New to this Board

[Va Maddog]

I picked up a one owner 95 SLS (99k) on Ebay last week, flew down to Miami to pick it up and drove the 1,000 miles home without any problems. Got ~28 mph at 75 mph w/air on, so I was real happy about that.

I don't have any maintenance history so I plan to have the trans fluid and filter changed and the cooling system flushed. Thought that I could get another 10k out of the Michelins but discovered a tear in one side wall that was a safety issue, so it now has a new set of tires.

I think that I'll get a new air filter. Right now the engine starts great when cold or hot. If I resart it when it is warm it may take 2 or 3 tries or a long crank. Any ideas on what might cause that? Any thoughts about having the fuel injection system cleaned?

Both front and rear alignment were off, now that it is correct suspension feel has improved. Before it "yawed" after a road dip, now it seems fine.

I really like this car so far and am looking forward to being a board member here. Looks like you folks have a ton of great info and experience to share.

Oh - I'll need a front plate braket - sounds like they are hard to come by for less than $60 bucks. Anyone have one for a 95 that they don't need?

Thanks in advance for your advice!

[Bruce Nunnally]

Welcome. Glad your purchase is working out so well.

Try gmpartsdirect.com or gmotors.com for discount new parts.

[stsjoe]

you in Virginia Mad Dog/ if so were

Joe

[JasonA]

Welcome to the board, and congratulations on your new purchase! You'll find that with the SLS, you'll beat the EPA fuel economy numbers (17/26) every time. I average about 20/29 with mine.

When you have the coolant and transmission fluid changed, which is a great idea, only have them drain and refill. Don't have them to flush. Repeat, Don't, with a capital 'D'! A flush machine can introduce contamination into your system, and at best, is only as good as a drain/refill anyway. Don't let the shop sell you a flush service. Many folks here and elsewhere have reported problems after having flushing services performed (mostly on their transmissions). Also, verify that the shop will install the cooling system supplement tabs (provide them to the shop if they don't know what you're talking about). You can get these from the GM dealership for about 3 bucks/package. Have the shop just slip them into the lower radiator hose before they reconnect it. Do not let them put these into the overflow tank because they won't get distributed throughout the system. They've gotta be installed in a radiator hose to get the full benefit and eliminate problems.

Good luck!

[growe3]

One of the first things on your list should be to change the coolant.

It is not necessary or desirable to flush the system. Just drain coolant, remove the lower radiator hose at the water pump and add two tubes af Bars Leak Golden Seal, reattach and fill with a 50/50 mix of coolant.

Use the proper coolant type, do not mix or change between green or orange, they are not compatible.

Fresh coolant is very important to these engines and keeping it fresh can hold off expensive engine damage from corrosion.

Do a search on "coolant" and you will find much more on this important issue.

Next a set of new spark plugs should help with starting. Use dual platinum type; AC, Champion, or other major brand.

-George

[Ranger]

Welcome aboard maddog. Seems most of your questions have been answered regarding cooling system and trans. Heed their advice! The only thing I would add regarding your slow starting is check the FPR. It seems to be a common cause for slow starts.

[Marika]

From a well seasoned (paprika, salt and peppered all over) member to a newbie,

WELCOME!

[Randy_W]

I just want to say one thing about transmission flushing. It need not be a problem causer. The reason behind most failures after a flush is because flushing breaks loose all the crud inside the unit. Then when you run it all that junk clogs the filter and prevents fresh fluid from being circulated==Failure!! I have found over the years that flushing is fine and indeed benificial if properly done. After the flush run the car in gear for about 5 minutes, thenm drop the pan and change the filter and replace the lost fluid. This may seem like a waste of a few quarts of fluid, but it is cheap insurance. I have done this and found the filter virtually plugged a few times! Just my 2 cents.

[JohnnyG]

Don't EVER say the work FLUSH on this board...How's that for seasoned?

