Super Charged

[NorthstarAJ]

Hey guy's I am installing a blower on my Northstar.

I am running my LS1 PCM on it and I am working with Lyndon at westers on a bunch of new stuff including Stock Northstars.

[Ed Hall]

Awesome!!!

Will something like this work on my 93 Northstar powered Allante? However, I have to be careful with the tranny because I heard that it has a unique 4T80-E since it is a non VJ4 car.

[joeb]

where are you mounting the blower housing? near the air cleaner with a belt driven drive shaft? i have seen that setup on other transverse motors since there is no room on the passenger side to stuff it in.

[Bruce Nunnally]

Very exciting. Good luck on the new project and please keep us posted.

[med]

Hey guy's I am installing a blower on my Northstar.

I am running my LS1 PCM on it and I am working with Lyndon at westers on a bunch of new stuff including Stock Northstars.

Unbelievably great news AJ! I think you might be the first in this regard! Keep us posted. I have been following this since your interest in the Shelby 4.0L.

[NorthstarAJ]

This was free to me!!!!

It needs a bearing and I ordered it already

[NorthstarAJ]

The outlet is adjustable

Turbine

Belt

Pulley side less pulley

[JasonA]

"Unfortunately", he's putting this on a Fiero, so packaging isn't the same as ours.

But fortunately, AJ might crack the code on the computer issues.

[TDK]

"Unfortunately", he's putting this on a Fiero, so packaging isn't the same as ours.

But fortunately, AJ might crack the code on the computer issues.

JasonA, et all,

Since AJxtcman is using a PCM for an LS1 (Chevy/GM small block), the computer code issue is a moot point, (the Caddy computer ain't there already). I believe sand rails, etc use a similar setup for ther Northstar transplants.

I'm certain he can (or already has on his web page), provide the info on how the Northstar was installed in the Fireo. Most Caddy owners probably would not install an LS1 PCM over the Northstar block, (and lose the multitude of the vehicle's functions).

By comparison, Marks99sts retains all the Caddy functions, albiet at about $12,000 cost at one point. Mark's car might not be a daily driver for most people or applicable to manufacturing because of the extensive modifications. For example, the aftercooler just behind the fasica might be a problem for most, but certainly Mark is well-aware of the issues.

Both of the above project's work and sucess (and even non-success) could lead in time to a comercial interface like a piggyback computer (and maybe that is what AJ and/or Mark are using already...). But then again, a Northstar Caddy is just not the optimum platform to get the best bang for your sheer performance buck.

I have a feeling that GM has already solved the Cadillac performance-market issue by offering a CTS-V, with all the deluxe Caddy trappings in a 4-door Corvette. The small-bloack GM/Chevy engine in this rig is not a Northstar, so it has already be cranked over 800hp (serious after-market mods) for several years. The STS might fade or merge with the CTS over time, (I'm surprised it has not already), and the DTS is just not the go-fast platform anyway.

All IMHO

[NorthstarAJ]

The Caddy code is cracked. I will be updating my tunes soon. 96 to 99 is all good. The 00 to 03 will be soon to follow. I have new help.

[Texas Jim]

The Caddy code is cracked. I will be updating my tunes soon. 96 to 99 is all good. The 00 to 03 will be soon to follow. I have new help.

I need an '06 tune.

[JasonA]

The STS might fade or merge with the CTS over time, (I'm surprised it has not already), and the DTS is just not the go-fast platform anyway.

It has. Cadillac has already announced with the '08 CTS that it will not continue with the STS platform. They may continue to produce it for a few more model years, I don't know. In my opinion, they ruined what the STS was all about when they redid it for 2005. I hope they don't "STS" the DTS in 2010 or whenever the replacement for the DTS arrives. The DTS remains the only new Cadillac I'd buy today. Large, comfortable, FWD, and Northstar-powered.

[NorthstarAJ]

The Caddy code is cracked. I will be updating my tunes soon. 96 to 99 is all good. The 00 to 03 will be soon to follow. I have new help.

I need an '06 tune.

06 has been out for years. I will let you know if I can do it.

[CadillacETC1997]

when were you planning on posting this on Cadillac Forum?!?!?

[OynxSTS]

The "discovery" that the North* ODBII computers were "hacked" was announced in late April of 2007... on a different Cadillac Forum. That's the good news.

Shortly after that there was the additional info that the speed limiter can also be defeated. More good news.

Several people put some money down and got new/reconditioned/reprogrammed/swappable ECMs for there cars with a "better" tune and no speed limiter.

That was the end of the good news.

Not to say that bad news followed... Just a total lack of facts.

Link to very long thread

If you actually have the stomach to read all 1900+ posts you will find mixed up in a mess of posts (which includes a discussion of how hot Ferris Bueller's Girlfriend was) was that a couple of guys bought new/reconditioned/reprogrammed/swappable ECMs and all of them "felt" the car went faster (yah! )... One went so far as to dyno his car only to discover that the new tune had lost power. (boo! )

Then the thread degenerated again... Lots of talk about the traction system and the stability system and how it is difficult to dyno these cars (bla bla bla)

Then the thread and performance stats turned to quarter mile numbers... Which unfortunately focused on the ET... As any tuner knows ET (elapsed time) is a terrible indicator of HP since it is also a function of traction... and this tune also seems to fiddle with the tranny shift points. When you look at the Trap Speeds (a much better indicator of max HP) posted they are all very consistent and very close to stock... Which would have one conclude that the car's aren't producing more power, they are just shifting sooner, harder, better.

