ticking under hood

[nwtnan]

Hi again everyone,

We've acquired an 81 Fleetwood hearse, for commercial use.

Some bodywork and a fresh paint job, she looks very nice. mechanically it is sound, but there is a troublesome ticking sound from the engine when it's warmed up and idling. As you might imagine, during some aspects of its working life this could be somewhat embarassing.

Are we correct in assuming this indicates a rocker arm or rocker bar that might need replacing ?

Looking for some guidance as neither of us are mechanics in any way, and we're operating a small funeral home with limited dealer availability here in the frozen North..

Thanks,

[GreenMachine]

ticking can somtimes be a sign of the wrong oil. I'm not sure what the 81 Fleetwood requires, and the frozen north, but I'm sure someone here can help you out with that

[nwtnan]

ticking can somtimes be a sign of the wrong oil. I'm not sure what the 81 Fleetwood requires, and the frozen north, but I'm sure someone here can help you out with that

By frozen North I meant northern Canada. It's not frozen now of course, but during winter we do get - 35 C.

[BodybyFisher]

Since it only happens when warm, its probably a dirty or collapsed lifter. In the old days, I routinely used to pull the intake manifolds and pull the lifters and clean them, it made a world of difference.

You might try a can of MMO to see if you can free it up..

ticking can somtimes be a sign of the wrong oil. I'm not sure what the 81 Fleetwood requires, and the frozen north, but I'm sure someone here can help you out with that

By frozen North I meant northern Canada. It's not frozen now of course, but during winter we do get - 35 C.

It probably takes 10W40, and yes that is a good idea, it could be getting 10W30... What engine is in it?

[nwtnan]

Since it only happens when warm, its probably a dirty or collapsed lifter. In the old days, I routinely used to pull the intake manifolds and pull the lifters and clean them, it made a world of difference.

You might try a can of MMO to see if you can free it up..

ticking can somtimes be a sign of the wrong oil. I'm not sure what the 81 Fleetwood requires, and the frozen north, but I'm sure someone here can help you out with that

By frozen North I meant northern Canada. It's not frozen now of course, but during winter we do get - 35 C.

It probably takes 10W40, and yes that is a good idea, it could be getting 10W30... What engine is in it?

It is a V8... 368 according to the Caddy website. I bought it on line site unseen only by pictures.

Had it shipped up and much to my surprise it was nothing but a rust bucket under the paint job. Duct tape holding it together. Spent $5000.00 getting all the body work done and now it looks great.

Had it to the local mechanic today and he said the ticking was ok?? I don't want the car to tick especially during a funeral service.

I thank all of you for your help and any future help you could offer would be appreciated.

[Cadillac Jim]

They had three engines in the Fleetwood that hear -- a 4.1 liter Buick V6, the Olds 350 Diesel V8, and the Cadillac 368 CID. The Cadillac V8 came in two versions, a 4-6-8 variable displacement, and a digital fuel injection (DFI) version for the Eldorado and as an option in other models. In the hearse, you would likely have the Cadillac engine with the four-barrel carburetor. At idle, a 4-6-8 will be running on four cylinders, with the valve train leaving the valves closed on the other four. Check your VIN. It will have the form

1G6AZ906XB9100001

The Z90 in the fifth, sixth and seventh digits are for a commercial chassis. You probably have something else such as F23; if so it was built as a Fleetwood limousine and converted to a hearse by an aftermarket builder. There may be other differences. The last six digits are the production serial number.

The eighth digit, a 6 in the example, is the engine code. The 6 means the Cadillac V8 with the 368 CID and a four-barrel carburetor, which is a 4-6-8 variable displacement engine. If it is a 9, you have the DFI Eldorado V8 with DFI, also a variable displacement engine. If it is an N, the car was shipped with the diesel V8. If it is a 4, it was shipped with a V6.

If, as seems likely, you have one of the variable displacement engines, you may need to clean up the apparatus that shifts the rocker arm fulcrums to fix the click. After you do that, keep the oil clean and it should go forever. It's possible that the variable displacement apparatus has been removed and all you have is a bad valve lifter.

[GreenMachine]

If you can get some of the old time whitewalls that would really add to the class of the car. Its a real looker. Very nice restoration.

[WarrenJ]

If you can get some of the old time whitewalls that would really add to the class of the car. Its a real looker. Very nice restoration.

Yep. Needs whitewalls. I wouldn't want to go any other way.

