Onezfynest Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 New to this forum and brand new owner of a Black 1992 Cadillac Seville. The car is beautiful. Well taken care on the inside and out....no rust, factory paint still looks good, and engine seems to be very responsive. my problem....my a/c compressor. Information display notifies me that coolant is low and the compressor is OFF. no bid deal, right. I will just wait until the Spring rolls around and replace it. Well, hopefully that is the case but since I have no mechanical skills whatsoever....I can only hope. Anyway, the serpentine belt was just replaced and I notice a whining noise coming from the belt. I figured it had something to do with the compressor or my a/c pulley and I could just wait to get it fixed. However, the other day, I noticed some smoke coming from under the hood. Popped the hood and saw that the smoke looked like it was coming up from under the serpentine belt. The belt doesnt look like it is wearing or anything and like I said it is new. Does anyone know what might be causing the smoke? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Like I said, I dont know much about cars and I wish I could provide better information.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onezfynest Posted October 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 also...can anyone tell me which pulley is which on my vehicle. I believe I located the pulley that is having problems but unfortunately, I dont which function it corresponds with?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 Welcome. First off, lets not confuse things. "Coolant" is anti-freeze. You are refering to refrigerant for the A/C system. The whining noise is obviously a bearing. Could be the idler, tensioner, alternator or A/C clutch. Assuming that it is smoke and not steam (water pump), somethng is getting very hot. Be it steam or smoke, don't wait to get it checked out. Something is amiss and it is warning you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 Here is a diagram, tell us what pulley is bad. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onezfynest Posted October 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 Ranger, thanks for your help. I appreciate the help. So the display that reads "Coolant Level Low" and the one the reads "A/C Compressor OFF" are not related?? on that diagram, I believe it is the pulley located to the right of the one labeled 'CS'. I think that is my a/c pulley but obviously I am not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 Ranger, thanks for your help. I appreciate the help. So the display that reads "Coolant Level Low" and the one the reads "A/C Compressor OFF" are not related?? on that diagram, I believe it is the pulley located to the right of the one labeled 'CS'. I think that is my a/c pulley but obviously I am not sure. Are you sure it is not "Refrigirant low" instead of "Coolant low'? I am not sure there is a coolant level sensor. Yes that is AC pulley. Probably it caused the belt to fail. The owner just decided to replace the belt and sell the car. There were people who claimed the AC on 4.8 engine may be bypassed with a shorter serp. belt. I am not sure of that since as you can see the water pump pulley will not get much grip with a shorter belt. But who knows? You might want to experiment with a shorter belt to avoid expensive AC replacement and have drivable car right away. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 If the DIC says "Coolant level low" he needs about two quarts of anti-freeze. I would change the coolant and add the pellets to the lower radiator hose. If the coolant is being blown out the overflow tank, it is coming through the radiator cap and out the overflow hose -- probably onto the serpentine belt. That could cause it to slip. I would solve the cooling system problem ASAP and the serpentine belt probelm might go away. Also, we might look at the codes. The diagnotic codes can be pulled of according to these instructions: http://www.caddyinfo.com/readingcodes.html -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 If the DIC says "Coolant level low" he needs about two quarts of anti-freeze. I would change the coolant and add the pellets to the lower radiator hose. If the coolant is being blown out the overflow tank, it is coming through the radiator cap and out the overflow hose -- probably onto the serpentine belt. That could cause it to slip. I would solve the cooling system problem ASAP and the serpentine belt probelm might go away. Also, we might look at the codes. The diagnotic codes can be pulled of according to these instructions: http://www.caddyinfo.com/readingcodes.html I am sure this is not about antifreeze (coolant) but the cooling agent (freonlike) in AC system. There is no coolant level sensor on 4.9 so there cannot be coolant level low message. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onezfynest Posted October 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 sure am glad I registered on this site...you guys are great. you know I looked all over the internet for a diagram of my pulley's?? Anyway...car is in the shop right now and I can only hope for the best. I figured I would post some of my questions here so I can understand my diagnosis. Again, thanks, and I will post again once I talk to my mechanic. you guys are probably right....i think it does say refrigerant level very low. I cant verify that cause, like I said, my car is in the shop. So if that is the reading, would I just need to add freon(refrigerant), have my a/c charged, or replace the compressor. Is it ok to add 'coolant' to the resovoir tank or should I have it flushed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 When the system is cold, take off the radiator cap and add coolant mixed 50/50 with distilled water to the radiator. Top off the overflow tank with the same mixture to the "full cold" mark. There is no need to flush the system unless it was severely neglected and is plugged. If you do not have the maintenance history on the car, it would be a good idea to drain the system and refill with fresh green coolant mixed 50/50 with distilled water. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 When you refill the cooling system as KHE said do not forget to add two tubes of Bar's Leaks (Wal-Mart $1.44) powder. It's a must fro all 4.9 engines. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Ranger, thanks for your help. I appreciate the help. So the display that reads "Coolant Level Low" and the one the reads "A/C Compressor OFF" are not related?? on that diagram, I believe it is the pulley located to the right of the one labeled 'CS'. I think that is my a/c pulley but obviously I am not sure. Correct, they are two seperate and unrelated systems. The pully you discribe "to the right of the CS" (CrankShaft) is indeed the A/C compressor. It may be just the clutch bearing going and smoking, in which case you could just replace the clutch and not the entire compressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 . . . . in which case you could just replace the clutch and not the entire compressor. DO NOT let anyone talk you into replacing the entire compressor if only the clutch is bad. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onezfynest Posted October 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Well that would be a relief...I know I can afford to get the clutch replaced if the bearing is going. I just want drive my 'Lac. Such a smooth and elegant car...I think I am in love Assuming their are no leaks, can I conclude that smoke coming from that area is related to my a/c cluth or one of my other bearings? If so, what labor is involved in replacing the parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Once it begins to smoke its overheating bad enough to damage the seal. Mine overheated so badly that it damaged the seal, and melted the windings on the clutch and shorted them out blowing the fuse. I had to pull the plug on the compressor. See post #16 in this thread of my AC system work that shows the compressor overheated: http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...p;hl=compressor Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Well that would be a relief...I know I can afford to get the clutch replaced if the bearing is going. I just want drive my 'Lac. Such a smooth and elegant car...I think I am in love Assuming their are no leaks, can I conclude that smoke coming from that area is related to my a/c cluth or one of my other bearings? If so, what labor is involved in replacing the parts. If it does appear you have to replace whole thing, and you cannot afford it, consider bypassing the AC with a shorter belt. I never tried that, but someone told he did that with no problems. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onezfynest Posted October 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 my mechanic told me he could just remove the A/C clutch and that would eliminate the smoking. He also confirmed that I need a new compressor but he quoted me some relatively low repair cost. Anyway, I figure I will just remove the clutch and wait till next spring to take care of my compressor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fretbuzz470 Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Normally I would agree to just replace the A/C clutch if you can do the work yourself, but in this case I would go with your mechanics recomendation. It's a 14 year old compressor that ran on low refrigerant (which also means low refrigerant oil) and had not a noisy but a smoking clutch. That excess heat and low oil while it was still running will cause you problems in another year so don't pay the labor twice to remove the compressor. Most GM low refrigerant switches disable the system off at 1/2 lb of refrigerant and if I remember correctly that system holds 2.25lbs. The whole time you have been loosing refrigerant the oil has been going along with it. Also i dont know if your mechanic has brought this to your attention but when replacing your compressor the manufacturer will not honor the warentee if the orface tube and Accumulator are not replaced at the same time. While getting that done you might as well convert the system to a 134a system. The little extra for the fittings, flush solovent, pag oil will be about the same price as getting the r-12 replaced due to the 134a's cheeper price per lb. That way also if you run into oter problems that you need to refill the system down the road as r-12 get more and more expensive every year you will already have the much less expensive 134a. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onezfynest Posted October 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 am I at risk of causing any further damage by having the A/C clutch removed?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Normally I would agree to just replace the A/C clutch if you can do the work yourself, but in this case I would go with your mechanics recomendation. It's a 14 year old compressor that ran on low refrigerant (which also means low refrigerant oil) and had not a noisy but a smoking clutch. That excess heat and low oil while it was still running will cause you problems in another year so don't pay the labor twice to remove the compressor. Most GM low refrigerant switches disable the system off at 1/2 lb of refrigerant and if I remember correctly that system holds 2.25lbs. The whole time you have been loosing refrigerant the oil has been going along with it. Also i dont know if your mechanic has brought this to your attention but when replacing your compressor the manufacturer will not honor the warentee if the orface tube and Accumulator are not replaced at the same time. While getting that done you might as well convert the system to a 134a system. The little extra for the fittings, flush solovent, pag oil will be about the same price as getting the r-12 replaced due to the 134a's cheeper price per lb. That way also if you run into oter problems that you need to refill the system down the road as r-12 get more and more expensive every year you will already have the much less expensive 134a. The system capacity is 2.0 lbs. I would keep the car R-12 as it will not cool as well with R-134a due to the type of condenser. Also, many retrofitters install a lesser amount of R-134a than what is specified for R-12 - this will cause the low refriferant code to set and disable the system. The old mineral oil will need to be flushed from the system and that will add to the cost of the job. The price of R-12 is has actually stabilized as the demand has fallen off considering the last new car to use R-12 was 1993 and many people won't sink money into a 13+ year old car for air conditioning repairs. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 my mechanic told me he could just remove the A/C clutch and that would eliminate the smoking. He also confirmed that I need a new compressor but he quoted me some relatively low repair cost. Anyway, I figure I will just remove the clutch and wait till next spring to take care of my compressor... You stated he's going to "remove the clutch". Is he going to replace the clutch or remove it and put on a shorter belt to bypass it? If he's bypassing it, and your compressor is bad, then I wouldn't replace the clutch, as new or rebuilt compressors come with new clutches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onezfynest Posted October 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 he actually just took my clutch out which proved not to be a good option. A few days after my mechanic removed my a/c cluth, my a/c pulley locked up. Had to end up gettin a used compressor w/ a clutch and now I am back on the road. Since I only had to paylike $150 for labor and the used parts, I figured why not. Could have just gotten a new clutch and waited till next spring to get my compressor replaced but since most compressors come with a clutch, when this used one goes, I'll just pay to install a new one then. Does anyone have a diagram for my engine compartment...'92 Cadillac Seville?? Or know where I can find one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 he actually just took my clutch out which proved not to be a good option. A few days after my mechanic removed my a/c cluth, my a/c pulley locked up. Had to end up gettin a used compressor w/ a clutch and now I am back on the road. Since I only had to paylike $150 for labor and the used parts, I figured why not. Could have just gotten a new clutch and waited till next spring to get my compressor replaced but since most compressors come with a clutch, when this used one goes, I'll just pay to install a new one then. Does anyone have a diagram for my engine compartment...'92 Cadillac Seville?? Or know where I can find one. So he originally just removed the clutch plate, and not the pulley/bearing assembly? I wonder why he thought just taking off the clutch plate would help? The pulley/bearing assembly was what was smoking no doubt. Oh well, atleast it's fixed for now. Did he charge up your used compressor and is it blowing cold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onezfynest Posted October 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 nope..he wanted to charge me another $100 to charge the compressor and I really dont need a/c right now in Nebraska so I passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 nope..he wanted to charge me another $100 to charge the compressor and I really dont need a/c right now in Nebraska so I passed. The AC comes on during defrost/defog, so you may miss it then, but you can get get by without it. It just may take longer in the mornings to clear your windshield. I have had a few vehicles where the AC didn't work, and made it through those winters. But then again, I don't live in Nebraska. It gets really cold there right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.