As the thread draws near to 2000 posts it now appears that Westers Garage staff are stepping in to help out on this project and hopeful bring some documented results to the table

So what do we know?

1) It looks like we can now get PCM's without speed limiters for our cars.

2) It also looks like changing the shift patterns on these cars will help performance by a few 10th in the quarter

3) It also looks like new program does little (if anything) for power production.

4) Professional help is on the way

As GM (and one brave sole on this forum) as demonstrated the best way to get more power out of 4.6L is to add forced induction. So, with the North* hack do we know what the fuel table looks like? do we know what the timing table looks like? Are we in a position to accommodate something easy like 5 PSI of boost?

[NorthstarAJ]

.. One went so far as to dyno his car only to discover that the new tune had lost power. (boo! )

As GM (and one brave sole on this forum) as demonstrated the best way to get more power out of 4.6L is to add forced induction. So, with the North* hack do we know what the fuel table looks like? do we know what the timing table looks like? Are we in a position to accommodate something easy like 5 PSI of boost?

The car did not loose power on the dyno. You only know part of the story. I was on the phone with Code when he was at the dyno. The traction control was killing the performance.

I am headed to the DYNO THIS WEEKEND!

I am taking two or three car and about 10 different program!!!!!!!!!

I am taking my laptop and this new software!

are we on the same page now?

[BodybyFisher]

The "discovery" that the North* ODBII computers were "hacked" was announced in late April of 2007... on a different Cadillac Forum. That's the good news.

Shortly after that there was the additional info that the speed limiter can also be defeated. More good news.

Several people put some money down and got new/reconditioned/reprogrammed/swappable ECMs for there cars with a "better" tune and no speed limiter.

That was the end of the good news.

Not to say that bad news followed... Just a total lack of facts.

Link to very long thread

If you actually have the stomach to read all 1900+ posts you will find mixed up in a mess of posts (which includes a discussion of how hot Ferris Bueller's Girlfriend was) was that a couple of guys bought new/reconditioned/reprogrammed/swappable ECMs and all of them "felt" the car went faster (yah! )... One went so far as to dyno his car only to discover that the new tune had lost power. (boo! )

Then the thread degenerated again... Lots of talk about the traction system and the stability system and how it is difficult to dyno these cars (bla bla bla)

Then the thread and performance stats turned to quarter mile numbers... Which unfortunately focused on the ET... As any tuner knows ET (elapsed time) is a terrible indicator of HP since it is also a function of traction... and this tune also seems to fiddle with the tranny shift points. When you look at the Trap Speeds (a much better indicator of max HP) posted they are all very consistent and very close to stock... Which would have one conclude that the car's aren't producing more power, they are just shifting sooner, harder, better.

As the thread draws near to 2000 posts it now appears that Westers Garage staff are stepping in to help out on this project and hopeful bring some documented results to the table

So what do we know?

1) It looks like we can now get PCM's without speed limiters for our cars.

2) It also looks like changing the shift patterns on these cars will help performance by a few 10th in the quarter

3) It also looks like new program does little (if anything) for power production.

4) Professional help is on the way

As GM (and one brave sole on this forum) as demonstrated the best way to get more power out of 4.6L is to add forced induction. So, with the North* hack do we know what the fuel table looks like? do we know what the timing table looks like? Are we in a position to accommodate something easy like 5 PSI of boost?

Good Info and good background Greg thanks. If I recall, Mark was having problems modifying the air/fuel table

[OynxSTS]

The car did not loose power on the dyno. You only know part of the story. I was on the phone with Code when he was at the dyno. The traction control was killing the performance.

I am headed to the DYNO THIS WEEKEND!

I am taking two or three car and about 10 different program!!!!!!!!!

are we on the same page now?

Yes we are on the same page... Still no facts... And no proof... I want to believe its true...

The other thread was very clear... He put the car on the dyno with the stock ECM and made one number and put in the new ECM put the car back on the dyno and the car made less power. The Dyno didn't lie.. We then switch to the ol' butt dyno and everyone is still convinced their cars are "faster" all while producing stock like trap speeds.

That's when (as I noted above) the debate turned to questions as to whether the new tune confused the traction control/stability system... It seems too..

Coincidentally that's also the time when the focus changed to adapting an LS1 computer to the North* Which is probably a better idea since that PCM has been hacked for well over 5 years (and was hacked with the support of GM insiders/engineers) GM has been "blocking" a FWD N* hack at every turn.

Yes these are my opinions but I am trying to be factual...

Seriously, good luck at the Dyno, I would love to see some success in the North* "hack"

I'm also impressed and very supportive of your new "partnership" with Westers Garage...

These guys are known for "knowing" GM PCMs if your hack works they will promote it and help market it....

If it doesn't work... it will fade away.

