WarrenJ Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Okay, I was researching an entirely different topic. Someone suggested to me that these popular "monster caps," used by folk with gezzunda watt stereos, store an extraordinary amount of charge. Of course, they do! The concern was about auto mechanics thinking they had safely disabled the airbag system by disconnecting the battery when, in fact, there was still large amounts of energy available (via the monster cap) to ignite the airbags. BUT, that's a topic for another discussion. I don't doubt it will be persued here, however. Where was I? Oh yeah, I stumbled upon this article on airbags that I thought very strange. I'd always felt a measure of added safety having them around. Suddenly, it seems I'm wrong. Or am I? See this article: http://www.physorg.com/news4363.html Let's don't forget this is from June, '05. Perhaps other studies have corrected/modified/enhanced these points since then. Still, it's something to ponder . . . . BTW, that is a really neat website. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 An interesting, but not at all surprising article... The NHTSA "fought" for years to get these devices into our cars and we are starting to reap the "rewards"... First generation air bags contained enough explosive energy to "catch" an unrestrained 200 pound man in a 55 MPH crash... If you haven't seen this first hand, this is enough energy to explode an 100 pound pig carcass into bits... I got to witness this first hand when a local fire department set off an airbag during a safety demonstration. There are lots of sad stories of little kids, infants, and petite women who have been killed by these devices... There are a few stories of people who have been killed by the airbag when a fire fighter used the "jaws of life" to cut a steering column and as a result set of the airbag... There is a reason for all of those warning labels on the visor.. these things are dangerous... Second and now third generation (AKA smart bags) are clever enough to alter the deploy strength based on the weigh and proximity of the occupant... but even these have issues... Interesting the article skims over "injuries" there are lots of stories of air bags breaking forearms like twigs and imparting enough energy into the flailing limb to whip it back and break the drivers nose... ruptured eardrums have also been reported... Flash burns from the power, etc etc etc... Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCat83 Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Personally; I don't like air-bags and I don't like ABS either. I think the public has been sold a bill of goods about their effectiveness - kinda like trying to make cars idiot proof - if that will ever happen. And , if I recall, the igniters that set off the airbags are Class 3 explosives. I don't like Class 3 explosives only inches from my face. I've been kicking around the idea of disarming the airbags in my vehicles so... If you ever have to work around the airbags - disconnect the battery and WAIT 20 -30 minutes for that capacitor to bleed off it's charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted October 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 - kinda like trying to make cars idiot proof - if that will ever happen. Someone once said that if man made something "idiot proof," G_d would simply make a better idiot. Works where I live! Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted October 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Personally; I don't like air-bags and I don't like ABS either. Gary Busey didn't like motorcycle helmuts either . . . . seems he's changed his tune. Don't make 'em a bad thing. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hall Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Based upon numerous studies that I've read, airbags add very little or if any extra safety if the driver uses a seatbelt. Your best bet is to wear your seat belt and drive a heavy Cadillac. In a collision between a Cadillac and a Honda Civic, the Cadillac will always win because of the sheer mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 - kinda like trying to make cars idiot proof - if that will ever happen. Someone once said that if man made something "idiot proof," G_d would simply make a better idiot. Works where I live! Regards, Warren The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted October 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Based upon numerous studies that I've read, airbags add very little or if any extra safety if the driver uses a seatbelt. Your best bet is to wear your seat belt and drive a heavy Cadillac. In a collision between a Cadillac and a Honda Civic, the Cadillac will always win because of the sheer mass. Someone recently said, and I think it may have been on this board, that if you want a heavy V8 Coupe, you have two choices: an Eldorado or a Mercedes. Well, the choice was obvious for me. Lord help that puny Honda Civic Clown Car! Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hall Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Safety is one of the big reasons that I drive a Cadillac. I was thinking about getting rid of my 88 for something newer because it doesn't have airbags but then I found out that if I wear a seatbelt, an airbag is unlikely to add very much safety. If anything, an airbag exploding into the drivers face can dissable the driver from avoiding furthur catastrophe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted October 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 What, only two guffaws? I thought three were traditional. I think you owe me one? Regards, Warren If anything, an airbag exploding into the drivers face can dissable the driver from avoiding furthur catastrophe. I've often wondered about that. Absent experience though . . . . Okay, you've got me thinking: I wonder if anyone here has ever experienced an airbag deployment? That question should likely become a new thread. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted October 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Interesting the article skims over "injuries" there are lots of stories of air bags breaking forearms like twigs and imparting enough energy into the flailing limb to whip it back and break the drivers nose... ruptured eardrums have also been reported... Flash burns from the power, etc etc etc... Well . . . . . Given the choice between a broken nose, broken forearm or eardrum compared to DEATH, I don't think my choice would take much time. The airbag, hopefully, would take less time to deploy. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 At the other end of the spectrum, my decision between no injury and a ruptured eardrum or a broken arm would also be equally fast... Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted October 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 At the other end of the spectrum, my decision between no injury and a ruptured eardrum or a broken arm would also be equally fast... Hmnn . . . . you make fast decisions. Sometimes that's enviable. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Okay, I was researching an entirely different topic. Someone suggested to me that these popular "monster caps," used by folk with gezzunda watt stereos, store an extraordinary amount of charge. Of course, they do! The concern was about auto mechanics thinking they had safely disabled the airbag system by disconnecting the battery when, in fact, there was still large amounts of energy available (via the monster cap) to ignite the airbags. BUT, that's a topic for another discussion. I don't doubt it will be persued here, however. Where was I? Oh yeah, I stumbled upon this article on airbags that I thought very strange. I'd always felt a measure of added safety having them around. Suddenly, it seems I'm wrong. Or am I? See this article: http://www.physorg.com/news4363.html Let's don't forget this is from June, '05. Perhaps other studies have corrected/modified/enhanced these points since then. Still, it's something to ponder . . . . BTW, that is a really neat website. Regards, Warren In order to safely disable the airbags, the fuse must be removed AND the electrical connections under the hush panels to the bags must be disconnected - this is described in the FSM. Even then, be sure to wear safety glasses and handle the bag with care. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 I think Logan has done some research on this subject. Maybe he will chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 here in the UK, firefighters are told to wait 30 minutes before starting to cut you out of your airbag equipped car. thats 30 minutes from arriving, not you crashing. so much for the 'golden hour' of survival Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddypete Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 This has been a subject on my mind for awhile, airbag safety. I lost my nephew to a accident a few months ago. He was 17 years old. Doing what young males do, he was going over a short steep hill on a secondary road, at a rate of speed to jump the hill,well he came over the hill and bottomed the front end with a good amount of force as you can tell by the marks on the road.And I have been wondering if the airbag deployed at that time causing him to lose control, from point of impact he then went left of center hit a deep ditch catapulting his car into the air, then hitting a tree about 8 ft in the air, and pinballed in between five other trees killing both him and his passenger, the air bags both deployed and both were wearing seatbelts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted October 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 here in the UK, firefighters are told to wait 30 minutes before starting to cut you out of your airbag equipped car. thats 30 minutes from arriving, not you crashing. so much for the 'golden hour' of survival Just Speechless. There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted October 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 This has been a subject on my mind for awhile, airbag safety. I lost my nephew to a accident a few months ago. He was 17 years old. Doing what young males do, he was going over a short steep hill on a secondary road, at a rate of speed to jump the hill,well he came over the hill and bottomed the front end with a good amount of force as you can tell by the marks on the road.And I have been wondering if the airbag deployed at that time causing him to lose control, from point of impact he then went left of center hit a deep ditch catapulting his car into the air, then hitting a tree about 8 ft in the air, and pinballed in between five other trees killing both him and his passenger, the air bags both deployed and both were wearing seatbelts What a tragedy for your family! My condolences. It will be difficult never knowing . . . . Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith_99_sts Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 What a tragedy for your family! My condolences. It will be difficult never knowing . . . . Regards, Warren Most newer cars store this kind of information in their computers, so crash investigators can determine the cause (and the real reason for the technology, the car manufacturers can deny liability). It may indeed be possible to know if the airbags deployed after the car jumped the hill and first landed. Nonetheless, there is nothing that can bring back the nephew and passenger and it's a tragedy. Young kids often don't see the danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgr7 Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 It makes me sick to see people with there feet on the passenger side dash right over the air bag. I can only imagine what would happen to there feet, ankles and legs if they were in a front end crash. I've seen what those passenger side air bags do to the windshield when they pop off. The air bag cover breaks the windshield when it blows out of the dash to unleash the air bag. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted October 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 It makes me sick to see people with there feet on the passenger side dash right over the air bag. I can only imagine what would happen to there feet, ankles and legs if they were in a front end crash. I've seen what those passenger side air bags do to the windshield when they pop off. The air bag cover breaks the windshield when it blows out of the dash to unleash the air bag. Jeff It's scary you should say that. I was just discussing with someone about having a passenger in the "shotgun" seat in a reclined position. The manual says this is a no-no. Understandable! In a CRASH event, that person would be in a world of hurt! Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgr7 Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Very true warren they would slide right under the seat belt and fold up under the dash. What I was talking about is people sitting upright but with there feet up on the dash board right over the airbag panel. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 The windshield is used as a directional tool for the passenger air bag. The air bag modules DO record data. Crash data the GM Tech 2 CANNOT access. You need very specfic equipment... List of crash data..... AIR BAG SDM / BLACK BOX / EDR / CRASH DATA AVAILABLE (depending on year and model) Vehicle speed (in five one-second intervals preceding impact) Engine speed (in five one-second intervals preceding impact) Brake status (in five one-second intervals preceding impact) Throttle position (in five one-second intervals preceding impact) Driver's seat belt state (On/Off) Passenger's airbag enabled or disabled state (On/Off) Airbag Warning Lamp status (On/Off) Time from vehicle impact to airbag deployment Maximum Delta-V ( DV ) for near-deployment event Delta-V ( DV ) vs. time for frontal airbag deployment event Time from vehicle impact to time of maximum Delta-V ( DV ) Time between near-deploy and deploy event (if within 5 seconds) Additional crash data available 2006 and newer GM vehicles: Low tire pressure warning system status Traction control status Anti lock brake status Transmission range Service engine lamp status Vehicle door 2/4 status open/closed Outside air temperature degree Passenger seat belt switch Yaw rate Lateral acceleration Steering wheel angle PDOF / Principal direction of force degrees And more... See: http://www.airbagcrash.com Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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