Regards,

Warren

[KHE]

They had three engines in the Fleetwood that hear -- a 4.1 liter Buick V6, the Olds 350 Diesel V8, and the Cadillac 368 CID. The Cadillac V8 came in two versions, a 4-6-8 variable displacement, and a digital fuel injection (DFI) version for the Eldorado and as an option in other models. In the hearse, you would likely have the Cadillac engine with the four-barrel carburetor. At idle, a 4-6-8 will be running on four cylinders, with the valve train leaving the valves closed on the other four. Check your VIN. It will have the form

1G6AZ906XB9100001

The Z90 in the fifth, sixth and seventh digits are for a commercial chassis. You probably have something else such as F23; if so it was built as a Fleetwood limousine and converted to a hearse by an aftermarket builder. There may be other differences. The last six digits are the production serial number.

The eighth digit, a 6 in the example, is the engine code. The 6 means the Cadillac V8 with the 368 CID and a four-barrel carburetor, which is a 4-6-8 variable displacement engine. If it is a 9, you have the DFI Eldorado V8 with DFI, also a variable displacement engine. If it is an N, the car was shipped with the diesel V8. If it is a 4, it was shipped with a V6.

If, as seems likely, you have one of the variable displacement engines, you may need to clean up the apparatus that shifts the rocker arm fulcrums to fix the click. After you do that, keep the oil clean and it should go forever. It's possible that the variable displacement apparatus has been removed and all you have is a bad valve lifter.

All 368 cu-in. engines in 1981 had digital fuel injection and had the variable displacement "V8-6-4" feature.

[Cadillac Jim]

All 368 cu-in. engines in 1981 had digital fuel injection and had the variable displacement "V8-6-4" feature.

I would think so too. But, the Cadillac history site says that a 150 hp engine with a four-barrel carbuetor is standard for the 1981 Fleetwood and DeVille, and the Eldorado/Seville engine is a DFI engine rated at 140 hp. That was an odd year, with 0-60 mph times over 20 seconds and a V6 introduced as an economy engine in mid-year 1980, the first six-cylinder ever from Cadillac. So, it's possible that the carbureted engine was never sold, or only at the beginning of the year, or when DFI shortages prompted temporary measures on the production line. What do you know about the four-barrel 1981 engines?

[The Fred]

You can get rid of that stupid 4-6-8 by disconnecting a wire,

I've heard that several times..

Do this - go and buy some motor flush it comes in a grey bottle and costs $3... put it in the oil and idle the motor for five good minutes do not put the motor under load or drive it with motor flush in it..

Drain the oil - all of it - use the Fred Method.. after it is all drained pour a fresh quart of oil through it to get rid of what is left in the pan (you will see it push out all the dirty oil with it)

Refill and install a new filter

If that does not work, try to find something called valve medic.

Motor flush is good stuff - my 1991 Eldorado would always turn his oil black very quickly until I used that stuff one time. From then on the oil would come out after 3000 miles looking brand new. It had a body to it but still looked nearly new.

PS: I don't know why the motor would call for 10/40 but it sure ought to be quieter with the 40 than it would be with the 30

[nwtnan]

They had three engines in the Fleetwood that hear -- a 4.1 liter Buick V6, the Olds 350 Diesel V8, and the Cadillac 368 CID. The Cadillac V8 came in two versions, a 4-6-8 variable displacement, and a digital fuel injection (DFI) version for the Eldorado and as an option in other models. In the hearse, you would likely have the Cadillac engine with the four-barrel carburetor. At idle, a 4-6-8 will be running on four cylinders, with the valve train leaving the valves closed on the other four. Check your VIN. It will have the form

1G6AZ906XB9100001

The Z90 in the fifth, sixth and seventh digits are for a commercial chassis. You probably have something else such as F23; if so it was built as a Fleetwood limousine and converted to a hearse by an aftermarket builder. There may be other differences. The last six digits are the production serial number.

The eighth digit, a 6 in the example, is the engine code. The 6 means the Cadillac V8 with the 368 CID and a four-barrel carburetor, which is a 4-6-8 variable displacement engine. If it is a 9, you have the DFI Eldorado V8 with DFI, also a variable displacement engine. If it is an N, the car was shipped with the diesel V8. If it is a 4, it was shipped with a V6.

If, as seems likely, you have one of the variable displacement engines, you may need to clean up the apparatus that shifts the rocker arm fulcrums to fix the click. After you do that, keep the oil clean and it should go forever. It's possible that the variable displacement apparatus has been removed and all you have is a bad valve lifter.

The engine is the Cadillac V8 with the 368 CID and four barrel carb.

Thank you for your help!

You can get rid of that stupid 4-6-8 by disconnecting a wire,

I've heard that several times..

Do this - go and buy some motor flush it comes in a grey bottle and costs $3... put it in the oil and idle the motor for five good minutes do not put the motor under load or drive it with motor flush in it..