[NorthstarAJ]

The car did not loose power on the dyno. You only know part of the story. I was on the phone with Code when he was at the dyno. The traction control was killing the performance.

I am headed to the DYNO THIS WEEKEND!

I am taking two or three car and about 10 different program!!!!!!!!!

are we on the same page now?

Yes we are on the same page... Still no facts... And no proof... I want to believe its true...

The other thread was very clear... He put the car on the dyno with the stock ECM and made one number and put in the new ECM put the car back on the dyno and the car made less power. The Dyno didn't lie.. We then switch to the ol' butt dyno and everyone is still convinced their cars are "faster" all while producing stock like trap speeds.

That's when (as I noted above) the debate turned to questions as to whether the new tune confused the traction control/stability system... It seems too..

Coincidentally that's also the time when the focus changed to adapting an LS1 computer to the North* Which is probably a better idea since that PCM has been hacked for well over 5 years (and was hacked with the support of GM insiders/engineers) GM has been "blocking" a FWD N* hack at every turn.

Yes these are my opinions but I am trying to be factual...

Seriously, good luck at the Dyno, I would love to see some success in the North* "hack"

I'm also impressed and very supportive of your new "partnership" with Westers Garage...

These guys are known for "knowing" GM PCMs if your hack works they will promote it and help market it....

If it doesn't work... it will fade away.

I don't want Westers to Promote this!

08-16-07, 09:34 PM Post #1113

There was definitely something wrong. There's no doubt in my mind. Yes the car feels like it's stronger especially in the low end, for me anyway.

Just the fact that I couldn't go faster than 60 mph says something is wrong and the engine was being managed by something. The odd thing is while this was happening the tach was around 5k or so, so why 5k at 60? It's like the engine was revving but it wasn't being transferred to the wheels.

The first time, I thought the dyno was just making resistance and the car couldn't handle it. The guy said that's not the case at all. Even on the good runs it took a long time to get through the RPM range and never went faster than 65 mph.

08-16-07, 08:38 PM post #1105

The first 3 runs yielded no valuable data as we couldn't get the car to rev at all. Once the car shifted into drive it basically laid down and would go over 50 - 60 MPH. We have no idea why. So those runs got scrapped. We took a break and talked about it. I called AJ and spoke with him about it. Seems that one possibly solution is to disconnect the ABS module. I didn't have time to do that as I was paying by the hr.

So the next run gave these results With the Volat box and AJ's PCM

At 92 degrees and 12% humidity we made 203.94 HP and 258.76 ft-lbs of torque. So now we're definitely sure something isn't koshur, but what.

I decided to shoot form the hip and swapped the PCM back to stock.

At 92 degrees and 12% humidity we made 235.54 HP and 279.19 ft-lbs of torque.

Now, the only other difference in those runs was the top was left off the CAI so we took another break and thought about it. Still making no sense I put AJ's PCM back in and ran with the top still off the CAI.

At 92 degrees and 12% humidity we made 212.31 HP and 271.01 ft-lbs of torque.

With all the good runs the HP and torque curves cross at 5250 RPM's. I don't know what that means but the guy said that was good.

So there you have it. After beating the crap out of the car I decided I didn't want to bother swapping the intakes. Sorry guys but time was running short and I made 3 or 4 worthless pulls which broke my heart.

If anyone finds this data useful or would just like to donate to the cost of the dyno time it would be helpful. It costs me $150 which I don't mind but I really didn't get done what I wanted to do.

I personally think AJ's computer runs better on the road and I think there was cause for skewed results here. I don't know what or why but the car just wouldn't run over 65 or so at about 5500 RPM's after that it just sat there

[NorthstarAJ]

The way I look at it the Red line (my PCM) is over 75 hp more at 34mph over the Green line (stock)

[NorthstarAJ]

Lets just say the stock PCM is 100 @ 34 mph Hmmm

This is another that went to a Dyno in Mad Town. The same Dyno I am headed to.

[NorthstarAJ]

This is another customer that had his Dyno'd in ST.louis

I have more on this guy, but I need to figure out the softare package he sent.

[OynxSTS]

You and I both know that on a chassis dyno there are lots of factors that impact "non peak" power ratings... And the only number that really counts is peak power.

For example, lets say on your tune you have the TCC lockup early at a lower speed (some old school Buick Grand National Chips did this). To the dyno, energy that would have been going into the torque converter slippage is now going to the dyno so the engine looks stronger even though its all "chassis efficiency".

I'm not arguing with you, your documented lower ETs shows that you are on to something... And there are some drive train efficiencies to be gained. But the consistent trap speeds point to no extra power. I hope that your chips work and this weekend Dyno flog supports this.

I'm also curious why the traction system on the stock PCM can "tolerate" a dyno run, but the hacked chip can't... The North* PCM/BCM is notorious for having all kinds of hidden backups, overrides, and defaults... One of these bit Marks turbo project in the butt... Are your dyno issues a symptom of things to come?

Why don't you want Webster to promote this? You licence the Hack to them.. They make money, you make money, we get chips and tunes backed by a "known" company who have worked out all of the bugs. Its called a win-win-win...