which will tell you what happened. I'm inclined to go with the bad switch inside the steering column, since there is no mention of DIC messages or codes. As expected, those with experience with this problem are here! -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 I really don't have experience with the VAT system, I just try to eliminate the obvious and easy things first. Dirty key or dirty contacts. Plus he never checked the codes, but you are correct a message would flash about the theft system. When I grease my car doors, hood hinges, weather striping etc, I usually do the locks including the ignition system. I have never had a problem with the resistor, I am surprised that they go bad. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddyboy86 Posted July 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 my family, owns a golf course and I have spent 30+ years dealing with electric golf cart batteries ??? Uh, okay then...??? I'm inclined to go with the bad switch inside the steering column, since there is no mention of DIC messages or codes. I think you have nailed it. My prob has to be in the column. Plus he never checked the codes, but you are correct a message would flash about the theft system First thing I ever do is check the codes when there's a problem. C'mon now... It only threw the battery codes from when I had the batt out to clean the cables. No DIC codes ever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 First thing I ever do is check the codes when there's a problem. C'mon now... It only threw the battery codes from when I had the batt out to clean the cables. No DIC codes ever... But you did not state that you did. Given that this is your first thread, we can not assume that you did check them, not all owners know to check the codes. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddyboy86 Posted July 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 But you did not state that you did. Given that this is your first thread, we can not assume that you did check them, not all owners know to check the codes. Scotty, you are funny! My first post said NO CODES. You can't assume that noobs check codes, BUT at the same time, you can't "AS.S-U-ME" that they don't... Your "WD-40 on the key" advice seems to have helped. I don't have to torgue downward on the key that much now to start it, But at least I definitely know my probs are with the cylinder or the key. Thank you for your help, oh annoited one. Respect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.