Drain the oil - all of it - use the Fred Method.. after it is all drained pour a fresh quart of oil through it to get rid of what is left in the pan (you will see it push out all the dirty oil with it)

Refill and install a new filter

If that does not work, try to find something called valve medic.

Motor flush is good stuff - my 1991 Eldorado would always turn his oil black very quickly until I used that stuff one time. From then on the oil would come out after 3000 miles looking brand new. It had a body to it but still looked nearly new.

PS: I don't know why the motor would call for 10/40 but it sure ought to be quieter with the 40 than it would be with the 30

Going to try all this today....much thanks!

[KHE]

They had three engines in the Fleetwood that hear -- a 4.1 liter Buick V6, the Olds 350 Diesel V8, and the Cadillac 368 CID. The Cadillac V8 came in two versions, a 4-6-8 variable displacement, and a digital fuel injection (DFI) version for the Eldorado and as an option in other models. In the hearse, you would likely have the Cadillac engine with the four-barrel carburetor. At idle, a 4-6-8 will be running on four cylinders, with the valve train leaving the valves closed on the other four. Check your VIN. It will have the form

1G6AZ906XB9100001

The Z90 in the fifth, sixth and seventh digits are for a commercial chassis. You probably have something else such as F23; if so it was built as a Fleetwood limousine and converted to a hearse by an aftermarket builder. There may be other differences. The last six digits are the production serial number.

The eighth digit, a 6 in the example, is the engine code. The 6 means the Cadillac V8 with the 368 CID and a four-barrel carburetor, which is a 4-6-8 variable displacement engine. If it is a 9, you have the DFI Eldorado V8 with DFI, also a variable displacement engine. If it is an N, the car was shipped with the diesel V8. If it is a 4, it was shipped with a V6.

If, as seems likely, you have one of the variable displacement engines, you may need to clean up the apparatus that shifts the rocker arm fulcrums to fix the click. After you do that, keep the oil clean and it should go forever. It's possible that the variable displacement apparatus has been removed and all you have is a bad valve lifter.

The engine is the Cadillac V8 with the 368 CID and four barrel carb.

Thank you for your help!

You can get rid of that stupid 4-6-8 by disconnecting a wire,

I've heard that several times..

Do this - go and buy some motor flush it comes in a grey bottle and costs $3... put it in the oil and idle the motor for five good minutes do not put the motor under load or drive it with motor flush in it..

Drain the oil - all of it - use the Fred Method.. after it is all drained pour a fresh quart of oil through it to get rid of what is left in the pan (you will see it push out all the dirty oil with it)

Refill and install a new filter

If that does not work, try to find something called valve medic.

Motor flush is good stuff - my 1991 Eldorado would always turn his oil black very quickly until I used that stuff one time. From then on the oil would come out after 3000 miles looking brand new. It had a body to it but still looked nearly new.

PS: I don't know why the motor would call for 10/40 but it sure ought to be quieter with the 40 than it would be with the 30

Going to try all this today....much thanks!

Are you sure it is a 1981? a 368 with a 4-barrel carb was standard for 1980.

[nwtnan]

They had three engines in the Fleetwood that hear -- a 4.1 liter Buick V6, the Olds 350 Diesel V8, and the Cadillac 368 CID. The Cadillac V8 came in two versions, a 4-6-8 variable displacement, and a digital fuel injection (DFI) version for the Eldorado and as an option in other models. In the hearse, you would likely have the Cadillac engine with the four-barrel carburetor. At idle, a 4-6-8 will be running on four cylinders, with the valve train leaving the valves closed on the other four. Check your VIN. It will have the form

1G6AZ906XB9100001

The Z90 in the fifth, sixth and seventh digits are for a commercial chassis. You probably have something else such as F23; if so it was built as a Fleetwood limousine and converted to a hearse by an aftermarket builder. There may be other differences. The last six digits are the production serial number.

The eighth digit, a 6 in the example, is the engine code. The 6 means the Cadillac V8 with the 368 CID and a four-barrel carburetor, which is a 4-6-8 variable displacement engine. If it is a 9, you have the DFI Eldorado V8 with DFI, also a variable displacement engine. If it is an N, the car was shipped with the diesel V8. If it is a 4, it was shipped with a V6.

If, as seems likely, you have one of the variable displacement engines, you may need to clean up the apparatus that shifts the rocker arm fulcrums to fix the click. After you do that, keep the oil clean and it should go forever. It's possible that the variable displacement apparatus has been removed and all you have is a bad valve lifter.

The engine is the Cadillac V8 with the 368 CID and four barrel carb.