[Bob D]

I just want to say one thing about transmission flushing. It need not be a problem causer. The reason behind most failures after a flush is because flushing breaks loose all the crud inside the unit. Then when you run it all that junk clogs the filter and prevents fresh fluid from being circulated==Failure!! I have found over the years that flushing is fine and indeed benificial if properly done. After the flush run the car in gear for about 5 minutes, thenm drop the pan and change the filter and replace the lost fluid. This may seem like a waste of a few quarts of fluid, but it is cheap insurance. I have done this and found the filter virtually plugged a few times! Just my 2 cents.

Let me just say "one" thing about transmission flushing: (this was written by a seasoned engineer that has been on the Cadillac powertain design team for 30+ years now..)

">Never, ever flush a trans. There is no "safe" way to flush a trans unless you own the flush machine and control it yourself.

Flushing a trans has several pitfalls...

The most obviuos is that the last vehicle hooked up to that flushing machine probably was on it's last leg and was generating tons of debris. Most owners, when the trans starts to act up, rush to get a "flush" in the fervent hope that it will cure the problem. So....flush machines, by definition, see the worst of the worst. If the lines aren't cleaned, hooked up improperly, oil is reused or recycled, etc....then you are screwed as your trans gets the dose of debris from the last trans. No matter how good the intentions of the shop, one simple mistake and your trans gets the debris.

Flushing is supposed to negate the need for removing the pan, cleaning the debris and replacing the filter.....BS. There is considerable debris coating the inside of the trans pan with miles as anyone who has done this can attest. That is part of the maintenance, removing the pan, cleaning the screens and replacing the filter and cleaning the pan.

All that debris in the pan is laying around in areas where there is little oil flow by definition...it tends to settle in the areas where the oil is quiet and just lies there not hurting anything....until the "flush" stirs it up and circulates it thru the trans. What a concept....LOL

Reverse flush.....?????.....what logic makes anyone think that it is a good idea to reverse the oil flow path in a reverse flush and flush sediment and debris into areas that are normally protected by filters, etc...???? Stupid idea. Period. No other way to describe it.

"Transmission flush" machines are money makers for the shops and dealerships because they are quick and easy and they can actually charge more money for it under the guise of it being "better" for the trans....when it is really a detriment....suckers born every day......

Read the factory service manuals and point out the place where a transmission "flush" is recommended.

So what if all the oil cannot be removed. A "flush" doesn't remove it all either.

If you really really want to replace as much oil as possible in the trans, drain the pan, service it by removing/cleaning/changing the filter and reassemble. Refill the trans with fresh fluid. Disconnect one of the cooler lines at the radiator, put it into a bucket and start the engine. Let the trans oil pump purge the old oil into the bucket so that nothing is subjected to abnormal oil flow. Start pouring oil into the trans to keep it full while the idling engine/trans oil pump purges the fluid thru the system. Easy and quick and gets ALL the fluid out....and eliminates any risk of hooking up to a "flush machine".

Be aware that on the Northstar engines/4T80E transmissions there is a hidden drain plug for the trans side cover that requires that the bottom pan be removed to drain the side cover oil storage area. The idea of flushing a 4T80E is even more ludicrous than a 4T60 trans for this reason.

The 4T60 and 4T80 transmissions are similar in that both store oil in the side cover...but they do it differently. The 4T60 trans with the 4.x engines stores oil in the side cover only when HOT. There is a bimetal thermostatic valve that closes causing side cover oil to be trapped behind a wier or dam. So, change the oil in a 4T60 trans when it is cold to get the most oil out.... The 4T80 trans is a dry sump unit that ALWAYS stores it's oil in the side cover. There is a scavenge pump that scavenges the oil from the bottom pan to the side cover all the time. That is why there is a hidden drain plug underneath the bottom pan to drain the side cover when the pan is off for service.

Guys....FORGET THE IDEA OF FLUSHING YOUR TRANSMISSIONS. Normal trans maintenance is a good idea. Drop the bottom pan, change the filter and clean everything up and refill the trans with fresh fluid. Do the cooler line/bucket purge if you are really fastidious about changing all the fluid.....but....DO NOT hook your trans up to a flush machine.