Thank you for your help!

You can get rid of that stupid 4-6-8 by disconnecting a wire,

I've heard that several times..

Do this - go and buy some motor flush it comes in a grey bottle and costs $3... put it in the oil and idle the motor for five good minutes do not put the motor under load or drive it with motor flush in it..

Drain the oil - all of it - use the Fred Method.. after it is all drained pour a fresh quart of oil through it to get rid of what is left in the pan (you will see it push out all the dirty oil with it)

Refill and install a new filter

If that does not work, try to find something called valve medic.

Motor flush is good stuff - my 1991 Eldorado would always turn his oil black very quickly until I used that stuff one time. From then on the oil would come out after 3000 miles looking brand new. It had a body to it but still looked nearly new.

PS: I don't know why the motor would call for 10/40 but it sure ought to be quieter with the 40 than it would be with the 30

Going to try all this today....much thanks!

Are you sure it is a 1981? a 368 with a 4-barrel carb was standard for 1980.

All the documentation I have says a 1981. Vin #1GEEZ9063B9132700

But what do I know about cars I am a female funeral director!

Just for the record tho.....I know more now about my hearse now then I did last week thanks to this wonderful group.....you don't know how much I appreciate it.

Our community is very isolated and parts labor is hard to come by. I tried going to our local auto supply store this morning and it is closed for 2 weeks for staff holidays.

[BodybyFisher]

There are many places on-line you can get parts:

http://www.car-parts.com (used)

http://www.cadauto.com (used)

http://www.gmotors.com

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/

http://www.rockauto.com

http://www.rareparts.com/index2.html (rare parts site)

Mike

[The Fred]

www.autozone.com

[Bruce Nunnally]

Standard Catalog of Cadillac suggests that the commercial chassis (only) still got a 4-bbl carb in 1981. Brake hp: 150 at 3800 rpm (!) torque 265 ft-lbs at 1600 rpm. That baby should be able to pull fairly well at idle.

Vin #1GEEZ9063B9132700 Info:

1-manufactured in the US

G GM

E hmm, this should be a '6' for Cadillac?

E Hmm, this should be a A or B for manual or automatic restraint

Z = Commercial chassis

90 = commercial chassis (no body)

6 = V8 368 4-bbl

3=check digit

B=1981

9=assembly plant (Detroit)

132700=assembly number, beginning at 10001 for Detroit. So the 32,700th car from the Detroit factory in 1981.

What company did the conversion into a hearse?

I would change all the fluids (oil, coolant, transmission) as with any car purchase, then would try to determine the source of the ticking sound. You can use a stethoscope (don't laugh) or a similar mechanic's ear type device to locate it.

I think TheFred's guess that it is lifter noise might be right, but I would see if fresh, clean oil of the appropriate weight helps first. I would avoid additives of any sort. Drain and refill, don't flush or backflush or allow others to do so.

[Cadillac Jim]

Vin #1GEEZ9063B9132700

1G: USA, GM

E: Division (this is interesting; 6 == Cadillac Division)

E: Restraint system (interesting; A == manual seat belts, or B == automatic seat belts)

Z90: Commercial chassis (no body)

6: V8, 368 CID, four-barrel carburetor

3: Check digit

B: 1981 model year

9: Assembled in Detroit

132700: serial number

The check digit is good for the VIN as given.

[nwtnan]

Standard Catalog of Cadillac suggests that the commercial chassis (only) still got a 4-bbl carb in 1981. Brake hp: 150 at 3800 rpm (!) torque 265 ft-lbs at 1600 rpm. That baby should be able to pull fairly well at idle.

Vin #1GEEZ9063B9132700 Info:

1-manufactured in the US

G GM

E hmm, this should be a '6' for Cadillac?

E Hmm, this should be a A or B for manual or automatic restraint

Z = Commercial chassis

90 = commercial chassis (no body)

6 = V8 368 4-bbl

3=check digit

B=1981

9=assembly plant (Detroit)

132700=assembly number, beginning at 10001 for Detroit. So the 32,700th car from the Detroit factory in 1981.

What company did the conversion into a hearse?

I would change all the fluids (oil, coolant, transmission) as with any car purchase, then would try to determine the source of the ticking sound. You can use a stethoscope (don't laugh) or a similar mechanic's ear type device to locate it.

I think TheFred's guess that it is lifter noise might be right, but I would see if fresh, clean oil of the appropriate weight helps first. I would avoid additives of any sort. Drain and refill, don't flush or backflush or allow others to do so.

Wow you guys are good!! The conversion was done by Superior.

Car has 71000 miles on it and mostly driven slow....lol.