Really now, would you get a blood transfusion from an unknown source that is reusing needles......about the same thing if you think about it. A flush will do absolutly nothing more than a good drain and refill will accomplish...and potentially a lot of harm. Do not take the risk. Just because some have had good experiences (or the lack of a bad experience) with a flush does NOT mean that they will always go good.<"

[adallak]

indeed if you are bored and not too much is under discussion at the forum ...just say "Transmission Flush" and it will open the gates!

Do net ever flush the tranny or you'll get STD (Someone elses Transmission Debris)

[Ranger]

Do net ever flush the tranny or you'll get STD (Someone elses Transmission Debris)

VERY well put!

[JasonA]

Do net ever flush the tranny or you'll get STD (Someone elses Transmission Debris)

I LIKE IT!!!

[Va Maddog]

Thanks for the warm welcome and great advice guys, especially Guru and bob D who took so much time to outline thier advice!

I'm gong to nix the fuel injection cleaning and try to follow Guru's step by step with the tooth brush.

I will also check the FPR and the injectors as suggested to try to narrow down the cause of the hard(er) starting when the engine is warm. (Starts on the first try when cold or hot, it is the in between engine temp that it does not seem to like for example parked for 15-60 minutes after being hot)

I was going to have the garage do the trans and coolant change just so they had the mess, but now I'm thinking about doing it myself after reading all of your comments. The coolant change seems pretty straight forward.

Should I have any concerns about messing up the transmission pan drop/filter change/screen cleaning? What fluid should I use to wipe everything clean with or should I just use dry rags to wipe out the pan and screens? Might have to splurg on a large drain pan...

Guru - I appreciate your other hints on things to check - I'll be printing this out and trying to follow your step-by-step.

Is there a decent source out there for a home repair/maintenance manual that won't cost $120? The site that is linked here from the main page had that cost, which I thought was a bit steep but I guess that it was for the official GM service manual that also covered other 95 CAD models. That is probably more than I need.

I'm going to put up a thread on the parts forum to see if anyone has an old 95 manual, perhaps from a previously owned SLS/STS that they might not want anymore.

I hear your advice not to think that the sky is falling because all of the problems find there way here - all cars need repair and maintenance if you want to keep them as close to 100% as possible.

I don't know if anyone here has owned an original series Q45, I had a 91. That was a really nice car and engine and it had a great Bose sound system. So far, my SLS is quieter, the stereo is even better and it gets about 2-3 mph better than the Q. I am impressed by this car. The one I bought is the optional for 95 Pearl Red paint and with the light beige leather interior it really looks great. I'll post a pic some day. I'm lucky because the original owners ordered the SLS with the optional leather buckets w/lumbar, upgraded the Bose, added heated seats and the sunroof so it is a really nice SLS. Thanks again for the advice and pointers.

[adallak]

I'm gong to nix the fuel injection cleaning and try to follow Guru's step by step with the tooth brush.

easy with brush. i remember a horror story - a broken brush in the EGR lines. ask the guys, they'll tell you...

[Ranger]

The official GM manual by Helm is the only way to go. They are worth their weight in gold especially if they help diagnose one problem. You'll probably never get out of a repair shop for less than $120. Several people have said they found them on ebay.

[Bob D]

The official GM manual by Helm is the only way to go. They are worth their weight in gold especially if they help diagnose one problem. You'll probably never get out of a repair shop for less than $120. Several people have said they found them on ebay.

Definitely try E-bay. I got the pair (they are two part) of factory manuals for my'93 there for around 50-60 bucks. There is NO substitute!

[Randy_W]

">Never, ever flush a trans. There is no "safe" way to flush a trans unless you own the flush machine and control it yourself.

Flushing a trans has several pitfalls...