I was able to get the oil today 10/40 semi synthetic as it was recommended for the cold winter coming. I bought a new oil filter and the lifter cleaner. I have a mechanic (sorta) coming over in the morning to do the oil change.

[nwtnan]

I was just wondering if maybe 10/40 oil will be too thick in the winter when it hits 35 below 0?? Any thoughts??

We do have long periods weeks on end with temps at -35!

[The Fred]

I was just wondering if maybe 10/40 oil will be too thick in the winter when it hits 35 below 0?? Any thoughts??

We do have long periods weeks on end with temps at -35!

I don't know if they make it or not but you would want 0/40 or 5/40

I personally would use 0/30 if they don't make what I recommended above

Once the motor warms up 40w is 40w but you need it to be able to pressure up when it is cold.. 10/40 I think will be real thick until it gets a little warm - thickened oil makes it very difficult to start the motor and it also takes longer for the oil to pressurize and it is sort of like running without oil for awhile (very bad)

I still don't know why that motor takes 10/40... my '79 with the 425 takes 10/30 or at least that is what I use without any problems even wide open over 120mph all night long many times

I don't remember what -35 is in degrees but I would assume that it would equal about zero degrees ?? If this is stored in the cold... get a block heater. That way when you go out and first start it the oil will be nice and flowable and you'll have easy starts, fast lubrication and even more importantly to a woman - almost instant heat in the cabin

With the block heater you won't have to worry about your oil thickening due to the cold but keep in mind that when you're out somewhere you might have the car sitting with the motor off out in the cold so use the oil that is thinner when cold any way

[KHE]

Standard Catalog of Cadillac suggests that the commercial chassis (only) still got a 4-bbl carb in 1981. Brake hp: 150 at 3800 rpm (!) torque 265 ft-lbs at 1600 rpm. That baby should be able to pull fairly well at idle.

Mystery solved! I didn't know that the '81 commercial chassis didn't have fuel injection. The V8-6-4 was only used in 1981 production vehicles because the HT-4100 engine was not ready for production. It did last through the 1985 model year in the commercial chassis though. The V8-6-4 was an engineering marvel in its day and was the basis for today's displacement on demand engines.

[nwtnan]

I was just wondering if maybe 10/40 oil will be too thick in the winter when it hits 35 below 0?? Any thoughts??

We do have long periods weeks on end with temps at -35!

I don't know if they make it or not but you would want 0/40 or 5/40

I personally would use 0/30 if they don't make what I recommended above

Once the motor warms up 40w is 40w but you need it to be able to pressure up when it is cold.. 10/40 I think will be real thick until it gets a little warm - thickened oil makes it very difficult to start the motor and it also takes longer for the oil to pressurize and it is sort of like running without oil for awhile (very bad)

I still don't know why that motor takes 10/40... my '79 with the 425 takes 10/30 or at least that is what I use without any problems even wide open over 120mph all night long many times

I don't remember what -35 is in degrees but I would assume that it would equal about zero degrees ?? If this is stored in the cold... get a block heater. That way when you go out and first start it the oil will be nice and flowable and you'll have easy starts, fast lubrication and even more importantly to a woman - almost instant heat in the cabin

With the block heater you won't have to worry about your oil thickening due to the cold but keep in mind that when you're out somewhere you might have the car sitting with the motor off out in the cold so use the oil that is thinner when cold any way

-35C is about -25F or around there. Once it hits -40 it is all the same.

I bought the 10/40 oil as that is what was recommend by a few people on the board, but I don't think they realized what the temp gets down to here in the NWT.

I do have a block heater on the car and the battery blanket will be installed before winter along with command start.

Good friend came over last night while I was polishing my hearse and told me the tic was not coming from the engine but sounded like it was an exhaust leak?

Oil is going to get done this morning as well as changing the other fluids and then the heavy duty mechanic I hired will have it at his shop for 2 weeks while I am on holidays and he can take care of any problems.

Cheers

[BodybyFisher]

There is no question that an exhaust leak could sound like a tick... It could be an exhaust manifold gasket leak, crack, or a leak in the down pipe connection.. Mike

[nwtnan]

So here is where I stand.......got out a small peice of hose and used it to listen to the engine.

(make shift stethascope)sp??

The noise is definatly not coming from the engine or the exhaust.

Changed the trannie fluid and the filter as the fluid smelled burnt. It just drove 1500 kms to get home and god knows how long it was changed before this.

Thought that might help......it didn't.......the noise is definately coming from the lower back of the engine or the torque converter area. The ticking is very prominent when the hose was placed in the torque converter area.

Any thoughts??