The most obviuos is that the last vehicle hooked up to that flushing machine probably was on it's last leg and was generating tons of debris. Most owners, when the trans starts to act up, rush to get a "flush" in the fervent hope that it will cure the problem. So....flush machines, by definition, see the worst of the worst. If the lines aren't cleaned, hooked up improperly, oil is reused or recycled, etc....then you are screwed as your trans gets the dose of debris from the last trans. No matter how good the intentions of the shop, one simple mistake and your trans gets the debris.

Flushing is supposed to negate the need for removing the pan, cleaning the debris and replacing the filter.....BS. There is considerable debris coating the inside of the trans pan with miles as anyone who has done this can attest. That is part of the maintenance, removing the pan, cleaning the screens and replacing the filter and cleaning the pan.

"

I do own the machine and I do control it myself! I bought it over thirty years ago, you see flushing isn't a new idea! If the machine is properly handled and maintained it won't matter if the last tranny hooked to it pumped 5lbs. of sand through it! I have never "re-used" fluids to make an extra buck. "One simple mistake" when you service it conventionally "and you are screwed as well.

I would never, ever, flush a tranny without removing the pan and replacing the filter afterward, which by the way I said, in case you didn't really read my post, and just saw 'flush' and went off the deep end!

Nothing in your post contridicts what I said in mine. It says the same thing, if done correctly it's a perfectly good procedure!

As for disturbing sediment, why would it? If you read the directions and use the manual, the flush is done at the same pressures your transmission encounters in daily use! Why would that cause a problem?

Granted improperly done, it can be a disaster, (but so can an oil change) properly done, it's fine! Say what you want, thirty years of doing it without a problem constitutes a lot more than luck!

If your shop uses a $10 an hour guy off the street to do high tech service, or they don't properly service or use the equipment, you probably need a new shop!

I may be new to your forum, i'm not new to the world! I remember when fuel injection was 'evil', too. Believe what you want, there is nothing wrong with flushing a tranny if it is correctly done, period!

[Randy_W]

Guru, I weas speaking in general terms about flushing, I do it because I get a greater exchange of fluid than just dropping the pan. I drop the pan and change the filter afterwards because it's the only to know for sure youhave a clean filter! As for the 4T80, honestly, I've never done one! I was just getting ready to look into it. I don't do this stuff for a living and haven't for 25 years! I just kept my tools and equipment, since I collect classic cars and drive them a lot it made sense for me. I never said flushing was an end all process, I just said it doesn't have to be a problem if done correctly! You are right, if you are dealing with an incompetant shop, you can get screwed!!

My problem was with the tone of the response, I'm not an idiot who just fell off the turnip truck! If you see me reply here it will be because I know something about it or I want to know more. This is a great forum, that might be able to profit from a little less 'holier than thou', attitude. I have a lot to learn about my Seville, but general automotive principles apply to most vehicles.

Thanks for a great forum!................Randy

[Vince P]

Back to the Orignal Topic. We got carried away with a discussion on Flushing Transmissions.

In addition to what Bob B suggested, I would add the following:

1. Change the Brake fluid by bleeding (recently discussed)

2. Change the Serpentine Belts, both main belt and that belt that drives the Water pump. At this point you do not know how long they have been on the car.

3. Grease the idler pulley bearings (wile your are changing the belts)

4. Grease the 4 grease fittings on the car (2 tie rod ends and 2 lower ball joints).

Vince P

1994 SLS

148K miles

[STYES]

Add me to the list of "don't flush anything" users! The WOT procedure should be used, once a week. I wasn't a fan of it, but Guru convinced me to do it. I haven't seen a reduction in oil consumption, or an increase in MPG. But my wife has told me that I did something, because her car just runs better. Yes, your car can, and probably will use some oil. It is normal! Even a quart per 1000 miles is normal, and it is in the service manual. Welcome to the forum, and never again purchase a Nissan, oops I'm sorry, an Infinity! It is hard for me to distinguish cars when the only difference is the badge!